9/11 what really happened?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59923762628848

These folk know ^^^^^^^^^

What do you think?

They do ask alot of questions, which are pretty straight forward and no one is interested in answering them.

I wouldn't be too surprised if it were true.

[Stingo]

Just finished watching it.... as they say - unanswered questions everywhere.


Little bit scarey. Suppose the big question has to be 'Why?'

[Spiderman]

I must say that Loose Change has to be one of the best documentaries about 9/11 ive seen so far.

The best parts for me are that its made by young american kids and that they dont pretend to have an answer at all, just lots of questions and many contradictory answers from those who are supposed to have been in charge at the time.

WHY? Simply put it gave them cart blanche to pass dictatoral new laws over their own citizens and spread their corrupt idea of "democracy" around the world.

Oil, money, power, militarty occupations of other countries. Its waht America has always aspired to being... in charge of the rest of the world.

For those of you who have not watched this, do so. Its over 1h20mins of the most interesting stuff you'll ever see. And it helps to shut up those people who say "Those who dont believe the official line are just stupid conspiracy theorists" Watch this and i'm sure you will look at the whole issue from a slighlty diffrent perspective than you did before.

What really happened?

2 planes flew into the WTC. One crashed into the Pentagon.

I fail to see how anyone could think otherwise since the second WTC plane was shown live on tv.

The problem with conspiracy theorists is they never want to believe anything that suggests there wasnt a conspiracy. No matter how many engineers state the steel frames couldnt take the heat from the fires or the impact, no, it has to be the government/missiles/bombs/pre planted TNT.

But one thing the conspiracy theorists dont realise is that by not believing what the rest of us do and think theres a conspiracy, theyre actually putting more faith in the capability of the Bush administration than I do.

Frankly, I dont think there is any conspiracy there other than Al Quaeda finished off what they tried to do with the bombs in the car park. I simply do not believe the Bush administration/CIA is actually THAT competent to implement something like this. :P

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Oil, money, power, militarty occupations of other countries. Its waht America has always aspired to being... in charge of the rest of the world.

It's not fashionable to say so in Blair's Britain, but I so agree with you!

Any second year student of history will know that when the USA went into Grand Isolationism in the period 1920 to 1939, it was carefully designed to take their trade away and thus weaken it's enemies. Then, by carefully selecting the right time to join in World War Two, they got the Russians to expend most of their manpower in beating the Germans. Sure, it cost them a few ships and tanks, and a few kids from Kansas, but not that much.

If the Brits hadn't been so stupid as to let Churchill mortgage most of their lands and wealth to get food, oil and munitions from the Yanks - which will only be paid off this year - they could have allied first with Germany, or perhaps with Russia and then there would have been a united Europe ruling most of the world in a far more benign way. Of course, with the Germans or Russians, there would have been a few casualties - like Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, sick people, intellectuals - but that would have happened anyway. And we certainly don't know the truth of the American concentration camps.

Originally Posted by M.Ockx

Any second year student of history will know that when the USA went into Grand Isolationism in the period 1920 to 1939, it was carefully designed to take their trade away and thus weaken it's enemies. Then, by carefully selecting the right time to join in World War Two, they got the Russians to expend most of their manpower in beating the Germans. Sure, it cost them a few ships and tanks, and a few kids from Kansas, but not that much.

How convenient to forget the US was providing supplies and help to the UK before the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour drew them into the conflict. Nice to see you put that as the US "carefully selecting the right time to join in"

If the Brits hadn't been so stupid as to let Churchill mortgage most of their lands and wealth to get food, oil and munitions from the Yanks - which will only be paid off this year - they could have allied first with Germany, or perhaps with Russia and then there would have been a united Europe ruling most of the world in a far more benign way. Of course, with the Germans or Russians, there would have been a few casualties - like Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, sick people, intellectuals - but that would have happened anyway. And we certainly don't know the truth of the American concentration camps.

Are you seriously suggesting we should have allied with the Nazis?

And do you seriously consider the millions of Jews, Poles, Czechs and other people the Nazis murdered as "a few casualties"?

