View Full Version : AR Marking Discussion
im still undicided of wether to come
if i was wanted/needed as a marker that would probably perswade me to come:salut:
That's a joke right? Your saying you will only go to the event if you are selected to be a marker?
I think Supervox, who is the ride leader, has the marking in hand now.
I think a lot of the comments and suggestions here will inform and guide decisions for AR10
That's a joke right? ?
joke? er no
Your saying you will only go to the event if you are selected to be a marker?
am i?
i thought i was saying it would perswade me to come, if everyone that wanted to do dropp offs could. as im not sure yet.
and would feel more like a propper rideout
SoulKiss
26-05-09, 02:29 PM
and would feel more like a propper rideout
Define "a propper rideout"
Can we persuade you to come by any other means?
plowsie
26-05-09, 02:34 PM
Can we persuade you to come by any other means?
I told him I was bringing my missus, this did seem to work for a while, but soon washed off.
I think I get what he is trying to say, more that he has no need to be there, but if needed as a marker, he feels a certain responsibility to say yes. Not that he won't come unless invited.
Define "a propper rideout" like anyone of the other 200+ rideouts i have been on, :kiss:
Apart from previous AR's where the identified markers have been used mwah xx
SoulKiss
26-05-09, 02:54 PM
like anyone of the other 200+ rideouts i have been on, :kiss:
How do they differ from how you perceive this rideout will be?
the white rabbit
26-05-09, 03:17 PM
Define "a propper rideout"
Its similar to a normal rideout, but with two 'p's in it :p
How do they differ from how you perceive this rideout will be?mainly down to the fact that anyone can do drop offs, rather than just following the bike in front. to make it more intreasting, and not so much like a guided tour
Its similar to a normal rideout, but with two 'p's in it :p:smt037
SoulKiss
26-05-09, 03:31 PM
Its similar to a normal rideout, but with two 'p's in it :p
Scroll up - I was ironically quoting the typo :)
SoulKiss
26-05-09, 03:36 PM
mainly down to the fact that anyone can do drop offs, rather than just following the bike in front. to make it more intreasting, and not so much like a guided tour
:smt037
You have been on an AR before - so you should know that it ISN'T like a standard Saturday morning run - and your "guided tour" comment isn't really that far off.
Thats the nature of a rideout that needs to cater for EVERY standard of riding that may be there.
So a slow bimble is what it has to be.
Oops I thought TYM meant that there would be dedicated marker group and they would mark. My bad, think I misread.
I meant exacty that Stu except the markers would only have to mark once. Any monkey can do it and there's zero pressure as long as they can identify a a long outstretched arm with a pointing finger and are able to stop their bike safely and wear a yellow bib. We could even have some who mark once and others who return to the front. Geddit?
plowsie
26-05-09, 03:39 PM
I meant exacty that Stu except the markers would only have to mark once. Any monkey can do it and there's zero pressure as long as they can identify a a long outstretched arm with a pointing finger and are able to stop their bike safely and wear a yellow bib. We could even have some who mark once and others who return to the front. Geddit?
*Does the jive*
:smt077 I was right :)
SoulKiss
26-05-09, 03:42 PM
I meant exacty that Stu except the markers would only have to mark once. Any monkey can do it and there's zero pressure as long as they can identify a a long outstretched arm with a pointing finger and are able to stop their bike safely and wear a yellow bib. We could even have some who mark once and others who return to the front. Geddit?
You are making it MUCH more complcated than it needs to be.......................
Seems to be trying to find a problem to assign a solution to.
Surely the problem is people feeling like they've been buzzed and people wanting to mark? This would stop all of that. If there are 25 junctions and 25 yellow bib wearing folk, they would all start at the front and end towards the back. Simples.
Scroll up - I was ironically quoting the typo :):-dd
You have been on an AR before - so you should know that it ISN'T like a standard Saturday morning run - and your "guided tour" comment isn't really that far off.
Thats the nature of a rideout that needs to cater for EVERY standard of riding that may be there.
