F1 Racing Thread [Archive] - Page 8 - SV650.org

sinbad

15-03-10, 02:19 PM

I think F1 should be the cutting edge of car technology, but with the aero and brakes they currently have you will always struggle to get exciting overtaking. Narrower tyres, less aero, and more restricted brakes would appear to be the way forward, but what do I know?

Certainly the redesign of the cars for 09 (big front wing, small rear wing, removal of appendages etc) never had the promised effect and the problem of "dirty air" was, and still is, as big as it ever has been. The reliance on aerodynamics, on downforce, is a big issue if what you want from F1 is a group of cars nose-to-tail - it just won't happen.

Everyone knows that the closest racing series' are the ones with complete dependence on mechanical grip and no aero, bikes are close for this reason. It's easy to say, get rid of all the downforce, but the laptimes are what define F1 as the "premier class", and without the huge levels of downforce it would be near impossible to maintain anywhere near the laptimes, regardless of how fat the tyres were or how powerful the engines are.

I'm sure there'd be a lot of interested people if someone launched an international single-seater series with big power, big tyres, no driver aids and no downforce, though. Trouble is it couldn't work as an F1 "feeder series", because the cars would be so different.

At any rate, I'm hoping the next few races are a bit more exciting, but overtaking in the pit stops was still more exciting than no overtaking at all.

Stig

15-03-10, 02:40 PM

It wouldn't work because it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Too dangerous.

sinbad

15-03-10, 02:58 PM

It wouldn't work because it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Too dangerous.

Way slower corner speeds than F1 would be too dangerous? I'm not sure what you mean, unless you're picturing something in your head which is similar to a '67 GP car and drivers with goggles on.

Stig

15-03-10, 03:23 PM

I'm sure there'd be a lot of interested people if someone launched an international single-seater series with big power, big tyres, no driver aids and no downforce, though. Trouble is it couldn't work as an F1 "feeder series", because the cars would be so different.

Big power and tyres. Been there before. The death of Ayrton Senna and Roland Razenburger was the end to that. There will always be rules and regulations to tame the power and slow the cars in corners. Apart from that the cars would have zero handling so it would be a case of squirt it down the straights and nurse it round the corners. Not really racing is it. Fact of the matter is cars have to have downforce to work. Period.

ThEGr33k

15-03-10, 03:40 PM

More excitement in this lap than a whole F1 race? Oh yes :D (probably helped by the Italian commentators :))

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Davadvice

15-03-10, 04:16 PM

got to say i was almost falling asleep yesterday trying to watch it then vitel had a exhaust issue and thought it would get a bit better. was very dissapointed to say the least. I was watching the Gp2 aisia series a couple of weeks aga and have to say it was much better.

shumy's back and it's back to the bad old days of prosession.

hope they make some changes soon.

ThEGr33k

15-03-10, 04:19 PM

sinbad

15-03-10, 04:38 PM

Big power and tyres. Been there before. The death of Ayrton Senna and Roland Razenburger was the end to that. There will always be rules and regulations to tame the power and slow the cars in corners. Apart from that the cars would have zero handling so it would be a case of squirt it down the straights and nurse it round the corners. Not really racing is it. Fact of the matter is cars have to have downforce to work. Period.

No they don't. Senna's death wasn't because of the size of the tyres, it was because cars with ground effect aerodynamics and big wings are so prone to bottoming out if the pressure ever drops in those tyres. It certainly had nothing to do with the power of the engine either.

There have been more rules changes to reduce dangerous levels of downforce than just about anything else. When a car with big downforce spins in a fast corner, it's going very quickly. This is inherently much more dangerous than a spin in a car which has been slowed to a much lower speed before the corner. You don't think bike racing would be safer if cornering speeds were somehow increased by 50% do you?

The idea that high performance and non-aero dependant cornering isn't "really racing" or that cars don't work without downforce either suggests that you're ignorant, or that you set off along a course of argument with me that you think a sweeping statement like that will somehow support. Period?

fizzwheel

15-03-10, 04:45 PM

There have been more rules changes to reduce dangerous levels of downforce than just about anything else.

Agreed and the engineers always find clever ways to get it all back again by the end of the year, which makes the whole thing pointless.

Downforce is part of F1, but the fact that the cars still cant seem to follow each other closely in order to get near enough to make an overtake is still why we end up with processional races.

Thing is I can remember plenty of boring processional races in the past as well as the present. its all to easy to look back through rose tinted specs. I think the other problem is that the newer tracks are all generic and sanistised...

I remember when refuelling was banned in the past and it never seems that boring. I am wandering if the teams were over cautious with their fuel / tyre strategy. First race of the year, get some points in the bag as it were...

Filipe M.

15-03-10, 04:48 PM

Thing is I can remember plenty of boring processional races in the past as well as the present. its all to easy to look back through rose tinted specs. I think the other problem is that the newer tracks are all generic and sanistised...