And if you have any idea about UK history you would know that one of our good features has been being a tolerant country. Not that we havent had our moments where we have shown some extreme intolerance to those fleeing persecution be it from the Catholic Church or the Nazis but one thing we have rarely done is murder people the way the Nazis did.

And if you are even remotely suggesting that the war would have killed as many people as the Nazis did in the concentration camps with the "it would have happened anyway" then I have to say thats not an absolute certainty or a given in any way shape or form.

Crikey Ma'am...no offence meant. I was just agreeing with Spiderman that the Americans have only ever wanted to rule the world; and suggesting that the Brits could have stopped it with an alliance with the Russians or someone. I mean, you weren't going to do it on your own were you? And the French had been invaded - even though Petain was lining the French nest, so to speak.

I wasn't going to post a reply to this as I don't want to part of somthing that will probably degrade into name calling and bad feeling, but hey here I am.

Lynw - Have you actually watched the film ? I was of a similar opinion to yourself about 9/11 until I watched this, now I'm not so sure.

Anyone who has not watched this I strongly urge you to do so. I'm not saying I believe all of it, but theres enough there to make me want to look a little bit closer.

Just for the record, the film states that it was a B52 that hit the Empire State building in 1945. This is incorrect it was a B25, a much smaller, slower, propeller aircraft.
(The B52 didn't make its first flight until 1952.)

Originally Posted by M.Ockx

Crikey Ma'am...no offence meant. I was just agreeing with Spiderman that the Americans have only ever wanted to rule the world; and suggesting that the Brits could have stopped it with an alliance with the Russians or someone. I mean, you weren't going to do it on your own were you? And the French had been invaded - even though Petain was lining the French nest, so to speak.

None taken. Was just kind of shocked to read a suggestion we should have allied with the Nazis.

Bad enough to find out at the end of the war the full scale of the atrocities in the concentration camp. Worse to have a weak alliance with Stalin who was as guilty for the murder of millions as the Nazis were.

The British dont have a particularly good record for our treatment of settled immigrants during the war, interning in camps people who were settled here for most of their lives and deporting them as "fifth columnists" based on nothing more than scare mongering with no actual evidence. But despite several instances of appalling and down right shocking treatment, we came nowhere close to the pogroms of old or the concentration camps.

I think had Japan not bombed the US then they wouldnt have been kicked into the world stage and not increased their desire to "police" the world. Fundamentally the problem with US foreign policy is the continual shifting viewpoints. We've gone from concilatory policy with Clinton to a more agressive policy with Bush. I truly believe had the democrats not lost with the Florida vote rigging scandal, 9/11 would never have happened.

Thats not to say Al Quaeda werent being pursued by the FBI or other US agencies under Clinton, but the reasons for their opposition were not as strong as they have become under the Bush administration.

Tricky, I have watched the film. Ive watched quite a few of them tbh. I really dont have time for the conspiracy theories which is why I probably wont change my viewpoint. Equally I appreciate those who want to believe them will accept any opinion, whether it has any basis in fact or not, that says otherwise.

End of May I was in Scotland and was watching a program on the Da Vinci code. 3 people went around Europe to do their own investigation into whether it was true or not with a psychologist predicting what they would do. As he said about the woman that went there with her mind made up it was true, no matter how much evidence was put before her to show it was a novel and had no basis in fact she would not see it. She only saw people putting forward "establishment lies" rather than accept its a story. The ultimate was a professor of history/english stating the "Sang Greal" or royal blood which has been linked to the Grail and used in the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail was a spelling mistake by a 13th Century English Knight. The words didnt exist in ancient French. Yet she still came back with "but the grail still could have been the descendants of Jesus".

I see conspiracy theorists as the same. They wont accept a simple fact Al Quaeda flew planes into a building because of an extreme opposition to US foreign policy. It has to be a conspiracy of government doing bad things to its own people despite the fact there really is no factual evidence to say otherwise.

That isnt to say I always believe what the press say or what the US governmentsay, we all know theres spin involved. But I simply do not believe the US administration is as competent to do all the things the conspiracy theorists suggest.