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Mej
12-03-10, 03:01 PM
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2010/March/mar0510-100bhp-limit-looms-again/?&R=EPI-122602

crap imo, hope it doesnt come in, along with the ABS.

fastdruid
12-03-10, 03:05 PM
In all seriousness it wouldn't bother *me*....

...but I'd still fight for your right to have a ridiculously overpowered bike with no ABS if you wanted.

Druid

G
12-03-10, 03:05 PM
Cant see it happening, surely impossible to enforce, and amazingly expensive.

Would they expect everyone to go out and pay a fortune to restrict their own bikes, or would they pay to have it done.

Could lead to some interesting really light weight 250cc bikes being produced though.

Dave20046
12-03-10, 03:05 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it, worry when BBC or someone starts covering it!

Dicky Ticker
12-03-10, 03:20 PM
It already applies in several EU countries so I wouldn't be surprised if our government follows the herd

muffles
12-03-10, 03:21 PM
It says the proposal will be to 'harmonise' not to 'restrict', too. At the bottom it says dedicated studies have failed to show any link between engine power and increase in safety. I think it's more likely they'll tell France to get rid of their restrictors rather than pay to fit them in bikes all around Europe.

BBadger
12-03-10, 04:36 PM
If they actually went through with it then it should also apply to cars, they go fast and crash often...much more than bikes aswell.

Jase22
12-03-10, 04:48 PM
In seriousness, would it really cause a problem to have a 100hp restriction? Whilst I'm not too keen on being told what to do and what I can and can't have, 100hp is more than ample on the road on a bike. And IMO anyone that argues otherwise either can't ride properly or should make their way into a race series.

Mej
12-03-10, 04:53 PM
better than 33bhp but it would still pee me off and i imagine millions wouldnt adhere.

emcf
12-03-10, 04:56 PM
In seriousness, would it really cause a problem to have a 100hp restriction? Whilst I'm not too keen on being told what to do and what I can and can't have, 100hp is more than ample on the road on a bike. And IMO anyone that argues otherwise either can't ride properly or should make their way into a race series.


i can see your point here but I still don't like the idea of having a restriction at 100BHP - I just can't see it being enforceable and sod's law dictates that it'll be the UK that implements it properly while the rest of europe just ignores it like they do to 90% of the other directives they can't be bothered with.

If we were to get a 100BHP limit then surely it would only be fair to restrict cars to a concomitant level of power. if that was to happen, cue lots of squeals from ferrari/BMW etc and before you know it the proposal would be dropped.

G
12-03-10, 04:56 PM
Yes, 100bhp is enough... by why should the goverment enforce that on everyone, that is the problem

fastdruid
12-03-10, 05:02 PM
In seriousness, would it really cause a problem to have a 100hp restriction? Whilst I'm not too keen on being told what to do and what I can and can't have, 100hp is more than ample on the road on a bike. And IMO anyone that argues otherwise either can't ride properly or should make their way into a race series.

Totally agree. My VFR had a claimed ~104BHP when new and that is plenty.

I still disagree with any power limit though.

Druid

Mej
12-03-10, 05:04 PM
exactly, but its always nice to have the option.

muffles
12-03-10, 05:17 PM
I can't see 100hp making much of a difference below 100mph (stab in the dark figure) but say at 150+ you won't be able to pull away from a car like you can today (on some bikes).

Dunno if that matters though ;)

Sid Squid
12-03-10, 05:27 PM
A horsepower limit is a crap idea*, it's been suggested several times over the last fifteen or so years. The last time I recall was by the gloriously stupid EU commissioner Herr Martin Bangemann, he wanted a limit of 100bhp but so fatally flawed was his argument - his own statistics demonstrated exactly the reverse of that which he claimed - that even the Europrats could wangle it.

But if they start trying it on again be worried - 100bhp may not seem like much of a loss, but these daft limits don't exist in isolation, the rationale will be a reduction in bike accident figures, when it proves to be ineffective, (note when, not if), the limit now being legislation can only too easily be ratcheted down until it's at a figure that does matter.

*For the best of reasons - it doesn't work. Again and again all of the statistics demonstrate that larger, more powerful machines are under represented in the KSI figures.

sunshine
12-03-10, 06:06 PM
100 bhp limit wouldnt bother me that much but, abs as standard, why would you need that, learn to ride the bike better.

remember a busa only has 186bhp so if you had one you still would have over 50% power. still think its a stupid idea and will never happen.