So a slow bimble is what it has to be.
every rideout i have been on has catered for all types of rider, or i should say every SV650.org rideout has. thats the whole point of the marker system so nobody gets lost etc
i just dont see why everyone that wants to do drop offs cant
Rider 2 (first behind the leader), marks the first junction when the leader turns off.
Lets the whole group pass until he sees TEC, and rejoins at the back.
Next junction, the orginally 3rd rider(who is now behind the leader) marks the next junction, and rejoins when he/she sees the TEC.
And so on and so on..
Saves the need for markers that need to pass the whole group to get to the front to mark again.
But thats only my 2p.
Rider 2 (first behind the leader), marks the first junction when the leader turns off.
Lets the whole group pass until he sees TEC, and rejoins at the back.
Next junction, the orginally 3rd rider(who is now behind the leader) marks the next junction, and rejoins when he/she sees the TEC.
And so on and so on..
Saves the need for markers that need to pass the whole group to get to the front to mark again.
But thats only my 2p.
That indeed is a very good system and works very well. However, it has also proved to be a disaster when used with people that do not understand the marker system properly or quite simply get bored with sitting there waiting for the tail end charley. There have also been instances where by a marker on a particular corner waited for so long he was convinced he must have missed the TEC and carried on. This was not the case and eventually riders arrived at the junction to find no marker. With dedicated markers this erases any of those possibilities.
The TVSF use the drop off system to very good effect. It just is not suitable for mass rideouts with unknown quantities. It only takes one single marker to decide not to mark the corner for a potential disaster to occur.
Would work better in groups who know the route well, and know/trust everyone else riding in that group.
IMHO everything that can be said about the different ways of getting a large group of bikes through a long route has been said. perhaps this thread itself should have had some sort of marker system because it seems to be going round in circles!
Can it be accepted that there is more than one way of doing the marking for a large group rideout successfully? In this case, AR09, the system has been decided, primarily because it has worked before. It is clear that the feathers of one or two people have been ruffled, but in the grand scheme of things, it's only a case of who stands at a crossroads for 15 minutes! Marking junctions is not the biggest part of the event. As ArtyLady said some time ago, it does not make you wealthy or more attractive to the opposite sex!
Whoever organises next year, if anyone is that brave or foolish, will no doubt look at this thread and take the opinions and suggestions into account.
Put it into perspective guys! As far as I'm concerned willy waving isn't needed here
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 05:39 PM
i just dont see why everyone that wants to do drop offs cant
Like someone pointed out to me earlier. There's nothing to stop someone who isn't a marker hanging about at a junction for a bit.
ArtyLady
26-05-09, 05:56 PM
Like someone pointed out to me earlier. There's nothing to stop someone who isn't a marker hanging about at a junction for a bit.
Yeah then they can be a psuedo marker :lol:
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 06:22 PM
Yeah then they can be a psuedo marker :lol:
Well yeah but it gives you a way to get back to the back of the ride if you are getting bored at the leaders pace. That was basically the only disadvantage I could see to the designated marker method, and a simple way around it.
IMHO everything that can be said about the different ways of getting a large group of bikes through a long route has been said. perhaps this thread itself should have had some sort of marker system because it seems to be going round in circles!
Can it be accepted that there is more than one way of doing the marking for a large group rideout successfully? In this case, AR09, the system has been decided, primarily because it has worked before. It is clear that the feathers of one or two people have been ruffled, but in the grand scheme of things, it's only a case of who stands at a crossroads for 15 minutes! Marking junctions is not the biggest part of the event. As ArtyLady said some time ago, it does not make you wealthy or more attractive to the opposite sex!
Whoever organises next year, if anyone is that brave or foolish, will no doubt look at this thread and take the opinions and suggestions into account.
