View Full Version : rear shock change
Mr Speirs
18-02-10, 01:31 PM
Not entirely sure but the pre 2007 thou had a single exit exhaust where as the k7 onwards have dual exit exhausts. I bet they had to move the linkage's to accomodate the, which would have an effect on leverage thus needing a stiffer spring.
That's my uneducated gues.
-Ralph-
18-02-10, 01:36 PM
Not entirely sure but the pre 2007 thou had a single exit exhaust where as the k7 onwards have dual exit exhausts. I bet they had to move the linkage's to accomodate the, which would have an effect on leverage thus needing a stiffer spring.
That's my uneducated gues.
I've been emailing breakers and may have the option of a k7/k8 shock with 3000 miles on it for a reasonable price.
Anybody know how much leverage in comparison are the linkages on the pointy? Would they make the spring seem harder or softer than when fitted to the gixxer?
yorkie_chris
18-02-10, 01:50 PM
Just look at spring rate, I would guess the wheel rate you need is not actually that different.
I think the pointy is about 2:1 linkage at start of stroke. Zadar is man to ask about that.
chris8886
23-02-10, 03:01 PM
Just looking at this table (and yes i do realise was posted a while back) i think my best option (for K7 and weighing around 10stone mark) would be the 04/05GSXR 600 shock?
Is that a correct theory? Or is there a better suited shock for me?
Cheers
Dan
sorry to dig this up again, but i'm also looking for a shock and going on the above i'm thinking i don't need anything much different. as i only weigh about 1.5 stone more, any helpful thoughts as well as the deserved flaming (bearing in mind i am a numpty at this stuff)?
yorkie_chris
23-02-10, 04:48 PM
sorry to dig this up again, but i'm also looking for a shock and going on the above i'm thinking i don't need anything much different. as i only weigh about 1.5 stone more, any helpful thoughts as well as the deserved flaming (bearing in mind i am a numpty at this stuff)?
Curvy has a different linkage and needs to be stiffer.
11.5 stone you'd want a #550-600 spring
sorry to dig this up again, but i'm also looking for a shock and going on the above i'm thinking i don't need anything much different. as i only weigh about 1.5 stone more, any helpful thoughts as well as the deserved flaming (bearing in mind i am a numpty at this stuff)?
a 08 ZX10R went in my sv nice nicely over the wknd with the help of spannerman, was a perfect fit needing only a bit of battery tray cutting, its a 100% improvement. no change in ride height.
You can have a go on my sv and try it out.
HTH
-Ralph-
23-02-10, 08:15 PM
I picked up a 09 ZX10R shock for mine yesterday. It's a pointy, but I'm a fat barsteward, so the spring rate (9.1kg or 510lb) is about dead on what Race-Tech's spring calculator says I need and is 8mm longer than my current shock
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/zx10r09shock.jpg
Not many folk seem to put ZX10R shocks in the pointy, 'cos you'd need to be a chunky monkey to need that spring rate, so has anyone on here done it, and if so how did you reposition your battery?
Also can anyone tell me what good settings for high/low compression damping and rebound will be so I can set these on the shock before installing. I vary between 15 and 16 stone.
The guy did give me the ZX10R bottom bolt with it.
Cheers
you can download the service menu for the ZX10, there is lots of info on shock setup, setting won't be the same as its on different bike, but its a start, hth
-Ralph-
23-02-10, 11:03 PM
you can download the service menu for the ZX10, there is lots of info on shock setup, setting won't be the same as its on different bike, but its a start, hth
Thanks, I'll go and google that.
Did your shock look the same (ie: copper body, silver spring?). Just wondering when they changed the shock from the one with the red spring. Do you know who manufactures that shock (ie: showa, WP, etc)
a 08 ZX10R went in my sv nice nicely over the wknd with the help of spannerman, was a perfect fit needing only a bit of battery tray cutting, its a 100% improvement. no change in ride height.
You can have a go on my sv and try it out.
HTH
Lucas, what did you do with your battery?
Thanks
11.5 stone you'd want a #550-600 spring
How heavy is 1 stone?:)
Thanks, I'll go and google that.
Do you know who manufactures that shock (ie: showa, WP, etc)
KYB
How heavy is 1 stone?:)
Depend, if is big or small:)
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 11:08 AM
How heavy is 1 stone?:)
14#
chris8886
24-02-10, 01:45 PM
Curvy has a different linkage and needs to be stiffer.
11.5 stone you'd want a #550-600 spring
this doesn't mean a great deal to me but, having had a look at the chart again. i think i've come to the decision that an 04/05 zx10 shock would be best as it has an imperial (weight measurement i presume, which is the number you've put there chris?) of 559. whereas an 08 zx10 is 510. although i doubt i'd really notice any difference between these would i?! oh and the weight i stated was minus helmet and other kit. so would the number change from that?
a 08 ZX10R went in my sv nice nicely over the wknd with the help of spannerman, was a perfect fit needing only a bit of battery tray cutting, its a 100% improvement. no change in ride height.
You can have a go on my sv and try it out.
HTH
yes please matey, would be much apprieciated. you going to be at soho this week?