Bring back the Nordschleife! ;)

Thingus

15-03-10, 11:33 PM

I think the safety thing has gone far enough, unless you're that poor kid who had a tyre land on his head then you're pretty much safe as can be in an open wheeled open cockpit racer. Sacrificing any more speed now for the sake of another what if... i dunno, it's hardly a one way argument is it.

As for money saving, it's taking the ****. When they reach their goal of each F1 team costing back pocket change to set up and cheaper than a banger race to take part in, we'll have more crap teams at the back making a two tier grid, getting lapped and not making it through quali, which i thought we got rid of last season.

Schumacher's got back moaning again, which i'm surprised to see nobody's saying it's an excuse for losing :p but he's right ain't he.
Wasn't the only driver complaining about it either.

They can't change the rules that much mid-season can they? If this goes on for another 2 or 3 races then it'll surely affect viewing figures and revenue?

Stig

16-03-10, 08:19 AM

No they don't. Senna's death wasn't because of the size of the tyres, it was because cars with ground effect aerodynamics and big wings are so prone to bottoming out if the pressure ever drops in those tyres. It certainly had nothing to do with the power of the engine either.

There have been more rules changes to reduce dangerous levels of downforce than just about anything else. When a car with big downforce spins in a fast corner, it's going very quickly. This is inherently much more dangerous than a spin in a car which has been slowed to a much lower speed before the corner. You don't think bike racing would be safer if cornering speeds were somehow increased by 50% do you?

The idea that high performance and non-aero dependant cornering isn't "really racing" or that cars don't work without downforce either suggests that you're ignorant, or that you set off along a course of argument with me that you think a sweeping statement like that will somehow support. Period?

Thanks for the suggestion I am ignorant. Comments like that are always welcome. NOT.

fizzwheel

16-03-10, 08:32 AM

They can't change the rules that much mid-season can they? If this goes on for another 2 or 3 races then it'll surely affect viewing figures and revenue?

I dont think no without all the teams agreeing ( if there is a concorde agreement in place not sure if they resigned it )

TBH the first few fly away races have a tendancy to be boring. Its the nature of the circuits first race of the year kinda thing. I think we were lucky with how the early part of last year panned out and thats why it seems so dull at the moment also.

Be alot better when they get back into Europe and on some proper tracks.

sinbad

16-03-10, 09:32 AM

Thanks for the suggestion I am ignorant. Comments like that are always welcome. NOT.

Don't state your uninformed opinion as fact then. I'm not talking about taking an F1 car and chainsawing the wings off it. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to post in an "I'm right you're wrong stop talking now" manner if you're not prepared for someone to respond to that.

simesb

16-03-10, 10:02 AM

No they don't. Senna's death wasn't because of the size of the tyres, it was because cars with ground effect aerodynamics and big wings are so prone to bottoming out if the pressure ever drops in those tyres. It certainly had nothing to do with the power of the engine either.

Actually, the cause of the crash has never been officially concluded, but tyre pressures have been implicated and dismissed. Also worth noting that ground effect cars had been banned 10 years earlier (not to say that cars have no ground effect, but the flat bottoms were mandated)

The other death the same weekend, Roland Ratzenberger, was when the front wing became detached under load (after being damaged during an off) and became stuck under the car.

F1 is a sport where risk is inherrent, but I see nothing wrong with safety measures, unless they emasculate the cars.

simesb

16-03-10, 10:05 AM

Be alot better when they get back into Europe and on some proper tracks.

Sadly I don;t think that will be true - with the exception of Monaco, drivers are no longer punished for mistakes as tarmac runoffs are so large. When gravel traps were thought to be safer, a car missing a corner would likely miss the rest of the race; now they just have to let through the car they overtook when missing the corner.

Stig

16-03-10, 10:10 AM

Don't state your uninformed opinion as fact then.

I did not state it as fact. You are being far too literal with your reading. Just because someone has a different opinion to yourself, please do not automatically assume a defensive and hostile approach and assume it is a personal attack on you as your response seems to indicate you have.

I'm not talking about taking an F1 car and chainsawing the wings off it.

Essentially, that is exactly how I read and understood your post. Maybe it would have helped if you have expressed your own informed and factual comments more clearly. :)

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to post in an "I'm right you're wrong stop talking now" manner if you're not prepared for someone to respond to that.

But I am prepared for someone to respond. Just not in such a condescending manner as yours. I don't believe I mentioned I was right and everyone else was wrong and I most certainly didn't try to tell anyone else to stop talking. This is how you have decided to interpret what I have written. That's the thing with internet forums isn't it. No emotion or expression shown so the reader interprets his/her own. Not always correctly.