Put it into perspective guys! As far as I'm concerned willy waving isn't needed here
Sorry Sally :(
Like someone pointed out to me earlier. There's nothing to stop someone who isn't a marker hanging about at a junction for a bit.
sounds like a cunning plan
Spiderman
26-05-09, 08:08 PM
IMHO everything that can be said about the different ways of getting a large group of bikes through a long route has been said. perhaps this thread itself should have had some sort of marker system because it seems to be going round in circles!
OK, i'm taking charge :) Sallys right here. Earlier on i posted this so if we could please just keep the discussion on track based on the below.
.... I just want to enjoy the ride and if someone else has gone to the trouble to organise, lead and marshall it - great!
All the ARs i went on before this is exactly how i felt about the marking and organising. And tbh i still do.
I agree the "2nd man" system gives a lot more people the chance to participate, of that there is no doubt. But please bear in mind that some just want to come along and ride without the added requirment to mark any junctions at all.
My main concerns for the 2nd man system are these:
1. What about those who DONT want to mark at all. No one on the ride should be expected to partake of this activity unless they want to. Do we ask those who dont want to partake to stay in a pack near the back of the ride? Wil that be unfair and kinda spoil their ride/day?
2. How do we know who wants to participate without bibs? Clearly gonna be way more than i could memorise i know that much.
3. How do those who have marked a junction and are making their way back up thru those who dont want to mark know they are now "in the queue" to mark again without bibs?
As i mentioned earlier, on AR06 it was perfectly clear that me and the rider beside me were in this queue cos we were the only 2 directly behind the ride leader...yet a couple of hot headed bikes decided they wanted to force their way in front of us. And not very safely or politely either. They saw the whole thing as a game and tbh it really pee'd me off. If someone rode like that around me at any other time i'd be having some strong words with them about it. But its the AR and the last thing i wanted to do was have any bad atmosphere in the campground.
I'd hate to see say 80% of the riders wearing bibs to signify their marking and the other 20% not wearing anything, it'll make the group look wrong and again instill this sense of "them & us" thats been discussed already.
I know on our Soho rideouts we use the "2nd man" system all the time and it works flawlessly. However and i cant stress these factors enough...we ride together far more frequently than any of the other regions and our rides are normally a group of 5 - 15 or so. And the AR is far, far bigger than that.
Please remember the organisers want a headache free day, its a day for fun for them too and if it involves having to take people to one side to "have a word" about their riding it spoils the atmosphere for those involved.
If you have any answers to the above i'd love to hear them. Please aslo bear in mind that this discussion is not going to change the marker system for this year, that has already been decided. We want to add to this thread with more input following this years AR too, so please give some thought to your suggestions and dont just post "I like marking, can i join in please" or other pearls of wisdom like that or i'll have to get the mod stick out and start zapping usless posts.
AndyBrad
28-05-09, 12:10 PM
Like someone pointed out to me earlier. There's nothing to stop someone who isn't a marker hanging about at a junction for a bit.
ill probably be doing this for my 20min **** break that i keep needing on rideouts :(
the white rabbit
28-05-09, 12:15 PM
As far as I'm concerned willy waving isn't needed here
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fjecmnQ_tlM/SCM5KG8MIMI/AAAAAAAAAvc/NtdBejreTSA/s200/chilly+willy.bmp
:(
Spiderman
28-05-09, 12:22 PM
Like someone pointed out to me earlier. There's nothing to stop someone who isn't a marker hanging about at a junction for a bit.
sounds like a cunning plan
Mhm fag/food stop :)
ill probably be doing this for my 20min **** break that i keep needing on rideouts :(
Nothing stopping you hoping off for a bit by a marker...except of course making sure you and your bike are safely out of the way and not obscuring the person marking.
Oh and its not an excuse to try and follow said marker back up to the front either.
Nothing stopping you hoping off for a bit by a marker...except of course making sure you and your bike are safely out of the way and not obscuring the person marking.
Oh and its not an excuse to try and follow said marker back up to the front either.
didnt nieo get told off for that last year?
Spiderman
28-05-09, 12:50 PM
Not by me so i dont know tbh.
northwind
28-05-09, 12:58 PM
didnt nieo get told off for that last year?