Right questions.... :)
Bike: K5 Pointy, half faired, 13K miles.
Me: 100kgs without kit, 6ft.
Just replaced the front springs with .95 or .9 (I forget what the units are, kg/mm??) and replaced the oil with 20W Silikone(brand of oil, I think its spelt like that!).
What rear shock am I looking at? Bike gets ridden fairly hard, coupled with me being heavyish.
I can't use the table until I know what the spring rate I need is... Is it the same as the front? -95 (kg/mm??)
Cheers :D
Sally.
Lucas, what did you do with your battery?
Thanks
there is a metal plate on the tank hinge that holds the battery, that'll need cutting off, then the battery tray to allow shock reservoir to fit. the battery is moved up 40-50mm ish, leaving a small gap between it, reservoir and seat underside. the fuse box tray have to go, then just relocat the fuse box where ever fits.
i'll take some pics over the wknd, i'll be a lot clearer :D
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 02:21 PM
this doesn't mean a great deal to me but, having had a look at the chart again. i think i've come to the decision that an 04/05 zx10 shock would be best as it has an imperial (weight measurement i presume, which is the number you've put there chris?) of 559. whereas an 08 zx10 is 510. although i doubt i'd really notice any difference between these would i?! oh and the weight i stated was minus helmet and other kit. so would the number change from that?
# I gave is rate in lbs per inch.
For example I have 630# spring and that give sag of 10mm static 35mm total approx. I am 12.5 stone/175lbs.
chris8886
24-02-10, 02:31 PM
# I gave is rate in lbs per inch.
For example I have 630# spring and that give sag of 10mm static 35mm total approx. I am 12.5 stone/175lbs.
:confused: :smt104 i have absolutely no idea what that means! lol. are the ones i suggested above suitable do you think?
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 02:33 PM
Do you take a pillion a lot?
With ZXR shock if you are riding fast the lack of ground clearance is annoying.
there is a metal plate on the tank hinge that holds the battery, that'll need cutting off, then the battery tray to allow shock reservoir to fit. the battery is moved up 40-50mm ish, leaving a small gap between it, reservoir and seat underside. the fuse box tray have to go, then just relocat the fuse box where ever fits.
i'll take some pics over the wknd, i'll be a lot clearer :D
I'd appreciate that, thanks. :)
chris8886
24-02-10, 04:04 PM
Do you take a pillion a lot?
With ZXR shock if you are riding fast the lack of ground clearance is annoying.
i rarely take a pillion so that doesn't bother me too much and i figure it'll feel better than it does on the rare occasion that i do take one.
when you say fast riding can lead to a lack of ground clearance, is the ground clearance any different to what it is now? as i'm quite happy with how it is currently when i go on track days. i can get my knee down no problem without scraping the footpegs.
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 04:11 PM
The stock naked pegs p*ssed me right off with the lack of clearance.
I used SRAD 750 shock first, that was good length, about 350mm. But too light in spring, softer than stock. Could be good for you as you're a little lighter than me and as you say rarely have pillion.
ZX6R 05-06 is other one I have experience of, spring rate was better, a little stiffer than stock. But it is about 335mm rather than 337 of stock so it lowers the bike when actually you want to raise it.
SUPERSTARDJ01
24-02-10, 04:57 PM
wow 23 pages, hot topic, ZX6 shock a lot better than a ZX10, I had a zx10 on my zx6 and swapped it for a zx6 as the zx10 was far too hard.
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 05:00 PM
wow 23 pages, hot topic, ZX6 shock a lot better than a ZX10, I had a zx10 on my zx6 and swapped it for a zx6 as the zx10 was far too hard.
You can't say anything is better based on that logic. Look at B1 ZX6R, they kick you in the rse every ripple you hit, but shock is actually pretty compliant on the SV, just the linkage of the ZX6 makes it feel harsh.
What year shocks you have/use?
-Ralph-
24-02-10, 05:40 PM
Right questions.... :)
Bike: K5 Pointy, half faired, 13K miles.
Me: 100kgs without kit, 6ft.
Just replaced the front springs with .95 or .9 (I forget what the units are, kg/mm??) and replaced the oil with 20W Silikone(brand of oil, I think its spelt like that!).
What rear shock am I looking at? Bike gets ridden fairly hard, coupled with me being heavyish.
I can't use the table until I know what the spring rate I need is... Is it the same as the front? -95 (kg/mm??)
Cheers :D
Sally.
You are the same weight as me and we are both on pointy's. The Race Tech Spring rate calculator said
03-07 Suzuki SV650S
Type of Riding: Street
Rider Weight (without gear): 100kgs
Recommended Fork Spring Rate for Street: 0.901 kg/mm (use closest available)
Recommended Rear Shock Spring Rate for Street: 8.81 kg/mm (use closest available)
Use closest available - Which is why I bought the ZX10R 09 shock at 9.1 kg/mm because it's within 0.3 of the recommended figure. The only other shock that close was the 03/04 GSXR1000 at 8.6, but given the choice of a 1 year old shock with negligable mileage, or a 6-7 year old shock it, to me anyway, was a no brainer. And the ZX10R shock has more adjustment (not that I'd know what to do with it, but I'll take it to an expert to be set up if I need to).