Have a nice day.

fizzwheel

16-03-10, 10:11 AM

Actually, the cause of the crash has never been officially concluded, but tyre pressures have been implicated and dismissed.

Really ?

I watched a documentary ages ago where they talked about tyre pressures and ride height. The conclusion at that time was that the pressure dropped off behind the safety car and the car bottomed out and it effectively highsided off the track. At the time I think they were running the williams very low to the ground much lower than the other cars.

As I understand it even with a flat bottom car the flow of airflow over and under the car is still used to generate downforce, but I might be wrong. I thought that was why they introduced the plank to stop the teams running the cars so low to the ground and generating downforce that way.

I am not 100% sure of my facts, but thats how I understood it.

simesb

16-03-10, 10:20 AM

Really ?

I watched a documentary ages ago where they talked about tyre pressures and ride height. The conclusion at that time was that the pressure dropped off behind the safety car and the car bottomed out and it effectively highsided off the track. At the time I think they were running the williams very low to the ground much lower than the other cars.

that is one of the theories and one that appears to have a lot of substance. Damon Hill apparently, thinks Senna made a mistake, but this does not fit the perception of Senna as an infallible genius. All F1 cars can try to corner too fast if the driver keeps his foot down - it is this modern assumption there is no such thing as an accident :confused:

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that tyre pressures could have been a factor, but that Senna as an experienced driver should have been aware of that and not gone so fast in the corner.

The official Italian investigation did not find a definitive cause (I believe - I have to trust others as my Italian is not very good!)

fizzwheel

16-03-10, 10:23 AM

that is one of the theories and one that appears to have a lot of substance. Damon Hill apparently, thinks Senna made a mistake,

I've read an article where Damon said that he thought Senna had made a mistake. Like you say Senna was experienced and would have anticipated the fact his pressures were down. Also Damon would have been experienced in that car already.

Senna was under pressure from Schumacher and to make up for a poor start to the season so I guess he could have just made an error. It wouldnt have been the first time he had done it.

Filipe M.

16-03-10, 10:42 AM

Actually, the cause of the crash has never been officially concluded, but tyre pressures have been implicated and dismissed. Also worth noting that ground effect cars had been banned 10 years earlier (not to say that cars have no ground effect, but the flat bottoms were mandated)

The other death the same weekend, Roland Ratzenberger, was when the front wing became detached under load (after being damaged during an off) and became stuck under the car.

The whole weekend was a freak accident succession, beginning with Rubens Barrichello's off at the Variante Bassa on friday, where his car took off and hit the crash barriers above the tyre "protection" wall (he walked away with a only broken nose), followed by R. Ratzenberger's crash at the end of the Tamburello on saturday, then Pedro Lamy rear-ending J. J. Lehto's stalled car in the grid, sending a flying tyre into the public (I believe someone died as a result of being hit by it), then Senna's accident, and finally a wheel coming loose from someone's car (can't remember for sure but I think it was Michelle Alboretto) and running over someone in the pit lane.

F1 is a sport where risk is inherrent, but I see nothing wrong with safety measures, unless they emasculate the cars.

If anything, cars are getting faster every year. TBH, I lost interest a long time ago, and the fact the races are now only being aired on premium channels here in Portugal is no stranger to that, but as I recall it, for every "slow down" measure the FIA tries to impose, the teams engineers come up with two counter-acting measures that make the cars go faster and faster each year (and that's why they are team engineers and not FIA legislators...).

Unfortunately, and as everyone has said before, every single one of this measures is ultimately based on aerodynamics efficiency to achieve faster speeds around corners. I honestly believe straight line top speed is pretty much maxed out now due to several reasons, so there are only two other areas where they can still become faster: acceleration and going around bends. Problem is there's only so much you can do to counteract centrifugal force and lack of grip / traction, and the first port of call is downforce.

Of course they can slash downforce to a minimum and send F1 back to Formula Ford or BMW class where there is practically no downforce to be relied on and races are fought to the last lap (young drivers who don't have to worry about upsetting the cars aerodynamic balance if they bang into someone else also comes into play ;) ), but the problem is the general public also expects the F1 cars to be the fastest cars on track year after year, and they won't be satisfied if some driver doesn't break last years best lap time by at least 1 second.

Of course this will have to change in the future, for the sake of the sport itself, but the how and when is still unknown...

pookie

27-03-10, 11:09 AM

flymo

27-03-10, 11:32 AM

here we go again for the oz f1 gp.. is it me or does anyone else get irritated by the constant whining by mclaren. I see this when premiership footballers talk too much when they should be kicking a round ball around.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8590498.stm

I suppose that if you keep shoving a microphone in somebodies face then you'll get back plenty of moans and groans. They are big boys and girls and can look after themselves, I personally couldnt give a crap. Only interested in how they perform on the track.