Stu
12-03-10, 06:08 PM
In seriousness, would it really cause a problem to have a 100hp restriction? Whilst I'm not too keen on being told what to do and what I can and can't have, 100hp is more than ample on the road on a bike. And IMO anyone that argues otherwise either can't ride properly or should make their way into a race series.
I used to think exactly that until I owned a modern litre sports bike with 160-170 bhp. I now don't ever want to go back. :smt028

yorkie_chris
12-03-10, 06:13 PM
When this gets reported somewhere with a snowballs chance in hell of being somewhere close to reality I'll complain to my MP about it.

MR UKI (1)
12-03-10, 06:17 PM
They would have to roadside dyno tests, how cool :D

BanditPat
12-03-10, 06:18 PM
I'll ride what I want thanks.

orose
12-03-10, 06:34 PM
I'm with the Squidster on this one - it keeps lurching zombielike into the light every now and again, only to be shot down. If I recall correctly, it hinders bike sales in France because they can hop over the border to full-power Germany and get the bikes unneutered due to the common market rules anyway, so there probably isn't even the statistical data to back the motion.

Still, good to see my MAG membership isn't being wasted - hadn't heard anything from them for a while.

jimmy4237
12-03-10, 06:51 PM
It's virtually unenforcable.. it would cost too much to implement a law stating "all bikes must be governed down". Who would agree to restrict their bike out of their own pocket?? I wouldn't... I'd tell them to go and sod off..Bike sales across the EU would nose dive, and dealers would be forced to close due to lack of business.. You can buy a full power bike outside of France, and import it into France as a personal import at full power, and they can't touch you.. CAP rules...

Doesn't make economic sense.. If you're gonna threaten to cap the bikes, then cap all the cars to the same 100bhp... The car makers would squeal NO.... Proposal dropped like that...

Plus who's saying you can't buy a programmable ECU?? Download a full power map, and away you go...

the_lone_wolf
12-03-10, 06:55 PM
Funny how although it's only France that has the ridiculous power limit, to "harmonise" across Europe it's every other country that has to alter it's perfectly reasonable time tested rules...

How about they pull down their stripey undercrackers, go shove a garlic clove up their arses and harmonise by removing the limit in Baguette Land...

timwilky
12-03-10, 07:03 PM
My French boss bought his latest blade in Germany, I wonder why. and the one before that in the UK.

Villers
12-03-10, 07:48 PM
100hp may not be required on the road, fair comment. People always apply this thinking to going as fast as possible, why? Are we all elitist mad arsed hooners? I like having 150+HP on tap. It means I can perform lazy arsed overtakes without changing gear, it also means I can plod along in ANY gear I feel like without making the bike work and make a racket to get anywhere. On the other hand it means I can roll on at 100mph in 6th gear and vanish into the horizon.

Anyway its the same old toss spouted by the same moronic 'journalism' that is the bike equivalent of the Sunday Sport on a quiet week. Best way to avoid such things is to not buy Mostly Conjectured Nonsense any more.

jamesterror
12-03-10, 08:17 PM
I understand the car arguement but the power to weight ratio could be their perspective of it.

Dave20046
12-03-10, 08:19 PM
On the plus side It's a cleverer idea than restricted younger riders, with everything to live for, to a power output that leaves them dangling in dangerous situations :rolleyes:

sunshine
12-03-10, 08:22 PM
yes ditch the 33bhp club and make it the 100bhp for 2 years for all riders after passing there test would be a better idea.

kwak zzr
12-03-10, 08:45 PM
i'm quite happy with my 100bhp its more than enuf really.

instigator
12-03-10, 08:55 PM
Why do idiots keep reading f***ing MCN!!!?!??!!??!??!?!?

Jesus H Christ.

skeetly
12-03-10, 09:24 PM
Can people please stop saying 100bhp is safer than something.....

LK-SV
12-03-10, 09:46 PM
I can see why some (in Govt.) THINK its going to make riding safer ....but the fact is its the Jockey, not the horse than makes the accidents .......

It wouldn't bother me .... for my riding, 70BHP or so is more than enough .... but its a slippery slope to other 'controlling' things, so I'd be fighting against it ....