I should add the caveat that I know nothing, I've just made decisions based up what I have read on here and if it turns out to be no good, I'll fling the shock back on ebay. If this is bad advice I'm giving Sally, somebody please shout up!
I've also upgraded the forks with 0.9 linear K-Tech springs and 15w oil.
I have no idea what I'm going to do with my battery, I don't know if there is space on the pointy to turn it on it's side or if I need to buy a smaller battery, or indeed if it's just not possible to fit that shock (again in which case it'll go back on fleabay).
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 05:42 PM
Most interesting one I have seen is DavieSV using sachs from an aprilia.
I've got the 05 ZX10 on a K2. Feels spot on, such a massive improvement. Can't compare it to anything other than stock SV but i'd imagine it was quite firm in comparison to others.
No ground clearence issues either, got after market rearsets on though.
You are the same weight as me and we are both on pointy's. The Race Tech Spring rate calculator said
03-07 Suzuki SV650S
Type of Riding: Street
Rider Weight (without gear): 100kgs
Recommended Fork Spring Rate for Street: 0.901 kg/mm (use closest available)
Recommended Rear Shock Spring Rate for Street: 8.81 kg/mm (use closest available)
Use closest available - Which is why I bought the ZX10R 09 shock at 9.1 kg/mm because it's within 0.3 of the recommended figure. The only other shock that close was the 03/04 GSXR1000 at 8.6, but given the choice of a 1 year old shock with negligable mileage, or a 6-7 year old shock it, to me anyway, was a no brainer. And the ZX10R shock has more adjustment (not that I'd know what to do with it, but I'll take it to an expert to be set up if I need to).
I should add the caveat that I know nothing, I've just made decisions based up what I have read on here and if it turns out to be no good, I'll fling the shock back on ebay. If this is bad advice I'm giving Sally, somebody please shout up!
I've also upgraded the forks with 0.9 linear K-Tech springs and 15w oil.
Yeah a 09' 10R shock sounds like a good shout!
Any ideas when you're going to try to fit it?
Where did you get the data for the 09' from?
The table only goes up to 08'!
Cheers, Sally.
yorkie_chris
24-02-10, 09:15 PM
racetech might have it
-Ralph-
24-02-10, 09:32 PM
Yeah a 09' 10R shock sounds like a good shout!
Any ideas when you're going to try to fit it?
Where did you get the data for the 09' from?
The table only goes up to 08'!
Cheers, Sally.
The model number of the bike that the shock comes from is the same model as was being produced in 08. Whether that's because the model didn't change in 09, or because the owner bought an 08 model out of 1 yr old dealer stock, I don't know. It could have been an 08 model bike that wasn't registered until 09.
The difference between the 08' and 09' could have been minimal?
If so, the shock would have been similiar?
When you thinking of fitting it?
Just to see how you get on!?
How do you find the springs with 15W oil?
I have the same springs, but used 20W oil!
SUPERSTARDJ01
24-02-10, 10:10 PM
You can't say anything is better based on that logic. Look at B1 ZX6R, they kick you in the rse every ripple you hit, but shock is actually pretty compliant on the SV, just the linkage of the ZX6 makes it feel harsh.
What year shocks you have/use?
Just giving my experience with both, and I don't find the suspenion on the zx that bad at least you can feel the road unlike the curveys spongy suspenion.
-Ralph-
24-02-10, 10:40 PM
The difference between the 08' and 09' could have been minimal?
If so, the shock would have been similiar?
When you thinking of fitting it?
Just to see how you get on!?
How do you find the springs with 15W oil?
I have the same springs, but used 20W oil!
Don't know to any of that yet mate, the bike is still in pieces. I'll let you know how I get on though.
whatever you choose, it'll be a improvement :D
yes please matey, would be much apprieciated. you going to be at soho this week?
not sure if there is a meet tomorrow(friday) as its pizza meet tonight!
chris8886
25-02-10, 01:09 PM
not sure if there is a meet tomorrow(friday) as its pizza meet tonight!
ofc there will be!! i'm going to be going to pizza night though as well, if i can find my way there :rolleyes: you going?
ofc there will be!! i'm going to be going to pizza night though as well, if i can find my way there :rolleyes: you going?
have problems with headlights killing the battery so no night riding for me :???:
I'm heading over to spannerman for a new cam tensioner and light fix tomorrow so hopefully sv will be fit for purpose again :D I see you tomorrow night then.
derail over
Liam9188
25-02-10, 01:22 PM
Just ordered a 04 ZX10R shock and ohlins fork springs from ebay! wooo!!
Where might one find the bolt I need for the bottom link?
Just ordered a 04 ZX10R shock and ohlins fork springs from ebay! wooo!!
Where might one find the bolt I need for the bottom link?
got mine from http://cradleykawasaki.co.uk/ for around £7.
newts924
25-02-10, 10:55 PM
Am i right in thinking that a gsxr 1000 k4 would be suitable for me on my K6.