Surfjayce

28-03-10, 08:03 AM

Now that race was a bit better huh :D :D

Tim in Belgium

28-03-10, 08:03 AM

A great race, if you haven't seen it definitely watch the replay.

MR UKI (1)

28-03-10, 08:13 AM

Miles better, but it's still masking the problem slightly, only a good race because of the uncertain weather?

Tim in Belgium

28-03-10, 08:33 AM

Probably, if more races were like that I'd make an effort to always watch it.

MR UKI (1)

28-03-10, 08:35 AM

Probably, if more races were like that I'd make an effort to always watch it.

+1. Lets hope there is a monsoon in Malaysia next week :D

punyXpress

28-03-10, 10:25 AM

Or random sprinklers on corners?
Then they'd earn their corn!

thedonal

28-03-10, 10:32 AM

Given that they're now hosting the racing,

WHY MUST THE BBC INSIST ON POSTING THE RESULT BEFORE THE RE-RUN ON DAYS WHEN THE LIVE RACE IS AT A SERIOUSLY UNGODLY HOUR FOR THE UK?!!!!

OK- it's my fault for accidentally clicking on the news site- but I looked away immediately and clicked on another link on my address bar. But it was the bloody BBC F1 site!! What a klutz.

But seriously- many of use choose not to get up at 6, have the racing on and annoy the neighbours with the noise when we live in flats. A b it of consideration would be useful...

dyzio

28-03-10, 11:18 AM

What's up with the boo's at the podium?

rowdy

28-03-10, 11:23 AM

What's up with the boo's at the podium?
Aimed at an mp that was present I believe.

pookie

28-03-10, 05:04 PM

racing made better when they take each other out..maybe bernie has a gremlin to stop red bull running away with the championship. Credit where credit is due Bunsen did a sterling job!

Davadvice

28-03-10, 08:38 PM

got to say that was one of the best i've seen for a good while. lewis was on fire and the racing overall was exceptional. got to ask why they started the season in ababdbabdbda. albert park is such a good place to open for the fans.

i know next week could go down as a total waste. hope not theough.

Stig

29-03-10, 07:34 AM

simesb

29-03-10, 07:41 AM

I don't forsee the show being as entertaining as that throughout the season unless the weather plays a part. But it was good viewing. A master stroke for Button to decide on slicks early. Vettel has to be so gutted though. Two races he should have won and has no points. Nice to see the Ferrari's struggling for pace too. Gives a little added spice. Schumacher must be getting frustrated and wondering if he made the right decision to make a come back. I expect he thought the Mercedes was going to be more competitive. Has he lost his magic of being able to overdrive a bad car making it look good? He's being outclassed by his team mate at the moment. Although I wonder if he had not had to change his front wing would he have been further up the front mixing it with the leaders?

Vettel has 12 points because he was 4th in the first race, but he probably would have 50 if not for reliability.

Rosberg is currently 5th in the championship so the Mercedes is still competitive and is the 3rd or 4th best car on the grid, just not as outstanding as the beginning of last season. Still don't like Schumi, but I think he made a big mistake coming back.

Stig

29-03-10, 08:02 AM

Vettel has 12 points because he was 4th in the first race, but he probably would have 50 if not for reliability.

Rosberg is currently 5th in the championship so the Mercedes is still competitive and is the 3rd or 4th best car on the grid, just not as outstanding as the beginning of last season. Still don't like Schumi, but I think he made a big mistake coming back.

Ah yes. I was thinking he didn't finish but of course just went backward.

fizzwheel

29-03-10, 08:09 AM

Still don't like Schumi, but I think he made a big mistake coming back.

Quite possibly. I noticed yesterday how the younger F1 drivers werent intimidated by him. He was stuck mid pack for along time and didnt seem to be able to make his way past. Alonso cut his way up through the pack very quickly whereas Schumacher just seemed to sit there.

I enjoyed yesterday race. Was much better, drama overtaking, Hamilton throwing a strop like a spoilt little boy at the end of the race.

I think we have alot to thank the weather for. Wander what Malaysia is going to be like...

flymo

29-03-10, 08:32 AM

I think its the nature of the beast in F1, if we want tons of overtaking and bumps and scrapes then we may as well watch touring cars to be honest.

F1 is what it is and it takes a little of the unexpected to generate some drama, an exciting race cannot be manufactured it just happens.

Good race on Sunday though, superb strategy from Buttons team.

As for Redbull, whats the point in an unreliable fast car? They need to get a grip fast or they'll be swamped by the other teams after a few months development.

One other thing......Eddie Jordan is begining to do my t1ts in :-)

fizzwheel

29-03-10, 08:48 AM

One other thing......Eddie Jordan is begining to do my t1ts in :-)

:D Mine to. He is not as bad as last year, but he and DC definately dont seem to like each other. You can guarantee that DC will say one thing and the EJ will completely disagree and then they start arguing. I actually find it quite funny and it makes a change from the normal bland commentary that we sometimes get.