Neio got told off for deliberately leaving every stop last then trying to overtake everyone, which is different.
Hovis, other reasons to come- get ****ed and hurt yourself on the big trampoline?
fizzwheel
28-05-09, 01:30 PM
didnt nieo get told off for that last year?
No, because he didnt actually do it, he stayed in the pack with everybody else, I was at the back most of the day and I didnt see him waiting till last to start off either.
We had a bit of discussion about ettiquette and behaviour last year...
threads here if you want to refresh your memories.
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=111841
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=111962
northwind
28-05-09, 01:52 PM
I told him off if nobody else did :p The stop at the petrol station, I was last out because I'd gone in to buy something from the shop and there he was, geared up and ready to go but waiting so he could be last :D
fizzwheel
28-05-09, 01:59 PM
I told him off if nobody else did :p
Ah I didnt see that as I ended up parked in a daft place because I was last one in...
I'm sure he made a post saying he regretted riding up through the pack like that and he wished he'd ridden more slowly to take the atmosphere in a little more.
Anyway he cant come on to defend himself so I thought I would...
Spiderman
28-05-09, 02:01 PM
Ah I didnt see that as I ended up parked in a daft place because I was last one in...
I'm sure he made a post saying he regretted riding up through the pack like that and he wished he'd ridden more slowly to take the atmosphere in a little more.
Anyway he cant come on to defend himself so I thought I would...
Yeh you're right there Fizz, i remember that too.
SoulKiss
28-05-09, 02:02 PM
Yeh you're right there Fizz, i remember that too.
He also said it at the pub on the Saturday night.
Anyway he cant come on to defend himself so I thought I would...
so he IS banned
as fox mulder would say "the truth is out there"
;)
ill probably be doing this for my 20min **** break that i keep needing on rideouts :(
Poor fella. I'm the same. I don't usually do it by the side of the road though I do sometimes let loads of bikers watch me. Hang on... we might have crossed paths here...
Is a poor soul going to TEC the whole route?
Spiderman
28-05-09, 02:48 PM
Is a poor soul going to TEC the whole route?
I think there is no doubt about having a RL (ride leader) and a TEC (tail end charlie) on the AR.
However i dont see any reason why 1 person has to be TEC all day unless they particularly want to. I'm TEC for one half of the ride this year and someone is TEC or the other half.
northwind
28-05-09, 03:13 PM
I'm sure he made a post saying he regretted riding up through the pack like that and he wished he'd ridden more slowly to take the atmosphere in a little more.
I think I made him feel bad ;) I don't think he needed much defending on this though, sure it was a wee bit silly but every time I saw him the overtakes were clean and safe. If he'd done it halfway up the pack I'd not have even mentioned it but I knew some people were deliberately hanging back as they didn't like riding in the pack or being overtaken so much. But I don't think he knew that, doubt he'd have done it at all if he'd realised.
Anyway, derail over...
Owenski
28-05-09, 03:39 PM
I've read those links fizz, all taken on board something Im not sure I understand however so I may PM you to confirm. Also what sort of time is the ride out going to take/ whats the start time?>
I've read those links fizz, all taken on board something Im not sure I understand however so I may PM you to confirm. Also what sort of time is the ride out going to take/ whats the start time?>
All the details are here...
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=131877
Spiderman
09-08-09, 01:47 AM
Well from a markers persperctive i was very pleased and found most people were aware of me in their mirrors and made way for me as they could. I had no incidents and i hope i caused no one else any issues at all with my riding.
If i did, i genuinely would like to know so if i'm chosen to be a marker again i'll know what i need to do better or change :)
rictus01
09-08-09, 01:58 AM
I didn't even stick to the planned route.....................;)
Warthog
09-08-09, 10:59 AM
I thought it was perfect! The only way to mark a 100 bike rideout really. I love having the opportunity to wave or thrust or gesticulate at markers as we go past :-P
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