Mej
12-03-10, 09:46 PM
Why do idiots keep reading f***ing MCN!!!?!??!!??!??!?!?

Jesus H Christ.

:smt098

MOSTLY crappy news!

ranathari
12-03-10, 10:58 PM
100 bhp limit wouldnt bother me that much but, abs as standard, why would you need that, learn to ride the bike better.

remember a busa only has 186bhp so if you had one you still would have over 50% power. still think its a stupid idea and will never happen.

Yes, if everyone learnt to be a better rider than ABS would never make any difference whatsoever :rolleyes:. Don't be stupid - the vast majority of road riders will be much safer with ABS than without because it doesn't matter how good a rider you are, you just can't react fast enough in an emergency.

How is the BHP limit applied in France? Is it just a different ECU map or does the engine have to be physically modified so it can't produce more than 100hp?

sauluk
12-03-10, 11:31 PM
Pile of tosh. Will they restrict hypercars next? Prevent engineering masterpieces like the Veyron from ever happening? Power isn't just what it can do on a road, it's the presence and enjoyment people derive from the machine itself.

An individual would just as easily kill themselves on a 150bhp bike as a 100bhp bike, give it a rest and spend the money where it's needed.

ThEGr33k
12-03-10, 11:46 PM
Ill be honest it isnt often I use more than 100bhp, but it can be helpful should I need it, I do have access. :)

Yes, 100bhp is enough... by why should the goverment enforce that on everyone, that is the problem

Yes, this nanny state crap is doing my head in...

I can see why some (in Govt.) THINK its going to make riding safer ....but the fact is its the Jockey, not the horse than makes the accidents .......

It wouldn't bother me .... for my riding, 70BHP or so is more than enough .... but its a slippery slope to other 'controlling' things, so I'd be fighting against it ....

As above really. It annoys me that they take our liberties away "for our own good". That then turns into total control and then we are screwed.

How is the BHP limit applied in France? Is it just a different ECU map or does the engine have to be physically modified so it can't produce more than 100hp?

I believe it is ECU. Not sure how they do it in the older carb'd models though.

KeithCRM
12-03-10, 11:55 PM
BHP is torque x revs. If the rule ever came into affect I bet you'd see the manufacturers making lower reving bikes with big torque :)

ThEGr33k
13-03-10, 12:04 AM
BHP is torque x revs. If the rule ever came into affect I bet you'd see the manufacturers making lower reving bikes with big torque :)

Aye but torque comes from CC's. :(

KeithCRM
13-03-10, 12:10 AM
Aye but torque comes from CC's. :(

Yes but I don't think they mentioned a limit on CC's

Stu
13-03-10, 01:38 AM
i'm quite happy with my 100bhp its more than enuf really.
You've got 112, so even your 'ped would get restricted ;)

I don't understand all the comments above saying it will never happen, seeing that France is living proof that it can happen if you don't protest against it.

orose
13-03-10, 07:35 AM
I don't understand all the comments above saying it will never happen, seeing that France is living proof that it can happen if you don't protest against it.

It doesn't seem to matter if you do protest against it once... eternal vigilance has to be the order of the day. :smt094

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 09:32 AM
Well its been like that in France (or wider) for years.

You don't see that many larger capacity machines over there, many 600 types are more common.

Stu
13-03-10, 11:03 AM
Well its been like that in France (or wider) for years.

You don't see that many larger capacity machines over there, many 600 types are more common.
That's what don't get about all the people not believing it could be brought in.
No, I don't think it would ever be retroactively applied to existing bikes, only new bikes. You say you could import from abroad, but you have to register the bike in this country if you want to keep it so they could apply it then. You say you could bypass it, but the 33bhp limit is enforced pretty well. I certainly wouldn't like to be riding a bike in excess of permitted hp that wasn't therefore insured & could get stopped by the police. Then it would only take, say, 10 years for all the 2nd hand bikes to not be a desirable alternative anymore.
Lets hope the argument that they are not safer wins, and it is harmonised by removing the limit in France instead.

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 11:13 AM
I doubt they would remove the limit in France somehow.
Its odd as they have this in place, and if you register your classic z1000 you have to have it reverted back to completely original spec to coincide with their registering laws, but as soon as you have it, you can do what everyone does over their, pocket sized plates, loud cans, streetfightered etc etc.
You have to have something like a datatagging system (where they etch stuff like fairings and stuff) or you can't have insurance....