Stig

29-03-10, 08:50 AM

I think we have alot to thank the weather for. Wander what Malaysia is going to be like...

Almost guaranteed WET. :lol:

flymo

29-03-10, 08:51 AM

:D Mine to. He is not as bad as last year, but he and DC definately dont seem to like each other. You can guarantee that DC will say one thing and the EJ will completely disagree and then they start arguing. I actually find it quite funny and it makes a change from the normal bland commentary that we sometimes get.

I get the impression that he thinks of himself as a powerful influential person in F1 and it appears that most people dont give a carp. He might have experience on how to run a F1 team but he needs to keep a lid on his driving 'advice'. Coulthard obviously knows what he is talking about in that regard.

flymo

29-03-10, 09:04 AM

lol, only in Australia...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8592317.stm

The "dont drive like a ********" campaign :-)

Supervox

29-03-10, 12:23 PM

Quite possibly. I noticed yesterday how the younger F1 drivers werent intimidated by him. He was stuck mid pack for along time and didnt seem to be able to make his way past. Alonso cut his way up through the pack very quickly whereas Schumacher just seemed to sit there.

I enjoyed yesterday race. Was much better, drama overtaking, Hamilton throwing a strop like a spoilt little boy at the end of the race.

I think we have alot to thank the weather for. Wander what Malaysia is going to be like...

I couldn't help laughing when Schumacher was overtaken by one of the Virgin Racing cars ! :cool:

As for Hamilton's little strop at the end - well,much will depend on how Whitmarsh chooses to deal with it. Yes, it appeared to be (with hindsight) a bad tactical decision to bring him in for a tyre stop; however, what no-one outside the team knows is just how his tyres were wearing. He is notoriously hard on tyres & it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that the team had no choice because his tyres were completely shot.

Anyway - all in all an enjoyable race :D

fizzwheel

29-03-10, 01:00 PM

I couldn't help laughing when Schumacher was overtaken by one of the Virgin Racing cars ! :cool:

Yep Liz and I were chuckling about that to.

I wander what he had done to his tyres, he was complaining that the 2nd set had no grip once he got up behind the Ferraris...

I wander just how much of a de-stabilising period he is going through after giving his dad the boot as a manager.

dyzio

29-03-10, 01:10 PM

his dad the boot as a manager.

Wasn't Willi Weber his manager? Or did I miss something?

fizzwheel

29-03-10, 01:15 PM

Wasn't Willi Weber his manager? Or did I miss something?

No his dad has been managing him, but he isnt anymore. Hence why he hasnt been seen in the garage this season. I dont think Hamilton has a manager at all at the moment, they did say on the bbc a whle ago he had been talking to different managers though...

dyzio

29-03-10, 01:17 PM

Ah, now I get it, you're talking about Hamilton...
I got confused by the quote and first line of your post.

simesb

29-03-10, 01:19 PM

I couldn't help laughing when Schumacher was overtaken by one of the Virgin Racing cars ! :cool:

From memory, Cobblers was trying to overtake the VR car, overcooked it so the VR car came back round the outside.

Still chortlesome though :D

fizzwheel

03-04-10, 09:49 AM

Quality qualifying session. Very enjoyable to watch. Hopefully this will translate into a decent race tomorrow.

Bluefish

03-04-10, 06:36 PM

Got to agree race will be mega, bring on the rain.

punyXpress

03-04-10, 09:16 PM

Hey Stig Of The Dump: How many teams wanting you for weather forecasts for the rest of the season?
Post #741 refers.

flibble

04-04-10, 09:11 AM

Can't believe BBC have just chopped half the race onto another channel!

Supervox

04-04-10, 10:01 AM

Can't believe BBC have just chopped half the race onto another channel!

Yeah - what the hell was that about ??!!

For God's sake switch the whole flippin' prog to BBC2 if you have something that youneed to show on BBC1 !!

Fortunately I was just watching it on 'time delay' - if I'd decided to watch it all later I'd have been really p'd off.

fizzwheel

04-04-10, 10:24 AM

Easter Sunday service takes precendent though doesnt it.

I agree why not show the whole of the F1 on the BBC2 and then no need to faff switching it over.

As for the race, quite enjoyable especially the first few laps.

punyXpress

04-04-10, 03:21 PM

Some races that switchover would be the most exciting bit, though.

Fizzy Fish

05-04-10, 06:45 AM

grrrrr, I was really enjoying the race on Sky+, but missed the switchover. Never mind, I thought, I'll record the afternoon repeat and watch the rest...except the power went off and cancelled the recording. Now I have to wait til later today, AND I've already accidentally found out who won... :roll:

Still, it's been a pretty damn fine weekend's viewing so far, F1 seems to have really picked up from a spectator perspective with the recent rule changes. And the rain of course! :D

05-04-10, 07:43 AM

Yeah - what the hell was that about ??!!