I don't want the height to change that much as i am a short ****, but i am a little fat short **** weighing around 14 stone.
Also would this fit without any cutting of the battery box???
I have read through all the posts in this thread and i am still none the wiser :confused: As you can tell i am not technically minded :smt104
PS. Front end is standard at the moment
Thanks :???:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t247/bigfastyellow2/SV650/ShockSwapChart.jpg
Am i right in thinking that a gsxr 1000 k4 would be suitable for me on my K6.
Hope so. That's what I've got :) (yet to fit it)
Just bought a 08/09 ZX10R rear shock off ebay yesterday!
£35 quid + P&P, bargain :)
Thanks to YC for the advice!
dizzyblonde
26-02-10, 10:10 AM
why do people put shocks in that weren't designed for your bike?
Wouldn't it be so much easier to research which companies make SV specific shock, and just wack it in and have done with it?
Much simpler than the mathematics of this that and the other to 'make it fit' then finding you have to change the front end as well because the back end wasn't supposed to be in there in the first place, and no chopping of battery boxes.
My suspension is perfect for me, as it was designed for my bike in the first place.
why do people put shocks in that weren't designed for your bike?
Cost.
And cos they're still a lot better than the stock one.
Oh and cos fitting is a relatively easy job.
I think that covers it.
yorkie_chris
26-02-10, 01:01 PM
why do people put shocks in that weren't designed for your bike?
Wouldn't it be so much easier to research which companies make SV specific shock, and just wack it in and have done with it?
Much simpler than the mathematics of this that and the other to 'make it fit' then finding you have to change the front end as well because the back end wasn't supposed to be in there in the first place, and no chopping of battery boxes.
My suspension is perfect for me, as it was designed for my bike in the first place.
Mathematics is not my strong point but I can see that £35 is much less than £250 :smt064
And you will have to change the front end anyway (as you have), because it wasn't designed to support the gut of the average brit.
bodging in a shock and fitting some stiffer fork springs is the best mod you can do for the money.
Your suspension perfect? No, it is just the best you have tried. There is no such thing as perfect suspension.
dizzyblonde
26-02-10, 01:24 PM
Says you who paid 400 odd quid ~:-)
I haven't changed the front end??, its an SV set of forks with a like for like progressive spring replacement, made for Suzukis ideal weight type person.:confused: The monoshock was built and designed for an SV, and was done to be a direct but better replacement for the stock one...for road riding.
When I say change front end, I mean, changing the front end, ie like you have for other forks that aren't SV forks.
My suspension is perfect for me(well after the allan key has turned the hole a quarter of a turn on the rear ;-) ), as I am an easy wieght to work with, I can understand people wishing to look for a shock that suits their needs, but just because someone was lucky with a zx10 for example doesn't mean its great for everyone.
When I say perfect for me, it is smooth handling, not sharp turning like you've jacked up the back or something, not saggy and wallowy, not rock hard on the old 'arris, and not stiff on the front. Its not too bad for a 12 stone bloke either, as Carnivore thought it was absolutely 100% improvement,
I certainly wouldn't want a shock put in that someone has recommended to be great for them, then find its god awful for me, as it upsets the geometry of the bike its been put in.
I'm not causing an arguement, I just wonder why so many people end up having to ask so many questions, once they have shoved in a shock only to realise it needs more than just shoving in and forgetting about (unlike me, as I picked wisely or was lucky) I understand that people prefer to go for the cheaper option, but sometimes wish they hadn't, as it gives em a headache as they don't understand how to set it up. So why not pay a little more and get what you expect?
Why then do they do this? I don't see those that put a like for like replacement or a more expensive replacement specifically engineered for the SV, actually having to ask many questions if ever at all.
Its just an observation and it really does make me wonder, are all these other bike shocks really that good, or is it just luck of the draw, especially if you aren't knowledgeable.
yorkie_chris
26-02-10, 01:33 PM
If you remember we measured sag and adjusted preload on your hagon, direct fit? Shock from other bike just needs same.
People ask so many questions because they would rather use their brains, than their credit card.
Says you who paid 400 odd quid ~:-)
I haven't changed the front end??, its an SV set of forks with a like for like progressive spring replacement, made for Suzukis ideal weight type person.:confused: The monoshock was built and designed for an SV, and was done to be a direct but better replacement for the stock one...for road riding.
When I say change front end, I mean, changing the front end, ie like you have for other forks that aren't SV forks.
Yes says me, I have tried different springs, oil, couple of shocks from other bike... and springs and oil in front and different shock on back is best value for money for normal riding.
Penske is better, but if you don't want to spend that much then there are improvements to be had for less.
A spring is a spring is a spring. Changing the front end can include changing the preload (couple of washers), thicker oil, stiffer springs, drilling/closing damper rod holes.
It's not a "like for like" conversion, you have changed spring rate, you have made a change to the front end :)
What are you on about suzukis ideal weight type person? That is like 6 stone. You change springs, you change the ideal weight for the forks.
dizzyblonde
26-02-10, 01:54 PM
Ahhhh I seeeeees. ;-)
Did you, I just remember sitting on my bike after it had been fitted, and you came out with the spanner adjuster and bish bosh done :-) No chopping of bits here, there and everywhere.