...but you can't have over 100bhp...seems a tad odd. I supposes its not so bad, for example, you only need to restrict 4bhp to have a legal Raptor 1000, its not a lot really is it?

Villers
13-03-10, 11:27 AM
If that was true then we wouldnt know the pleasure of a modern GSXR1000 or an R1 or any other advanced machine with a brutal amount of power. If we are on about whats required I guess we could all get by on 50hp, that way we could all buy the same bike and just have it a different colour!

Load of nonsense anyway I wouldnt believe a word MCN said anyway.

yorkie_chris
13-03-10, 12:06 PM
I believe it is ECU. Not sure how they do it in the older carb'd models though.

Old EXUP you just took the carbs off and shaved the ledge off the inlet rubbers with a razor.

ThEGr33k
13-03-10, 01:08 PM
You've got 112, so even your 'ped would get restricted ;)


Where do people get these numbers from? Gixxer 600 RWHP is about 100/105... with din correction. SAE below 100bhp. :rolleyes:

yorkie_chris
13-03-10, 01:11 PM
Goverment would go on claimed bhp bollox. Same as why those penii at FI international get away with selling 33bhp kits for bikes with 32rwhp.

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 01:44 PM
If that was true then we wouldnt know the pleasure of a modern GSXR1000 or an R1 or any other advanced machine with a brutal amount of power. If we are on about whats required I guess we could all get by on 50hp, that way we could all buy the same bike and just have it a different colour!

Load of nonsense anyway I wouldnt believe a word MCN said anyway.


Are you replying to my post above yours:smt017

If so, my info comes from a brit in French residence. It took her four years to get through the red tape that the French put in place, to register her beloved 1977 z1000. She had to put everything from mirrors to indicator lenses back to original spec. She even had to swap her Marshall exhaust for the original.....ever tried finding a 1977 z1000 exhaust thats not rotten?...nah didn't think so.
She got so fed up, that after she had done it all, she sold it! She'd had it for rather a lot of years. Went and bought a Bandit 1200 instead.


As for all the laws over 100bhp etc, insurance (and datatag like etching) and having to carry around something permanent attached to your bike( can't remember what it is as its not a tax disc) I reckon if the EU have there way, it will be all the same over here too.
Could go on all day about it, shes always moaning about it, owning a bike isn't as easy as it is over here.....but at least they are a biker friendly nation when you are on the road:p

Sid Squid
13-03-10, 02:52 PM
Old EXUP you just took the carbs off and shaved the ledge off the inlet rubbers with a razor.
Yep, it was usually pretty simple, the GSXRs had washers tacked in to the exhaust headers, ping them off and it works like it should.

kwak zzr
13-03-10, 03:20 PM
Where do people get these numbers from? Gixxer 600 RWHP is about 100/105... with din correction. SAE below 100bhp. :rolleyes:

who cares how much its got lol, its still too much for me :p

ThEGr33k
13-03-10, 04:06 PM
who cares how much its got lol, its still too much for me :p

Indeed, well ill not say too much :p but it should certainly be enough! :cool:

daved407
13-03-10, 05:07 PM
In the 80s there was a 100 limit in Germany. There was so much back street garage tuning going on, that it was a pointless exercise. If Germany saw that it made no sense then I would say it makes no sense. MCN again stirring things up.

Villers
13-03-10, 05:15 PM
Are you replying to my post above yours:smt017



Kind of but I think I lost track mid way. i wasnt questioning the validity of what you stated as I know nothing about that. Reading it back I was getting at the previous statements of 'You dont need any more than 100bhp anyway..'.

Sorry if it came across that way ;)

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 06:53 PM
No worries hun. Did sort of wonder....but you kind of don't need 100bhp

All the roads in the next few yrs are going to be stealthily restrictive for speed, how and where to ride etc, it won't matter how big yer bike is, cause its not going to get you anywhere fast, or indeed bhp wise either !!

yorkie_chris
13-03-10, 06:55 PM
but you kind of don't need 100bhp

You don't but the point is it would open the door for these freedom-grabbing red scum to chip away a little more.
Give them an inch... and soon it would be 90bhp... then who knows how low.