For God's sake switch the whole flippin' prog to BBC2 if you have something that youneed to show on BBC1 !!

Fortunately I was just watching it on 'time delay' - if I'd decided to watch it all later I'd have been really p'd off.

Yep missed half the race as I sky+ it :( gits

I bet loads did it.

Thingus

05-04-10, 06:52 PM

iPlayer?

If i miss the race i just try my best to avoid anyone younger than 70 who might be talking about sport, and get back, going straight to bbc.co.uk/iplayer.

Yeh it's annoying but they do that sometimes so meh.

Seggons

05-04-10, 07:05 PM

For anyone that isn't aware they put the practice sessions up on iPlayer too. :D

Seggons

05-04-10, 07:09 PM

Practice 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s2vk7/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Practice_O ne/
Practice 2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s2vk9/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Practice_T wo/
Qualifiying: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rx7gf/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Qualifying/
Post Race Forum: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s2vlz/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Forum/
Race Part 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rx7tb/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Part_1/
Race Part 2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rxb2z/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Part_2/
Race Highlights: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rwv30/Formula_1_2010_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Highlights/

:D

Filipe M.

05-04-10, 10:31 PM

And of course the iPlayer won't work in Portugal... grrrrr

Seggons

05-04-10, 11:23 PM

And of course the iPlayer won't work in Portugal... grrrrr

Can you not use some kind of proxy so it looks like your in the UK?

Filipe M.

06-04-10, 06:56 AM

Had that idea some time ago, but dropped it for practical reasons. Time to try again, I think...

Stig

06-04-10, 07:17 AM

Wander what Malaysia is going to be like...

Almost guaranteed WET. :lol:

Hey Stig Of The Dump: How many teams wanting you for weather forecasts for the rest of the season?
Post #741 refers.

Hey, we were talking about MALAYSIA. Not rocket science is it. :lol:

Yet again rain was resulted in a good race. Convinced it would have not been anywhere near as entertaining if it had stayed dry. Maybe the answer is to change all the dates of the races for the wet season in each country. :)

Can't believe BBC have just chopped half the race onto another channel!

Yeah - what the hell was that about ??!!

For God's sake switch the whole flippin' prog to BBC2 if you have something that youneed to show on BBC1 !!

Fortunately I was just watching it on 'time delay' - if I'd decided to watch it all later I'd have been really p'd off.

I watched it on recorded on Sky too so missed the second half of the race. BBC idiots. Grrrrr.

sinbad

06-04-10, 08:38 AM

Hey, we were talking about MALAYSIA. Not rocket science is it. :lol:

Yet again rain was resulted in a good race. Convinced it would have not been anywhere near as entertaining if it had stayed dry. Maybe the answer is to change all the dates of the races for the wet season in each country. :)

Didn't rain in the race I saw. Wasn't a particularly good race either, although nowhere near Bahrain dullness levels :)

I think the problem with Malaysia is that if they run the race late enough for rain to be highly likely, it's almost certainly the kind of rain that will cause the race to be abandoned.

Hopefully China will be good.

Stig

06-04-10, 09:26 AM

Didn't rain in the race I saw. Wasn't a particularly good race either, although nowhere near Bahrain dullness levels :)

I think the problem with Malaysia is that if they run the race late enough for rain to be highly likely, it's almost certainly the kind of rain that will cause the race to be abandoned.

Hopefully China will be good.

It was the rain in qualifying that saw top teams right down the bottom of the order on the starting grid. This alone produced some good overtaking and racing during the race itself.

If ever there was a chance for Michael Schumacher to make himself look good and get on the podium, this was the race. Oops.

simesb

06-04-10, 09:32 AM

If ever there was a chance for Michael Schumacher to make himself look good and get on the podium, this was the race. Oops.

I may yet eat my words, but he looks like a spent force. While obviously still able to hold his own, he has displayed none of the cutting edge which made him so unstoppable in his prime. He hasn't yet been able to dominate his team-mate either, mentally or on track.

Stig

06-04-10, 09:40 AM

I may yet eat my words, but he looks like a spent force. While obviously still able to hold his own, he has displayed none of the cutting edge which made him so unstoppable in his prime. He hasn't yet been able to dominate his team-mate either, mentally or on track.

I am wondering the same thing. But then only race 3 into a long season. But wonder if his year this year does not go to his liking if we will see him continue into the 2nd year of his 2 year contract.

Filipe M.

06-04-10, 09:42 AM

I am wondering the same thing. But then only race 3 into a long season. But wonder if his year this year does not go to his liking if we will see him continue into the 2nd year of his 2 year contract.