You are lucky to have a garage full of jacks, stands, tools, are a mechanical engineering student, can baffle me and others with technical speak (and bore me too..lol), understand how you can change things doing 'x' but remedy it doing 'y'....
Was it really that cost effective to experiment with all that stuff? and no you can't try out my suspension, shes gone on SORN today:joker:
Nah, not six stone..ten :-)
-Ralph-
26-02-10, 02:22 PM
My suspension is perfect for me(well after the allan key has turned the hole a quarter of a turn on the rear ;-) ), as I am an easy wieght to work with, I can understand people wishing to look for a shock that suits their needs, but just because someone was lucky with a zx10 for example doesn't mean its great for everyone.
Glad your suspension is perfect for you, but looking at the demographics on this forum, you are not the average SV rider. Which kinds of suggests it's not perfect for the majority.
Was anyone suggesting any particular shock was great for everyone?
I certainly wouldn't want a shock put in that someone has recommended to be great for them, then find its god awful for me, as it upsets the geometry of the bike its been put in.
I'm not causing an arguement, I just wonder why so many people end up having to ask so many questions
Nobody would want to put a shock in that upsets the geometry, that's why they ask so many questions, and don't just blindly follow what somebody else has done.
are all these other bike shocks really that good, or is it just luck of the draw, especially if you aren't knowledgeable.
The shocks themselves are really that good yes, they are the manufacturers choice for their best selling, leading edge, £9000 flagship sports bikes. Taking all that expensive research and development and putting on a cheap bike like the SV and making it work for you, may require a bit of thought and planning, and maybe a bit of trial and error, and hence results in a lot of questions.
So why not pay a little more and get what you expect?
Because a made for purpose shock costs anything from 250 to 500 quid. The lower end of that price range (Hagon, etc) don't have the adjustability either and are not that much better than a brand new one from Suzuki. Yes there's some improvement, but when people do it and find a big improvement, how many miles was on the shock they just replaced? I'm heavy, and don't give the bike an easy life, but my original shock was practically un-rideable after 16000 miles, just fitting a low mileage Suzuki shock was a massive improvement.
For most the cost of such a replacement would be from 10% to a third of the value of the bike, depending what shock you buy and how old your bike is. Personally I would never spend that kind of money in order to change the suspension on the SV, I'd put the money towards the trade in on a bike with better suspension.
barwel1992
26-02-10, 03:05 PM
Am i right in thinking that a gsxr 1000 k4 would be suitable for me on my K6.
I don't want the height to change that much as i am a short ****, but i am a little fat short **** weighing around 14 stone.
Also would this fit without any cutting of the battery box???
I have read through all the posts in this thread and i am still none the wiser :confused: As you can tell i am not technically minded :smt104
PS. Front end is standard at the moment
Thanks :???:
i have the k3 gsxr1000 shock on my k3 and you still have to cut the battery box i also belive because the k3 has a higer ass than your k6 you will need to to cut more out of the box or even remove somthing (i think thats what i read)
any way its a simple job but you do need the right tool and parts
tools needed/equipment (what i used)
stand that lifts the rear wheel EG abba stand you cannot use a rear paddock stand
brake bar to get rear wheel/shock bolts and dogbone bolts undone
sockets
torque wrench
small stanley knife or saw blade to cut the battery box
you will need to greace the linkages as suzuki dont know what greace is lol, also use thread lock on all the bolts (blue stuf not red)
parts
Shock
order 1 x 09103-10143 BOLT 1 x 08319-31107 NUT from suzuki for the bottom of the shock
thats about it i think, apart from remember to ziptie the front brake on lol
why do people put shocks in that weren't designed for your bike?
Wouldn't it be so much easier to research which companies make SV specific shock, and just wack it in and have done with it?
Much simpler than the mathematics of this that and the other to 'make it fit' then finding you have to change the front end as well because the back end wasn't supposed to be in there in the first place, and no chopping of battery boxes.
My suspension is perfect for me, as it was designed for my bike in the first place.
£50 quid linear springs, £10.99 20W oil and £35 for a 4K miles ZX10R rear shock?
Better suspension for less than 100 notes, can't complain...
The SV suspension, coupled with a 17 stone fully kitted up biker and then add amazing Scottish roads, equals a fustrated Sally..
The suspension just isn't built for me, hence I am changing it, maybe I will see an improvement, maybe I won't, but will just sell it on if it doesn't....
I would say the SV suspension is built for a skinny 8 stone, 5ft4" European, not a 6ft 16 stone Scotsman who has a liking for beer and fatty foods :)
yorkie_chris
26-02-10, 04:32 PM
Was it really that cost effective to experiment with all that stuff? and no you can't try out my suspension, shes gone on SORN today:joker:
Nah, not six stone..ten :-)
Cost effective yes. If I broke the bike for parts tomorrow I'd lose less than I would if I'd fitted hagon F+R or some other "OEM replacement" shock.