You certainly don't need a 300bhp turbo bike on the road, but I'm not ever going to support taking away the right to have one.


But until it gets reported somewhere reliable I'm not too worried.

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 07:01 PM
I couldn't agree more. Its like stealth road restrictions, make the public think that 50mph for 'roadworks' is acceptable...and before long its permanent!

SO if they can do it one way, they can indeed pull wool over our eyes too!

Villers
13-03-10, 07:32 PM
Thing is, Im out of biking in the next 6 months as Ive had enough of fannying about. Anyway, I have a bike with more than 100hp and I have roads where I can (in my opinion) realistically safely have a bit of fun with it.

Mind you I do believe you need more than 100bhp, otherwise how would I have thrashed that tosser from work on his SP2 off that roundabout? :)

dizzyblonde
13-03-10, 08:22 PM
I'm quite glad I'm pregnant and out of biking myself. Both Pegasus and I were talking about this whilst on the M62 t'ther day. With everything thats in the way on the roads at the moment, in one respect we were thinking its better off I am off the road, because of how frustrating roads are right now. At least when I am back on the bike, hopefully the lot will have disappeared!
By then I'll have hopefully got the Raptor, and see what all this fuss of big BHP is about, but knowing me, I'll be left wondering what the fuss is about. Its taken me six yrs to finally make the decision to go bigger, always been happy, and still are, with the SV's.

Peg has nearly upto 197bhp with his(175 standard, ram air apparently pushes upto the 197), but you can't really use all that lot round here. Hes not overly bothered, just as long as he gets out on it. It'll be a couple of months before he can really give the bike a workout, but for now has to put up cracking it open slightly on congested Mways.

Richie
13-03-10, 08:41 PM
one word springs to mind...

BOLLOX...

simply ignor the MCN bringer of doom.... As it's not going to happen.

Villers
13-03-10, 11:24 PM
What is a peg and why does it have 197bhp? :)

As far as playing with big power goes, i live in the lake district and unfortunately my bike has a limiter at 186mph but there are a couple of roads where I can bounce the needle with room to spare!

Stu
14-03-10, 02:56 AM
one word springs to mind...

BOLLOX...

simply ignor the MCN bringer of doom.... As it's not going to happen.
I wish I had your confidence on this.
So what is your forfeit if you're wrong?

BanditPat
14-03-10, 04:12 AM
What is a peg and why does it have 197bhp? :)

As far as playing with big power goes, i live in the lake district and unfortunately my bike has a limiter at 186mph but there are a couple of roads where I can bounce the needle with room to spare!


Some one else from whitehaven? Where abouts?

dizzyblonde
14-03-10, 10:05 AM
What is a peg and why does it have 197bhp? :)



lol, you aren't a huge regular here(well long termer but not seen often), sorry most people know Peg as Pegasus, my partner and forum member. ZZR1400ABS.

simesb
14-03-10, 10:24 AM
.but you kind of don't need 100bhp

How many do you NEED? Enough to get to 70 mph and no more? Do fat people get more BHP? A sensor in the pillion for when you are 2 up?

Arbitary limits are a knee-jerk reaction by the mainly uninformed. As mentioned above, large capacity bikes are underrepresented in KSI stats; driver and rider education would seem to me to be a better use of money than a virtually uninforcable rule.

Villers
14-03-10, 10:25 AM
Ha ha I dont get on here often. Ive kind of lost the buzz for biking and I'll be selling mine in the next few months I'd say, probably giving biking up all together I think :(

Its people with more BHP than me that are going to get this restirction brought in, bleeding scandalous ;)

Im currently at Tower Hill Banditpat. Ive looked at your avatar but can't recognise the background!

ThEGr33k
14-03-10, 12:42 PM
How many do you NEED? Enough to get to 70 mph and no more? Do fat people get more BHP? A sensor in the pillion for when you are 2 up?

Arbitary limits are a knee-jerk reaction by the mainly uninformed. As mentioned above, large capacity bikes are underrepresented in KSI stats; driver and rider education would seem to me to be a better use of money than a virtually uninforcable rule.


Indeed, this is bang on. But tbh I do NEED 521bhp :smt003

-Ralph-
14-03-10, 03:35 PM
You wouldn't be forced to to restrict your bikes out of your own pocket. It would be a restriction on new bikes.

