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metalmonkey
13-03-10, 11:21 AM
This debate does get aired every so often...

Rather than giving the police guns shouldn't we be looking at the casue of the violent crime in the first place. When some is shot something has gone really wrong.

My own view is that if the government wanted to bring down crime then would do something about poverty in this country. It was reported in the last week or so that 40% of the children in London live on the poverty line or below it. If something was done about poverty, health care, housing and education it would really improve everyone's live in this country. Since Labour came into the power the gap between rich and poor has increased!

Fast foward to the street if the above was done there would be less violent crime, thus why would more police need carry guns? I hope this makes sense.

My self personally I have not use saftey equipment on anyone, I have worked in some pretty dam violent places. Last time I used baton was break in a house I think, casue someone collaspe inside that was well a while ago.

I have been punched, kicked, bitten and spat at more times than I remeber, however being armed wouldn't have made a difference. But a taser may have.

I don't think CS is a partically useful tactial option, I would prefer to have a taser as it gives better tactial options and used correctly a non-lethal use of force. However there are some people I have worked with I wouldn't trust with a water pistol. For any kind of force to used, it has to be justification for why it was use. Yes people get it wrong.

It should be noted the vast majority of people I have worked with are professional it only takes someone like Dizi to give the wrong image. When do you ever hear good news?

Going back to my orginal point, want to do something about crime then sort out the above. But since no one seems to care about it, things will carry the way they are and may even get worse.

BernardBikerchick
13-03-10, 11:41 AM
Probably gonna get pelted with olives for saying this .... but seriously if we had enough Jack Bauers' there would be no need for guns and I'm not joking !!! Really I'm not .... going round making people fall to the ground without any future illness or physical ramifications rocks and all at the touch of a hand !! - and gets the job done.

ethariel
13-03-10, 12:27 PM
Having read more of what has been written, a few points.

Some people totaly against firearms or even Tasers are for CS gas that can (and will again in the future) cause people to die due to allergies or the fact they have restricted breathing in the first place.

Firearms dont kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, firearms are only a means of killing, whether its a knife, a bottle, a firearm, those who kill will kill with whatever is at hand.

A firearm, i admit, does make it easier to kill and concel that which is used to kill.

Tasers can be classed as a weapon of 'Torture' but then again cuffing someone too tight, beating them with a baton, bashing thier face off the car door corner as you put them in a car, kicking the carp out of them in the back of a van are also forms of torture. HOWEVER most police dont do it, a small minority do.

Tasers can kill in exceptional circumstances, as can CS spray, as can a baton blow, as can the effect of being tackeled and falling to the ground.

The argument as i see it is 'Can the police be trusted to use <insert item here> responsibility AND is the risk of using <insert item here> justifiable in the circumstance to PROTECT the life of the police and/or the public at thet time.

Obviously a little hoodie giving lip is not a reasonable target to be tasered (tho it would be funny fo the little sh*t to get some comeuppance) by a police officer, however the thug waving a knife at a lone officer who shrugs off as dose of cs gas IS a viable target, its that or a round in the head which will he/she prfer at the end of the day.

As for people who die if tasered when comitting an offence, well if they were good law abiding citizens, they would be alive and well.

Anyhow enough rambling......

yorkie_chris
13-03-10, 01:10 PM
well if they were good law abiding citizens, they would be alive and well.

Funny that is what some people on here said about the people who got the crap kicked out of them and/or croaked during recent bout of protests which the police turned violent :rolleyes:

simesb
13-03-10, 01:24 PM
Some people totaly against firearms or even Tasers are for CS gas that can (and will again in the future) cause people to die due to allergies or the fact they have restricted breathing in the first place.

CS gas is not designed to kill but incapacitate. The same cannot be said for a gun which is designed to kill. BIG difference.


Firearms dont kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, firearms are only a means of killing, whether its a knife, a bottle, a firearm, those who kill will kill with whatever is at hand.

In the words of Eddie Izzard "They say that 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' Well I think the gun helps. If you just stood there and yelled BANG, I don't think you'd kill too many people."

Red Herring
13-03-10, 08:28 PM
No they shouldn't. I've got 23 years of front line operational experience behind me and I've never once needed a gun. I'd have liked one on several occasions, but I didn't actually need one! Of the incidents when I have come up against someone armed with a firearm not having one myself has been a distinct advantage. I've not felt threatened, and the person with the gun had no reason to threaten me with it, they knew full well I would walk away which is exactly what I did. Regrettably history has shown that in the majority of times when a copper has been shot by someone with a gun then it has been completely unexpected and even if the police officer had been armed they wouldn't have had a chance to use it. Personally I'm not a great fan of Tazers either and choose not to carry one. I do carry Parva, and I remember using it once (actually I think it was CS back then) and I also carry an ASP which I have used several times to break car windows. I generally find that when confronted by someone with a knife, other weapon, or even just bigger arms than me, then my best means of defence has been my ability to communicate and talk them round rather than what ever is festooned around my belt...