Plus, knowledge has no price. And you cannot learn until you try things out.
You miss my point, the stock forks are designed for someone of 6 stone. By changing the springs you change the weight they are designed for.
Because a made for purpose shock costs anything from 250 to 500 quid. The lower end of that price range (Hagon, etc) don't have the adjustability either and are not that much better than a brand new one from Suzuki. Yes there's some improvement, but when people do it and find a big improvement, how many miles was on the shock they just replaced? I'm heavy, and don't give the bike an easy life, but my original shock was practically un-rideable after 16000 miles, just fitting a low mileage Suzuki shock was a massive improvement.
£500 and the rest :smt003
Penske 8987 which is the all singing all dancing model* with high and low speed compression adjuster is about USD1300
You don't notice suspension getting worse, because it goes slowly. Then it gets past a point where it is actually dangerous.
*For that you get it built for you, your spring rate, valving to match, are you fast road/comfort/race, support. Etc. Etc. And they hold money well, and can be adapted to fit different bikes.
Hagon do not actually ask what weight you are, you just get "a shock" 'cos it's progressive, innit!
Is it just me or does the 08 ZX10 shock not fit the SV.
Just something i've heard though...
yorkie_chris
26-02-10, 05:48 PM
Is it just me or does the 08 ZX10 shock not fit the SV.
Just something i've heard though...
I think "the shadow" tried it on curvy and it was way soft. Dunno whether that's spring rate or what. Could have been an 09 shock too.
Al just sell it if it doesn't!
WB fitted one to his curvy just now!
Theres a thread going about!
Is it ZX10 shock to length 338mm for 2 gen.?
-Ralph-
27-02-10, 08:34 AM
Is it ZX10 shock to length 338mm for 2 gen.?
Not sure what you mean by 2 gen
2004 onwards are all 338mm according to CheGuevara's table. Maybe he can confirm his source.
There's a model specification table on here that shows the shock being changed in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_ZX-10R
You can tell the difference because the 08 onwards shock has a copper body and a silver spring, earlier shocks have a red spring.
yorkie_chris
27-02-10, 08:40 AM
2gen = pointy i.e 2nd generation.
-Ralph-
27-02-10, 08:53 AM
2gen = pointy i.e 2nd generation.
Well I realised it meant second generation, but he was taking about a ZX10R shock, which is the same length regardless of which SV you put it in, so I assumed 2nd gen he would have to relate to the ZX10R it came out of, not the SV it was going into, hence the wiki link. As it happens we think 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen ZX10R all have the same length.
Sorry for my bad english:)
S650 k5 shock length 330mm, zx10 338mm.
8mm difference.
Is it change something to better or worst?
yorkie_chris
27-02-10, 11:55 AM
Better so long as the spring rate is good for you.
I have seen 340mm recommended for pointy on racing shock with adjustable height.
-Ralph-
27-02-10, 12:04 PM
Sorry for my bad english:)
S650 k5 shock length 330mm, zx10 338mm.
8mm difference.
Is it change something to better or worst?
It will raise the back end which is generally thought to be a good thing. The ZX10R shock has adjustable ride height however, so you may be able to compensate if you don't like it.
People don't generally put ZX10R shocks in a K3 onwards (pointy), as the spring rates are too hard for what they need. I am only using the ZX10R because I am quite fat. Check the spring rate is correct for you.
yorkie_chris
27-02-10, 12:12 PM
Which one has adjustable ride height? 05 doesn't.
Maybe new copper coloured ones have, but others are adjusted by shimming the top mount which is a seperate part on the ZXR
I'm 87 kg with full gear.(190 pounds)
Rear shock is wilbers 59/59-70N/mm-185 spring leng
Front end gsxr 600 k7 spring 0.9kg/mm
Recommendation for track rear shock 8.6-9 kg/mm 500lbs
zx10 08/09 shock 9.1 kg/mm spring
-Ralph-
27-02-10, 04:50 PM
Maybe new copper coloured ones have
Yep.
yorkie_chris
27-02-10, 07:27 PM
Yep.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/zx10r09shock.jpg
this one?
Where?
here are the pics of a 08 ZX10R in a curvy :D
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100952.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100962.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100964.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100956.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100958.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af185/WonkyView/Bike%20Stuff/P1100960.jpg
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 12:23 PM
Good stuff.
What sag numbers you ended up with?
-Ralph-
28-02-10, 12:59 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/zx10r09shock.jpg
this one?
Where?
Haven't had mine out yet, opened the box but the shock itself is wrapped in several layers of cling film. Doesn't seem to be adjustable in that photo right enough, both mounting points top and bottom are fixed and I don't know how it would be adjusted on the shock itself. If you google it some websites say the shock itself is adjustable (though note a few of the websites that say this are American!), some say it's adjustable by adding shims. Kawasaki's website doesn't seem to say.
Maybe CheGuevara can confirm his source as his table says adjustable for ride height for the 08 shock.
yorkie_chris
28-02-10, 01:01 PM
Older one has clevis on top with big (20mm ish) thread, but this is how it mounts and you add washers to increase height.
