Knife crime - petition

I was thinking about starting a petition for the government, after watching Question Time last night, where one of the topics they discussed was knife crime...

I believe that those that are caught with knives, weapons with the intent to harm (under 21) should not go to prison, but should do National Service.

I found a petition already formed with the exact same view...

I reckon you guys will agree and get behind it too -
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/natservforyouth/

It makes sense, I just wish the powers that be would see sense too!

Peace lovin' tree huggin' hippy says..... no

Probably not a huge suprise there Trouble with national service ideas at the moment is that you're quite likely to get deployed. And deployed you stand a chance (thankfully still quite small but definitely significant) of coming back in a body bag or missing some limbs. And that then raises the penalty for any given crime from "X months/years in prison" to "death penalty". Which, you'll not be suprised to learn, also doesn't sit too well with peace lovin tree huggin free lovin hippies Secondly, sticking crims on active service does nothing for the safety, wellbeing, or moral of regular law abiding volunteers they're fighting alongside.

On the knife crime "epidemic" it's worth noting that if you remove London from the figures then knife crime is very rare - something like 40% of all assaults with knives are in London - ergo this isn't a "national epidemic" but rather an inner city problem affecting the capital. Teen on teen violence, guns and knives taken together, is actually pretty much static. These two bits make interesting reading - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...and_teens.html and http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._epidemic.html

The major problem in drawing up legislation to combat knife crime is that knives are just damn handy tools to have around. It's so hard to define what is and what isn't a reasonable requirement to carry one. Even excluding cooking I probably use one daily, whether it's getting through parcel tape or stripping wires. I keep a swiss army knife in the car glovebox and tend to keep one on the bike too. They're unlikely to be needed but it's not unimaginable that they'd be needed and in the past they have indeed come in handy.

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

On the knife crime "epidemic" it's worth noting that if you remove London from the figures then knife crime is very rare - something like 40% of all assaults with knives are in London - ergo this isn't a "national epidemic" but rather an inner city problem affecting the capital..

I am going to have to disagree with this statement, I am a youth worker, and I do not live nor work in London, I work in Southampton. The kids do carry knives in Southampton, although along with drugs and alcohol I have made it VERY clear to the YP who come to the club, that none of these will be tolerated, and that they should leave such items at home, outside...whatever...

They know the youth club is a safe haven, but it isn't outside, there are regular 'gang' related fights...

The government are saying zero tolerance to knives...therefore punishment is five years no parole. But on the other hand they are saying, reduce sentences because the prisons are full...what message does this then say to the youngsters...??

It say's they are likely to get off with CS. It is not a good system. There needs to be something else. A real deterrent.

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

Peace lovin' tree huggin' hippy says..... no

I'm not one of these, but I do agree.

On the knife crime "epidemic" it's worth noting that if you remove London from the figures then knife crime is very rare - something like 40% of all assaults with knives are in London - ergo this isn't a "national epidemic" but rather an inner city problem affecting the capital. Teen on teen violence, guns and knives taken together, is actually pretty much static. These two bits make interesting reading.

Most peeps on here know I'm

Other than locking up a lad a couple of months ago for having a knuckleduster, I haven't come across/heard of much of a "weapon culture" within my force area.

Runs off to touch the nearest peice of wood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm on a neighbourhood Policing team, so get loads of contact with teens, schools etc, and other than the local "village idiot", (every year at school has one), who is supposed to "carry", it's not very prevalent oop t'North.

Personally I feel that if the media keep reporting it as an epidemic then kids up here will start to do likewise. Why, they feel that everyone else does so they do likewise, it's seen as cool etc etc.

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

Peace lovin' tree huggin' hippy says..... no

Probably not a huge suprise there Trouble with national service ideas at the moment is that you're quite likely to get deployed. And deployed you stand a chance (thankfully still quite small but definitely significant) of coming back in a body bag or missing some limbs. And that then raises the penalty for any given crime from "X months/years in prison" to "death penalty". Which, you'll not be suprised to learn, also doesn't sit too well with peace lovin tree huggin free lovin hippies Secondly, sticking crims on active service does nothing for the safety, wellbeing, or moral of regular law abiding volunteers they're fighting alongside.