Didn't the same thing happen to Alain Prost a few years ago?, i.e., coming back to do errr... nothing?

fizzwheel

06-04-10, 09:47 AM

Didn't the same thing happen to Alain Prost a few years ago?, i.e., coming back to do errr... nothing?

he had 1992 off and then came back in 1993 and drove for Williams with Damon Hill as Team mate. Prost won the WDC in 1993. So you cant really say he did nothing ;)

Schumacher is looking a little lost I think. He has some tough competition now and is being out qualified and out raced by his team mate. I wander if Roseberg will be shuffled out of the team like Schumachers previous quick team mates have been in the past...

Filipe M.

06-04-10, 09:48 AM

he had 1992 off and then came back in 1993 and drove for Williams with Damon Hill as Team mate. Prost won the WDC in 1993. So you cant really say he did nothing ;)

Ops, wrong pilot then. Clearly. :rolleyes:

Stig

06-04-10, 09:49 AM

Didn't the same thing happen to Alain Prost a few years ago?, i.e., coming back to do errr... nothing?

Nigel Mansell I believe.

simesb

06-04-10, 09:51 AM

Nigel Mansell I believe.

He came back in a 3rd McLaren for a few races didn't he, rather than competing a full season?

Filipe M.

06-04-10, 09:51 AM

Nigel Mansell I believe.

Cr@p. I was afraid he might have been the one, but I didn't really want to say it because he's still my all time favourite pilot. 8-[

Might have been when he came back to F1 after winning the Cart championship in his rookie year. Yup, that was it.

fizzwheel

06-04-10, 09:52 AM

He came back in a 3rd McLaren for a few races didn't he, rather than competing a full season?

He did, but he didnt fit into the car properly.

He also did a few races for Williams at the end of 1994 taking David Coulthards drive. Was quite spectacular in Australia that year IIRC.

sinbad

06-04-10, 01:47 PM

If Schumacher came back and was immediately as quick as Rosberg, then given the very limited amount of "seat time" drivers get nowadays, wouldn't that be more indicative of Rosberg being not very good, rather than of Schu being brilliant?

We all believe Rosberg is good. I think very few of the drivers on the grid would outperform him in the same car, so it's hardly shocking that someone returning from a lengthy absence cannot. The end of the season is what Schu should be judged by, not the beginning.

Stig

06-04-10, 02:06 PM

simesb

06-04-10, 02:53 PM

The end of the season is what Schu should be judged by, not the beginning.

The simple fact is he has not performed as he used to. He may not have the best car, but that never stopped him at Benneton. It is not so much lack of results that have surprised me, but the lack of ambition and aggression he has shown.

F1 is fiercely competitive - his return is a marketing decision by Mercedes to highlight their return as a manufacturer. They would have been better hiring a young driver on the way up, not one passed his prime.

I predict he will finish the season behind the Red Bulls, Mclarens, Ferraris and his team mate; 7th at best. I would not be surprised if he finishes behind a Renault or 2, and possibly a Force India.

fizzwheel

06-04-10, 02:58 PM

They would have been better hiring a young driver on the way up, not one passed his prime.

I'm not so sure. Schumacher has one of the best reputations with regard to developing a car / working and motivating a team. Perhaps some of this is starting to rub off on young Rosberg and might be the reason for some of his performance so far this year.

Binky

06-04-10, 03:00 PM

I'm not so sure. Schumacher has one of the best reputations with regard to developing a car / working and motivating a team. Perhaps some of this is starting to rub off on young Rosberg and might be the reason for some of his performance so far this year.

He could act as a subliminal mentor, almost, for Rosberg.

Sure he did similar things for Massa a few years ago and Massa is certainly a way better driver now than he was four or five years ago, quite possibly thanks to working with Schumacher for that period.

06-04-10, 03:15 PM

The simple fact is he has not performed as he used to. He may not have the best car, but that never stopped him at Benneton.

To be fair he got punted off the track in Australia damaging the front wing and front suspsension... they then replaced the front wing but could not do the same with the suspension but he carried on with damaged front suspension anyway.

Then in Malaysia his rear suspension failed... that's hardly his fault either.

Bahrain is Bahrain, it made everyone look rubbish and no one overtook anyway. Not to mention his first time racing back in an F1 car.

He has a lot more to give and its plain to see, its a shame so many people want to see him fail.

Stig

06-04-10, 08:09 PM

He has a lot more to give and its plain to see, its a shame so many people want to see him fail.

I don't want him to fail. I think he was/is an awesome talent and was looking forward to him proving his skeptics wrong. I just don't think he has the machinery and has lost a little too much of that excellence he once possessed. I would still like to be proven wrong. :)

Davadvice

06-04-10, 08:15 PM

I don't want him to fail. I think he was/is an awesome talent and was looking forward to him proving his skeptics wrong. I just don't think he has the machinery and has lost a little too much of that excellence he once possessed. I would still like to be proven wrong. :)

i'm with you on this, wouldn't have been a few years ago but i do realise that he was a fantastice tallent. this weeks race got of to a great start but did falter near the end.

might be that i was a bit harsh at the beginner. we'll see.