This doesn't work on SV 'cos the clevis is part of the frame.
-Ralph-
28-02-10, 01:10 PM
Older one has clevis on top with big (20mm ish) thread, but this is how it mounts and you add washers to increase height.
This doesn't work on SV 'cos the clevis is part of the frame.
I have the clevis, as the thread is sticking out of the top of the cling film, but obviously I won't be using it.
TheShadow
28-02-10, 05:20 PM
Lucas,
How do you find that shock? i have a similer one in my curvy but find that its very soft , when i sit on the bike the ride height drops a fair bit even with full preload.
If yours is fine with the stock spring somethin must be wrong with mine as i am a light chap.
Lucas,
How do you find that shock? i have a similer one in my curvy but find that its very soft , when i sit on the bike the ride height drops a fair bit even with full preload.
If yours is fine with the stock spring somethin must be wrong with mine as i am a light chap.
only covered about 50miles on it so far, but compared to the ten year old shock, the zx10 shock is a 100% improvment. I can feel the tyre & road interaction better, while bumps are smoothed out and I don't bounce any more :D
i'm 11st and the shock feels fine at the moment, sitting on bike it sinks the same amount as my old shock. haven't done fast-fast rides on it yet so not idea how the current setting will do...
anyway, these are the settings:
preload = 179mm (spring end to end length)
low speed compression = 1 turn from full clockwise
high speed compression = 2 3/4 turn from full clockwise
rebound = 2 turns out from full clockwise
will be playing around with these settings over the next months :D
HTH
here are the pics of a 08 ZX10R in a curvy :D
Excellent. Thanks for those. http://forums.sv650.org/images/icons/icon14.gif :)
TheShadow
01-03-10, 05:50 PM
When trying to get the shock to feel good i only changed the screw adjusters. Compression and rebound. I take it the other adjuster is the bolt shaped one what does this do?
yorkie_chris
01-03-10, 06:13 PM
Bolt shaped one near reservoir around the outside of comp. adjuster screw is highspeed compression adjuster.
Liam9188
01-03-10, 09:59 PM
Fitted my zx10r rear shock to my curvy today. a short test ride proved it to be a massive improvement, giving a better ride and much more confidence accelerating over bumpy tarmac. Can't wait to play around with the settings and really get it working nicely. Which screw is which?
yorkie_chris
01-03-10, 10:00 PM
One at top is comp.
One at bottom is rebound.
-Ralph-
01-03-10, 10:01 PM
One at top is comp.
One at bottom is rebound.
Come on then, what should I set them at? Save me googling for a manual! :p
-Ralph-
01-03-10, 10:03 PM
giving a better ride and much more confidence accelerating over bumpy tarmac
Your old shock must have been pretty knackered, I only know one road where I can get my SV (pointy) to wag it's head over full throttle bumps, and that's over a hill in Scotland. The SV normally just doesn't have the power.
Liam9188
02-03-10, 03:39 AM
Your old shock must have been pretty knackered, I only know one road where I can get my SV (pointy) to wag it's head over full throttle bumps, and that's over a hill in Scotland. The SV normally just doesn't have the power.
If the rear doesn't squirm when you open the throttle while leant over on bumps, then you have no need to change your shock...
-Ralph-
02-03-10, 07:49 AM
If the rear doesn't squirm when you open the throttle while leant over on bumps, then you have no need to change your shock...
Maybe if that's the only rear shock issue that you ever have with the bike. I think you'd need to be female or a built like a racing snake, never carrying a pillion, and a very smooth progressive rider everywhere you go for that to be the case.
I've certainly lived with the SV shock for 22k miles without feeling the desperate need to do anything about it. You just need to make sure the bike is nicely settled BEFORE tipping into corners. I did develop a problem with the front forks, which turned out to be completely emulsified oil, so those have been upgraded, and the bike is off the road and in bits anyway, so that's why I've decided to do the rear shock now.
Put a 15-16st stone rider, 9-10 stone pillion, a couple of stones of gear, and a couple of stone of luggage on the SV, and you soon realise the rear shock is struggling.
Even when riding solo, it's not just squirming in corners either, lack of damping control on the stock shock can cause it to wag the bars upright in a straight line, not that common on a 70bhp bike, but like I say I know one road where I could provoke it every time.
It also has a habit of kicking your ar$e out of the seat on a big mid bump corner, quite common unfortunately, especially if you went into the bend trail braking, or quite aggressive on tip in and the suspension had other things to deal with at the time, you can get the SV into a right mess there if provoked. The SV does need smooth riding, you can't force it along or it turns into a pogo stick.
Liam9188
02-03-10, 11:44 AM
I don't suffer so badly, being just 9 and half stone. It certainly wasn't up to the task of the bumpy back roads around north yorkshire with both me and the missus on board though. Was having to go very slowly indeed. It would be interesting to try that again now though
CheGuevara
02-03-10, 04:40 PM
Not sure what you mean by 2 gen
2004 onwards are all 338mm according to CheGuevara's table. Maybe he can confirm his source.
Sorry, no can do.
