Mini Twin Police!!

Hi everyone,
I suppose all you able bodied racers will be off to East Fortune this weekend-i'm not at all jealous!!

So-time to throw a moggie amongst some pidgeons-maybe??

I was at the NEMCRC meeting at Croft last weekend-spectating. I was a little concerned about the fact that there was only 1 Curvy in the Minitwin field as i'm in no position to buy an injection. While walking round the paddock there were quite a lot of people talking about horsepower etc...
Looking at the Saturday results there were several "Modified" bikes that were beaten by "standard" bikes!

So-I think as far as the North East club is concerned, I'd like to start off a discussion about the MiniTwin class and the supposed 72 bhp limit.

First and foremost-the reason I chose MiniTwins is my limited cash funding, and I liked the idea of racing motorbikes and not chequebooks!!
So finding a class where the horsepower is limited was very appealing!

This week I got in touch with the MiniTwin Rider Rep at Bemsee and discussed how they "police" there class. She explained they have there own Dyno and the first three bikes in every race plus several random others are Dyno'd to ensure no "shenanigans"!

So now the crux....
we at the North East club dont have a dyno...So how can we ensure that everyone is on a level playing field as far as horsepower is concerned??

And yes-I know that it isn't just horsepower that leads to a good lap time!!

But the next time-if ever, that someone leaves me for dead out of a corner or blasts past me on a straight-(sound familiar to anyone?) at least the devil on my shoulder wont be shouting-what's he/she been doing we're all supposed to be limited to 72 brake!!

Lastly-this post is in no way aimed at anyone in MiniTwin racing-I just think we'd all be a lot happier if things were a bit more regulated!!

Happy Racing

TC 252

Too true Tony!
Ive glad you have the balls to raise this issue, Im tired of getting spanked in a straight line by what is meant to be equally powered machines, yes my body mass may have an infeluence but not to see supposed minitwins doing sub 1:36 Croft laptimes. And yes seeing minitwins faster than acknowledged lightweight 650 vtwins.
If everyone agrees, I would with pleasure contribute to the hire of a mobile Dyno at our next race meet!

A dyno at north east and Melville meetings is well overdue. There was one for one meeting a couple of years ago but it was never seen again. Id happily pay a bit extra to cover it's cost.
Be prepared to be disappointed though. The vast majority of people are playing by the rules. Speed down the straight is dictated by your speed through the preceding corner. And you can't point the finger at lap times either. When the dyno was there, someone with a 68hp carby was doing 1.32's. But I agree it would stop people pointing fingers and get on with racing.

Originally Posted by crisis95

Speed down the straight is dictated by your speed through the preceding corner. .

i agree but that is not always the case, u know what i mean, Im not an idiot.
The point Tony has started here is, that we SHOULd as you put it "get on with racing", as opposed to look how fast my bike is!

Bemsee do indeed use their dyno rigorously. We have been tested three times so far this season after only three rounds but that is what we want. We have also had our bike inspected for irregularities in the airbox, throttle butterflys, air solenoid sytem and fuel. Our rad has been questioned and we have had protracted discussions with scroots about ram air systems.
The bike is perfectly legal and each time its dyno'd and checked we know what it is turning out and that our front places are being honestly earned, which feels good enough.

The more checks you can get for your club the better.

coxxy

Sam, do bemsee own the dyno or is it hired or provided by a sponsor?
I'm not racing north east this year but I would like to see the Scottish minitwin scene try and take enforcement of regs a bit more seriously. It's starting to take over from the 400's , a decent 21 bike field for east fortune this weekend so it's big enough to justify some enforcement.
Mike- I'm sure you're not an idiot mate, I'm in agreement with you and Tony. I'm just making the point that when the 72hp limit is enforced people will still pass you down the straight and achieve lap times that make you scratch your head and wonder how the **** did they do that?

Originally Posted by crisis95

Mike- I'm sure you're not an idiot mate, I'm in agreement with you and Tony. I'm just making the point that when the 72hp limit is enforced people will still pass you down the straight and achieve lap times that make you scratch your head and wonder how the **** did they do that?

