Stolen/recovered/purchase

Are there any "orgers" that can advise on the purchase of a stolen and recovered bike, that is up for sale (not on here)
Are there any pifalls to be aware of be'sides the normal security and finance checks. I gather the bike I have an interest in was found in a lock up storage after 18 months??

JOHN

[Red Herring]

Just make sure it has actually been "recovered". I have a stolen/recovered bike which has no engine or frame numbers as a result. I also have a receipt for it from the person I bought it from, whose name was on the V5, and a copy of the police crime report that details the bikes theft and it's subsequent recovery. Make sure you have enough information to confirm the history.

Thanks RH, have just been doing further "digging", talked to his close neighbour and found out he is awaiting a court appearance in respect to the bike.
Nice feeling when someone can be so easily tripped up shame the chap is not aware of his non uniformed heighbour.

Just found a newr bike though from a very old friend Street Triple.

[timwilky]

I and many of my family have quite a few stolen/recovered vehicles. It has never been an issue. Although ours have always come direct from the insurance company and not through a third party.

We have had on occasion visits from the plod to establish the identity, fun when we have reinstated defaced IDs. So the stamps we have put on match the V5 etc. But obviously restamps. I have known bolshy coppers to start getting twitchy and muttering of ringing.

Tim, do you like dhags?

[timwilky]

Not funny. I was part of the defence for a pikey plant dealer who was locked up for near 18 months on remand accused of dealing in stolen plant.

There was no evidence against him, apart from all his trades were in cash, he kept little records and where I came in was because of his ownership of stamps. It was alledged that only someone wanting to disguise ownership would possess stamps. We (The family business) had sold recovered plant on behalf of the insurance companies to him. Requiring he reinstate all defaced stamps. Therefore the circumstantial evidence of stamp ownership was rejected. As was the fact he didn't keep any transaction records as he was illiterate. And since when has trading for cash as you don't have a bank account been a crime?

After the case was dismissed I was told he was launching a private action against his local police and the CPS for a malicious prosecution. He had been on remand for so long that his business had collapsed. The police had seized and were refusing to return his stock etc. He was being required to prove ownership. Rather than the police proving he did not own the plant.

[Red Herring]

Tim, just as a matter of interest how did your customer keep on top of his accounts for tax purposes? I appreciate he is illiterate but that's no excuse. He just has to keep all his receipts and invoices (as no doubt provided by you when you sold him something) and present them to his account/book keeper.

I do appreciate that the changes in legislation around establishing/proving ownership have made it harder for some, and easier for the police, but changes generally come about due to a need and if the need hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened. The people most likely to suffer are those who dabble or who make a one off "bad" transaction. Professionals, such as your customer who deals in such items on a daily business, should have been well sighted on what is required of them.

The police they need to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" to get a conviction, where on a civil case bought against them by a defendant the standard is the "balance of probabilities". It's a fine line between them, but one various individuals, such as your customer for example, seek to exploit.

[timwilky]

Firstly I don't think he was looking to exploit anything. Simply his business had been destroyed. It was alleged that he had been turning over in excess of 2 million a year for what was essentially a 1 man business. I am sure his tax affairs were fictional.

As I said he was a pikey. I think this was the reason for the remand. If he could have proven hard ties to property or an area he would no doubt had been bailed. He had no ownership of anything. The land he stored his plant on etc was "Family" property.

We are getting away from the original post however. The gist of my posts were to say that there is no problem with stolen/recovered vehicles so long as you have a paper trail. The big problem can be that in returning a defaced identity to original, it can look like vehicle is now a "ringer" made to fit a V5.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by timwilky

....

We are getting away from the original post however. The gist of my posts were to say that there is no problem with stolen/recovered vehicles so long as you have a paper trail. The big problem can be that in returning a defaced identity to original, it can look like vehicle is now a "ringer" made to fit a V5.

Oh, right. I must have missed that bit amongst all the digs at the police.

Provided you have a paper trail then restoring a defaced identity is actually quite easy. All you need to do is present the vehicle for inspection by your local police examiner (arrange an appointment) and they will check it really is the one you claim it to be. If you do re-stamp the chassis number you should always do it next to, and not over the top off, the original defaced one. Once satisfied the police will issue a unique police reference number which they will attach to the bike (normally a sticker) and these details will be added to the PNC (Police National Computer) so that should you be subsequently stopped the vehicle identity can be confirmed.