Binky

07-04-10, 08:58 AM

Just found this.

http://www.hiti.fr/2009/f1/bernieknife.jpg

16-04-10, 03:10 PM

Just found this.

http://www.hiti.fr/2009/f1/bernieknife.jpg

LMAO has to be a photoshop?

simesb

18-04-10, 09:59 AM

An above average race for excitement. :D

Supervox

18-04-10, 11:23 AM

SPOILER SPACE - for those that may not have watched the race yet !!

WOW !! I was all but hiding behind the sofa for the last few laps after Jenson ran wide at the hairpin - I was sure that Lewis was going to make a last-ditch lunge and take the pair of them out !! Fair play though, it didn't happen. GREAT result for McLaren - brilliant tyre call (again) by Jenson to stay out but an equally brilliant drive by Lewis to make his way through the pack to make it to 2nd.

Whilst I can understand the 'no penalty' against Vetel & Hamilton for the pitlane incident, why wasn't Alonso's pitlane entry incident with Massa investigated - that looked plain downright dangerous driving to me. Also, what the hell was that 2nd Safety Car all about ? There looked to be half a dozen pieces of debris on the track that were quickly cleared by the marshals - surely a 'local waved yellow' was all that was required ?

Finally, how pleasing was it to see Schumkacher getting 'beaten up' (again) by so many drivers in conditions that used to be his forte ? Anyone else think that he'll re-retire before then end of the season ?

simesb

18-04-10, 11:31 AM

Finally, how pleasing was it to see Schumkacher getting 'beaten up' (again) by so many drivers in conditions that used to be his forte ? Anyone else think that he'll re-retire before then end of the season ?

He has his neck ready as an excuse I'd imagine. I didn't like him when he was in his prime, but I think it is a shame to see a once great driver try to make an ill-advised comeback. He obviously still has the strategy, but not the raw aggression and pace he once had.

Mr Speirs

18-04-10, 12:30 PM

lso, what the hell was that 2nd Safety Car all about ? There looked to be half a dozen pieces of debris on the track that were quickly cleared by the marshals - surely a 'local waved yellow' was all that was required ?

I believe the problem was that the debris was on the racing line, the marshalls would have had to been picking debris up from that racing line. Even if they had just stood at the side of the track picking it up when they could it would have meant them standing in the run off area so if a car had out braked itself there is a pretty strong chance they would have gone directly into the marshalls

That's how I saw it.

Stig

19-04-10, 08:08 AM

I believe the problem was that the debris was on the racing line, the marshalls would have had to been picking debris up from that racing line. Even if they had just stood at the side of the track picking it up when they could it would have meant them standing in the run off area so if a car had out braked itself there is a pretty strong chance they would have gone directly into the marshalls

That's how I saw it.

Me too.

Entertaining race helped a lot by the rain and the safety cars.

flymo

19-04-10, 08:22 AM

A brilliant race. I was amazed to find out today that neither Hamilton or Vettel got penalised for that rediculous display down pit lane, that was just plain dangerous from both.

It seems that the stewards have gone from one extreme to the other.

Stig

19-04-10, 08:25 AM

fizzwheel

19-04-10, 08:44 AM

I thought it was pretty fair, they both got a talking to and no further action was taken. If anybody would be penalised it should be the teams for releasing the cars into the path of each other.

I enjoyed the race. Was good to watch. Master stroke drive by button again in changeable conditions.

I think Hamilton has the edge in terms of raw speed, but Button I think has the superior racing brain.

Stig

19-04-10, 08:50 AM

I think Hamilton has the edge in terms of raw speed, but Button I think has the superior racing brain.

I think you have hit on a point there. Hamilton just does what the team tells him to do and let's them take all the decisions. Button makes decisions for himself even if the team do not particulary agree with him.

simesb

19-04-10, 09:14 AM

But neither were above the pitlane speed limit. Technically you could say they were not racing. Just both travelling at the same speed on the same bit of tarmac. :wink: Besides that, it's down to the pit crews to release the drivers. Penalising the drivers always seems unfair in situations like that to me. Better to give the teams a heavy fine and leave the drivers out of it.

A fine would just allow the better off teams to do it and not worry about the repercussions. A racing penalty hits them where it hurts. It was fortunate that there were no teams working on a car further down the lane.

Although I'm a big fan of Hamilton, I think he should have got out of it but at least they both showed a lot of racing spirit. I rather suspect that if Vettel hadn't tried to run him into the airlines then the Steward's outcome may have been a little different.