To explain my rebuff is as follows,
every lap at the weekend i would get on the gas early throught the chicane, sling shot past other minitwins only for them to then accelerate away along the back straight, not just pull away slightly but **** off from view! I could name names on here of lads racing on what I know are modified sv's as minitwins.
I accept the fact im no Valentino Rossi and yes other lads have more talent, I understand corner exit speed can then dictater the speed on the next straight, we have all got it right and indeed wrong on the same corner sometimes and seen the difference it makes. Tony and I are making a valid comment about pure straight line speed.

Getting a corner right, passing people in the corner or even catching them around the corner only for them then to pull sharply away is NOT playing fair.
My personal view is next year it might be worth an extra tank of diesel in the van to go and RACE with others on a level playing field.
Thats all we want in the northeast.
If people want to modify their power then let them be man enough as other have to sign up to the Lightweights.
Please this isnt an attack on yourself as ive seen how smooth you are, but its about time people got off the fence over this issue!
I think we could end off with a bad name for ourselves !!!

Originally Posted by crisis95

Sam, do bemsee own the dyno or is it hired or provided by a sponsor?
I'm not racing north east this year but I would like to see the Scottish minitwin scene try and take enforcement of regs a bit more seriously. It's starting to take over from the 400's , a decent 21 bike field for east fortune this weekend so it's big enough to justify some enforcement.
Mike- I'm sure you're not an idiot mate, I'm in agreement with you and Tony. I'm just making the point that when the 72hp limit is enforced people will still pass you down the straight and achieve lap times that make you scratch your head and wonder how the **** did they do that?

Yes Bemsee own their own dyno and use it at every meeting. On the power front we know of several minitwin engines being modified down here for use elsewhere - they wouldnt pass the Bemsee power tests though.
On the drive front, gearing springs to mind as we have found for certain circuits it matters more than we had imagined in the past - the more corners, the better 14:44/45 works for us.

One of the biggest problems in the class is that people feel the need to cheat to gain some kind of advantage but also others feel the need to cry foul when they are beaten. I totally understand that nagging doubt that comes in to your mind when you are overtaken but there are plenty of reasons why a bike should be able to drive past people even from something as simple as different gearing.

On the other hand there are also plenty of people riding bikes that they think are well set up but they have actually been shortchanged, particularly if it is a carb'd bike and very susceptible to engine temperature. Just because it has been on a dyno and was fuelling perfectly when just about warmed up it doesn't follow that it will still be fuelling well once the engine has been run during a race.

Carb'd bikes get tired. The inlet rubbers in the carbs do need replacing as they get weak with age and can be worth a couple of hp. Repacking your exhausts can give you back a couple of hp. A different model of exhaust can be worth several hp more than the next bike.

A fuel injected SV650 doesn't need a Power Commander as the best fuelling adjustment comes from adjusting the stock ECU using a Teka or Yoshi box. A good air filter and a good exhaust are all that is required. We used to use BMC Race filter and M4 or Leo Vince exhausts. I think Arata are supposed to be good also but have never used them.

For a carb'd bike most of the above holds true. A BMC Race RS filter works well and JHS Racing sell a dynojet kit that I used to fit (165 main jets if I recall) and, assuming it was fitted correctly, didn't even need a dyno to be confident that it was making optimum power.

At the end of the day do you think a bike with 70 hp will be hopelessly outclassed by a bike with 74 hp? Unlikely and the best advice is to not worry about it and focus on getting your own machine set up well and then learn to ride it the bets you can.

I am sure if you want to weed out a few people bending the rules then a dyno at an event will certainly help but a few manual inspections, even ones you can organise yourselves, won't hurt.

Originally Posted by Mike1234

At the end of the day do you think a bike with 70 hp will be hopelessly outclassed by a bike with 74 hp? Unlikely and the best advice is to not worry about it and focus on getting your own machine set up well and then learn to ride it the bets you can.

Mike/and others,
please cease with the obvious, my bike (and tonys carby) has the correct gearing, which is changes to suit each track, it has a healthy engine, filter n full system, also has a PC dyno'd to give perfect fueling.
RIdden by lads who can ride.
This issue Tony started is releavent and not simply dismissed as a RIDER/GEARING/SLIGHT TUNING issue!!!