On the knife crime "epidemic" it's worth noting that if you remove London from the figures then knife crime is very rare - something like 40% of all assaults with knives are in London - ergo this isn't a "national epidemic" but rather an inner city problem affecting the capital. Teen on teen violence, guns and knives taken together, is actually pretty much static. These two bits make interesting reading - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...and_teens.html and http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._epidemic.html

The major problem in drawing up legislation to combat knife crime is that knives are just damn handy tools to have around. It's so hard to define what is and what isn't a reasonable requirement to carry one. Even excluding cooking I probably use one daily, whether it's getting through parcel tape or stripping wires. I keep a swiss army knife in the car glovebox and tend to keep one on the bike too. They're unlikely to be needed but it's not unimaginable that they'd be needed and in the past they have indeed come in handy.

Minimatt - I'm tempted really tempted.............

Originally Posted by grh1904

Personally I feel that if the media keep reporting it as an epidemic then kids up here will start to do likewise. Why, they feel that everyone else does so they do likewise, it's seen as cool etc etc.

the problem is the media are happy to report the doom and gloom and the problem, but never ever report the times when people are dealt with or caught, so everyone thinks they are 'getting away with it'.

[timwilky]

How the hell do you prove/disprove that a knife is not being carried for a reasonable reason. I used a knife almost daily at work. I lived in my jacket pocket so I always had it when needed. This day and age, I would have to think twice.

I know of pipe smokers who use a knife all the time to clean out the bowl of their pipe, is it reasonable for them to carry their little knives?.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by timwilky

How the hell do you prove/disprove that a knife is not being carried for a reasonable reason. I used a knife almost daily at work. I lived in my jacket pocket so I always had it when needed. This day and age, I would have to think twice.

I know of pipe smokers who use a knife all the time to clean out the bowl of their pipe, is it reasonable for them to carry their little knives?.

I used to carry 2x Leatherman Multi-tools and a Leatherman lock-knife as well as all the different bits for the drivers on the multi-tools and knife.

Used to be really useful day-to-day @ work when I was in and out of server rooms (the knife made a better screwdriver than the multi-tools.)

Dont dare carry them now, as "only criminals carry knives"

Its all becoming "thoughtcrime".

The police are being tasked to preventing crime, rather than dealign with it after its happened.

We dont need all these "in case of" laws, just the old ones (assult with a deadly weapon - type) to be enforced properly.

I dont think I should be worried about carrying a knife in my pocket/bag, the police should only be interested if I am waving about, am about to stick it on someone, or have actually done so.

Nice idea, but it's still nothing more than weak attempt to find cure for a symptom instead of the cause.

Fact of the matter is there are an increasing number of disaffected kids roaming the streets with no fear of the law because they feel they have nothing to lose. They feel this way because they think the world dispises them. Ok that might not be too far from the mark for some of the little scrotes, but we shouldn't tell them that, otherwise it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Things like the mosquito sound device show how screwed a society we are more than the issue of knife crime imo.

Damn krhall - I thought you were winding up for a good fight then the first thing you say I agree with you completely!

Clanger, can't disagree with the facts I'm afraid - although my choice of "very rare" was definitely the wrong phrase and I'd have been better off sticking purely to the facts. I certainly can't say that knife crime only goes on in London (and didn't), and the only facts we've got to hand of any relevance are hospital admissions as a result of an assault with a sharp object (very important to seperate these out because certain media circles have been reporting hospital admissions due to injury from a sharp object - far more people cut themselves). Obviously these figures do nothing to indicate how many kids nationwide are carrying knives if not using them. What we can say however is that 40% of those who do use them do so in London.