I found info from several places on the web (after much digging), and didn't keep record of what came from where. I only really made the table for myself so I could easily make a best-guess as to which shock would be most suitable for me. I ended up with the ZX6RR and it has worked very well for me (>16st + gear).
I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of the figures, but I can guarantee I didn't make them up myself :)
The notes were just tidbits pinched from various manuals/brochures/reviews online where that information was made avaialble.
Liam9188
02-03-10, 05:48 PM
Ohlins fork springs have arrived, just waiting for the new oil and seals!!
Front end feels terrible compared to the rear now, so i cant wait to get them on
yorkie_chris
02-03-10, 05:49 PM
on a big mid bump corner,
That must be a massive bump to have a corner on it :smt043
Liam9188
04-03-10, 04:55 PM
right, I've now fitted both my ZX10R rear shock and my ohlins fork springs, and i have to say, amazing difference! the bike glides over bumps and potholes like they aren't there providing confidence and stability in bucket loads. Very much recommended.
I did notice that the new fork springs are slightly shorter than the stock ones, which did worry me when i was fitting them as i didn't have any spacers to correct this with, but that doesn't seem to effect it at all. I'll take her for a thrash this weekend and see if the spacers are needed. I suppose that just mean't there was less preload on the springs, which doesn't matter too much
-Ralph-
04-03-10, 04:57 PM
right, I've now fitted both my ZX10R rear shock and my ohlins fork springs, and i have to say, amazing difference! the bike glides over bumps and potholes like they aren't there providing confidence and stability in bucket loads. Very much recommended.
I did notice that the new fork springs are slightly shorter than the stock ones, which did worry me when i was fitting them as i didn't have any spacers to correct this with, but that doesn't seem to effect it at all. I'll take her for a thrash this weekend and see if the spacers are needed. I suppose that just mean't there was less preload on the springs, which doesn't matter too much
Mine are the same but I haven't ridden on them yet. Did you measure static sag? It may just be because the springs are stiffer they need less preload.
Liam9188
04-03-10, 04:59 PM
I didn't, no. I did think that it would be un-necessary with the stiffer springs. There was about a 8-10mm difference though, so it is significant
-Ralph-
04-03-10, 05:19 PM
I didn't, no. I did think that it would be un-necessary with the stiffer springs. There was about a 8-10mm difference though, so it is significant
Mine were K-Tech springs, there was 20mm difference. I would expect the fork assembly to be 20mm shorter because of the shorter spring, but sag a bit less because of the stiffer spring, so compensating a bit. Measuring the sag against what it should be for the bike however, will tell you if you need a longer spacer. Icanhopit helped me with mine and gave me a sheet of paper with the acceptable sag, etc. I can post up what it says on here if you need it.
Liam9188
04-03-10, 05:45 PM
cheers. I'm gonna set it up properly this weekend, make sure i have the correct air gap etc. so I'll do it then
You can't just put 20mm shorter springs without putting new longer spacer in.
You should have some initial preload on spring when forks are fully extended (about 10mm is norm), otherwise you will have forks not working properly on extension.
Yes, stiffer spring will sag less under bike weight all else equal but spring is there for you, not bike alone. You still need initial preload on it.
-Ralph-
05-03-10, 02:50 PM
You can't just put 20mm shorter springs without putting new longer spacer in.
You should have some initial preload on spring when forks are fully extended (about 10mm is norm), otherwise you will have forks not working properly on extension.
Yes, stiffer spring will sag less under bike weight all else equal but spring is there for you, not bike alone. You still need initial preload on it.
OK, thanks. I'll have to get some tubing and make some spacers then.
Anybody recommend a pipe to use that they found in B&Q or some such place? Without having to buy two bloody metres of it!
Owenski
05-03-10, 03:30 PM
if your just on about plastic plumbing pipe I know our local plumb centre sell it by the foot.
-Ralph-
05-03-10, 03:50 PM
if your just on about plastic plumbing pipe I know our local plumb centre sell it by the foot.
OK, thanks. I look and see if I have a Plumb Centre. Or if Screwfix do the same. I don't think I've ever seen short lengths in B&Q but I could be wrong.
Owenski
05-03-10, 04:07 PM
Na I dont think you are, its about 1.8m min from B&Q only benifit from there is the staff know nothing so you can swap the labels over and get a 3m length for 1.8 money....
Its not stealing, its been clever - honest officer.
Icanopit
05-03-10, 05:36 PM
Hi Colin, you may remember that I had no tube at the time and left the top caps loose? however I now have ample that I purchased to do my own, with a very good wall thickness larger than standard.
JOHN
yorkie_chris
05-03-10, 05:39 PM
I hope you don't mean you'd ride the bike like that
-Ralph-
05-03-10, 06:36 PM
Hi Colin, you may remember that I had no tube at the time and left the top caps loose? however I now have ample that I purchased to do my own, with a very good wall thickness larger than standard.
JOHN
I may just need to pay you a visit over the weekend! :D
There a sealed bottle here that's been sealed for far too long anyway, if I don't get it out of my sight soon, it's not going to be sealed for much longer! :drink:
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