In France most new bikes are electronically restricted, and guess what dealers sell quite a lot of aftermarket ECU's, sometimes even supplied with the bike "for track use".

Such a restriction is useless because the police are not going to take every bike they stop and run it on a dyno. The French police are immediately suspicious of any litre bike though, because if you didn't intend to derestrict why didn't you just buy the 600? And the manufacturers don't push the litre bikes the same. 600's are very popular in France.

100hp may not be required on the road, fair comment. People always apply this thinking to going as fast as possible, why? Are we all elitist mad arsed hooners? I like having 150+HP on tap. It means I can perform lazy arsed overtakes without changing gear, it also means I can plod along in ANY gear I feel like without making the bike work and make a racket to get anywhere. On the other hand it means I can roll on at 100mph in 6th gear and vanish into the horizon.

Read the next post I've quoted

BHP is torque x revs. If the rule ever came into affect I bet you'd see the manufacturers making lower reving bikes with big torque :)

Which is exactly what allows Villers bike to do what he describes. The Bandit 1250 does exactly the same and it has 98.4BHP. We'd just get our kicks off low revving, wheelieing, tyre shredders instead. The European manufacturers such as Ducati and KTM would lead the way as the EU is thier main market, so hail the return of the twin!

I don't understand all the comments above saying it will never happen, seeing that France is living proof that it can happen if you don't protest against it.

Correct. Join the campaign if you don't want it to happen eventually.

BanditPat
14-03-10, 03:35 PM
Ha ha I dont get on here often. Ive kind of lost the buzz for biking and I'll be selling mine in the next few months I'd say, probably giving biking up all together I think :(

Its people with more BHP than me that are going to get this restirction brought in, bleeding scandalous ;)

Im currently at Tower Hill Banditpat. Ive looked at your avatar but can't recognise the background!

Ahhh i know the bike I've seen it in the garage when I'm walking past, I'm on Hillcrest. Havent atually seen you out on it though ;)

-Ralph-
14-03-10, 03:45 PM
one word springs to mind...

BOLLOX...

simply ignor the MCN bringer of doom.... As it's not going to happen.

I agree with not believeing MCN, but you try and find a non-biking politician who wouldn't think it was a good idea.

We know it's nonsense, because it's just as easy to get into trouble on an SS 600 as it is on the 1000's, but then we know that trying to control the dimensions of a banana is nonsense too.

Villers
14-03-10, 04:25 PM
Ahhh i know the bike I've seen it in the garage when I'm walking past, I'm on Hillcrest. Havent atually seen you out on it though ;)

I moved off Hillcrest about three years ago! The bike doesnt really go far if Im honest, will nearly be time to get it out for a few runs across to keswick or something!

orose
14-03-10, 04:29 PM
The only reason it isn't going to happen is if we continue to tell everyone that its a bad idea and it'll have no effect as regularly as possible, because otherwise those who make these decisions will listen to the people who think its a good idea and push their position as often as they can.

BanditPat
14-03-10, 04:37 PM
I moved off Hillcrest about three years ago! The bike doesnt really go far if Im honest, will nearly be time to get it out for a few runs across to keswick or something!

Neither does mine just round and round town over and over again til i persuade some one to come further with me. Theres average speed cameras on that windy bit of dual carriage way now as well good job there front facing :D where on hillcrest did you live?

Villers
14-03-10, 05:36 PM
I think ive seen you in town actually, green bandit and white boots? I used to be on the crest, rightat the top near the community centre. Give it a few weeks and i'll find the time to venture further afield sometime!

BanditPat
14-03-10, 05:40 PM
Aye well its not green its black but covered in mud and dirt so it looks green ;) white boots and a pretty shiny blue helmet like this
http://www.helmetcity.co.uk/Shark-RSI-Lavilla_0_0_1392H.jpg

Villers
14-03-10, 06:16 PM
Yep thats the one, saw you with a bloke following you on an l plater i think!

Stu
14-03-10, 06:22 PM
Some one else from whitehaven? Where abouts?

Ha ha I dont get on here often. Ive kind of lost the buzz for biking and I'll be selling mine in the next few months I'd say, probably giving biking up all together I think :(

Its people with more BHP than me that are going to get this restirction brought in, bleeding scandalous ;)

Im currently at Tower Hill Banditpat. Ive looked at your avatar but can't recognise the background!

Ahhh i know the bike I've seen it in the garage when I'm walking past, I'm on Hillcrest. Havent atually seen you out on it though ;)

I moved off Hillcrest about three years ago! The bike doesnt really go far if Im honest, will nearly be time to get it out for a few runs across to keswick or something!

Neither does mine just round and round town over and over again til i persuade some one to come further with me. Theres average speed cameras on that windy bit of dual carriage way now as well good job there front facing :D where on hillcrest did you live?

I think ive seen you in town actually, green bandit and white boots? I used to be on the crest, rightat the top near the community centre. Give it a few weeks and i'll find the time to venture further afield sometime!

Aye well its not green its black but covered in mud and dirt so it looks green ;) white boots and a pretty shiny blue helmet like this
http://www.helmetcity.co.uk/Shark-RSI-Lavilla_0_0_1392H.jpg
:makelurve: get a room :roll: there is such a a thing as pm or start another thread.

Villers
14-03-10, 07:05 PM
What? Five pages of waffle about something thats not going to happen and sprouted from MCN AGAIN isn't enough for you Stu? Then you took the time to quote it all and post it? I'll get a room when you get a ............

Stu
14-03-10, 07:55 PM
What? Five pages of waffle about something thats not going to happen and sprouted from MCN AGAIN isn't enough for you Stu? Then you took the time to quote it all and post it? I'll get a room when you get a ............
I haven't quoted anything about the what the thread's supposed to be about.
Just because it's in MCN does not necessarily mean that it's wrong. Just because you're giving up biking so don't care about a 100bhp limit coming in, the rest of us do care, just don't want to keep checking the updates to the thread to see nothing but the 2 of your's personal conversation.

orose
14-03-10, 08:07 PM
Stuff like this is good for all of us, to remind of the possibility of what might happen if we let our guard down. One day, we might be reading about it in one of two places if we don't actively try and prevent it - a respectable news source (sorry Liam) or even worse, a history book.

Grandad, can you remember back to the days when people used to grab hold of missiles and launch themselves into the scenery for fun?

There is far too much potential for this to be a snowball at the top of a mountain with all of motorcycling at the bottom under the avalanche. If its all the same to you, I'm perfectly happy to bury your lovely local love story under the snow I'm shifting :p

orose
14-03-10, 08:07 PM
Stuff like this is good for all of us, to remind of the possibility of what might happen if we let our guard down. One day, we might be reading about it in one of two places if we don't actively try and prevent it - a respectable news source (sorry Liam) or even worse, a history book.

Grandad, can you remember back to the days when people used to grab hold of missiles and launch themselves into the scenery for fun?

There is far too much potential for this to be a snowball at the top of a mountain with all of motorcycling at the bottom under the avalanche. If its all the same to you, I'm perfectly happy to bury your lovely local love story under the snow I'm shifting :p

Villers
14-03-10, 08:52 PM
Dont confuse not believing in something MCN says with not caring. I'd hate to see anything like this brought in. I just find that in the last 8 or so years of my biking career I've seen so many things in MCN (normally every few months if things get quiet) that are such utter nonsense that I don't believe in a word any of their inexcusably inept journalism. Its even got so bad that they are repeating themselves with their hoaxes.

-Ralph-
14-03-10, 09:44 PM
The majority of scare stories that MCN print are crap, but you should judge them on merit, not on whether or not MCN printed it.

orose
14-03-10, 10:49 PM
I suspect it might turn into their replacement for the new VFR stories they used to run (at least, I'm guessing they'll stop that now the actual bike is out).

yorkie_chris
14-03-10, 10:51 PM
I guess MAG and others would whinge a lot louder if there were more evidence to support this

orose
15-03-10, 07:30 AM
The article does mention "a MAG spokesman", but without mentioning them by name. I suspect that this is one of those things that the national committee are discussing with the DfT along with the other stuff on the list (bikes in bus lanes, anti-skid manhole covers).

Is anyone else on here a member of either of the riders rights organisations (BMF or MAG)?

Spikenipple
15-03-10, 08:00 AM
*cough* MCN *cough*

Stu
15-03-10, 10:14 AM
*cough* MCN *cough*
That is not helpful, see Ralph's comment
The majority of scare stories that MCN print are crap, but you should judge them on merit, not on whether or not MCN printed it.


Is anyone else on here a member of either of the riders rights organisations (BMF or MAG)?
Yes I have a personal membership of MAG and our IAM has a group affiliation with MAG. They seem to be concentrating on their 'Riders are voters' campaign at the moment, but they do have reports on studies into 100bhp refuting the alleged benefits.

orose
15-03-10, 03:14 PM
Can't say I disagree with that approach, with less than 3 months until a general election that could be swung by a motivated group of voters.

I'm a MAG member and affiliate BMF member at the moment, so I get both magazines and fairly regular updates.

orose
17-03-10, 09:57 PM
One good thing, at least - the paper version of the article has toned down the scaremongering on the 100bhp, and replaced it with the more realistic scaremongering about mandatory ABS.

Not sure I want that either, to be honest.

Stu
17-03-10, 10:19 PM
While I am pro choice, I'm afraid I can't get as excited about protesting against ABS.
I would be more upset if they thought they could enforce it on bikes when they haven't enforced it on cars.
I think the systems are getting better & better but I think it's too soon to bring it in when they are still basically in the early stages of design still.
Also what about off road bikes?

simesb
18-03-10, 12:14 AM
While I am pro choice, I'm afraid I can't get as excited about protesting against ABS.

I don't actually see the point. From the stats that were so widely discussed here a while ago, scooters run into the back of things, sportsbike riders fall off in corners (target fixation?), and there are SMIDSY's, a tiny proportion of which would be removed by ABS.

Locking a back wheel is easy, but locking the front is somewhat harder.

Stu
18-03-10, 12:39 AM
I have no evidence, but suspect lots of accidents must happen from locking up on or both wheels or failing to brake hard enough through fear of locking up a wheel.
l'm sure high quality ABS systems would make a tremendous improvement - I'm noot sure that high quality ABS systems are widely available yet & whether legal compulsion would be the right way to introduce them.

Stu
18-03-10, 12:42 AM
sportsbike riders fall off in corners (target fixation?),probably because they went in too fast because they didn't scrub enough speed off beforehand so ABS would help.
Locking a back wheel is easy, but locking the front is somewhat harder.
Very easy to lock the front wheel when you panic & grab a handful rather than progressively brake.

ranathari
18-03-10, 12:54 AM
Very easy to lock the front wheel when you panic & grab a handful rather than progressively brake.

My experience has always been that you've got a fair bit of notice when you lock the back wheel as the bike starts stepping sideways, giving you a chance to release the brake. Compare that to locking the front wheel when the first thing you notice is your body flying over the handlebars (which I've managed to do 3 times now). I've no doubt compulsory ABS would make a difference to accident statistics, especially with the level of sophistication of Honda's ABS on the CBR600RR and BMW's system on the S1000RR.

I can't help but wonder if the people protesting power limits and compulsory ABS would also have been protesting mandatory helmets if they were around back then.

Stu
18-03-10, 01:53 AM
What's wrong with protesting against mandatory helmets? I think it's a stupid idea to have mandatory helmets.
I've crashed my bike while wearing a helmet, but never crashed when not wearing a helmet.

orose
18-03-10, 07:33 AM
If they were a MAG member back then, then yes - that was the original purpose for starting the group.

IIRC, when they launched the CBR-ABS, there was an interview with the designers of the system. Essentially, they said that the system wouldn't be able to protect you from mid-bend panics.

Mej
18-03-10, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't really want abs unless it was like the one on the rr or the blade. Cabs.

yorkie_chris
18-03-10, 09:17 AM
I don't like it because it will push prices up and mean even fewer people getting into this life.

Same as all rest of bullsh*t legislation they've brought in.

Dicky Ticker
18-03-10, 10:26 AM
If I buy another bike I wouldn't mind ABS and linked brakes. Any development that progresses towards safety is OK in my book not being a purist. Similar with the 100bhp as there are many current bikes just above or below that figure and my own bike can top 145mph being 108bhp.I am not including track/race bikes similarly as you can't compare road cars to a F1 cars.
When you consider that they are dropping a lot of the speed limits on rural roads to 50mph, so a bike that does twice the max 70mph permited speed limit is quite fast.
One other aspect of the 100bhp limit is the green credentials with newer bikes having catalytic converters fitted they are down on power compared to a similar bike without it.