View Full Version : Blipping the throttle on downchanges?
gruntygiggles
26-05-10, 09:21 AM
eh? there's nothing at all wrong with that, its just not appropriate for some corner layouts.
Depends on what you're doing I guess, but I am talking about the very safest way of doing things. On the approach to a corner there is not so much wrong with doing both at the the same time, but ON a corner, IMO it is a very bad thing to do as your right foot is not where it needs to be, you always slow before a corner and drive through it....not be breaking, changing, still slowing down. If you are and the bend really tightens up....you are not going to be in a position to control the vehicle to the optimum level.
yorkie_chris
26-05-10, 09:25 AM
..not be breaking, changing, still slowing down. If you are and the bend really tightens up....you are not going to be in a position to control the vehicle to the optimum level.
Noone is recommending that.
Position > Downshifting and/or braking and/or buttock movement > turn in > corner > open throttle
gruntygiggles
26-05-10, 09:28 AM
Noone is recommending that.
Position > Downshifting and/or braking and/or buttock movement > turn in > corner > open throttle
I know...just reacting to it being mentioned that there's nothing wrong when breaking and changing in corners...when I believe there is :-)
Depends on what you're doing I guess, but I am talking about the very safest way of doing things.
"Safest" is hugely subjective. A safer way is to go slower to begin with, but where is the fun in that?
In principal, the rule is to be in the correct gear for the slowest part of the corner before you finish your entrance to that corner, but life isn't always like that. There are too many factors to have a hard and fast rule - weather, bike, surface, type of corner, confidence, and skill all dictate whether you can brake/change gear in a corner. I generally don't, but that doesn't mean it is wrong per se.
yorkie_chris
26-05-10, 09:30 AM
Safest is to stay at home :-P
Yep...breaking and changing gear at the same time is loss of drive...not a good thing. If you are in a situation where you have a big fast corner , followed by a much tighter corner that you need to slow down for...you shouldn't need to break, you should be in a gear going around that faster corner that allows for slowing of the vehicle by just easing off the throttle, if this doesn't slow you, you are in too high a gear, If it does slow you but it's a particluarly tight turn, then depending on the road conditions, you can either drop it a gear quickly....but doing this you HAVE to keep the revs up, not come off the throttle during change OR you can brake, then change down a gear, then drive through corner, still keeping revs up. How quickly the tight bend comes up can dictate which course of action you use, also, wet/icy roads determine the same. In the wet...MUCH better to keep revs up and do a quick down change than apply the brakes when you are too close to the corner.
Can't make head or tail of that. The only time you can change gear without loss of drive is when you're on the brakes, cos you're not trying to accelerate. :confused:
gruntygiggles
26-05-10, 09:35 AM
"Safest" is hugely subjective. A safer way is to go slower to begin with, but where is the fun in that?
In principal, the rule is to be in the correct gear for the slowest part of the corner before you finish your entrance to that corner, but life isn't always like that. There are too many factors to have a hard and fast rule - weather, bike, surface, type of corner, confidence, and skill all dictate whether you can brake/change gear in a corner. I generally don't, but that doesn't mean it is wrong per se.
Agreed, I know there is a skill to breaking in a corner, but I won't be trying it anytime soon...only passed a month ago...lol.
Just saying that in order to be in the best possible position to ride/drive safely through a corner or a set of corners, you should be using your obs, taking all factors like weather, road surface, obstacles, hazards or potential hazards etc into consideration to get your speed and gear right to allow you just concentrate on going into and coming out of the corner without the need to take your attention away by doing anything else.
Nothing is a hard and fast rule, but there are best practises...and they are there for a reason. That's all I'm saying :-)
gruntygiggles
26-05-10, 09:37 AM
Can't make head or tail of that. The only time you can change gear without loss of drive is when you're on the brakes, cos you're not trying to accelerate. :confused:
Agreed...hence me saying on the approach, nothing wrong with it at all....but breaking in a bend is not the best way to do it. You should try and always be in the right gear at the right speed and revs to ride through the bend....not have to break or change. That is all.
yorkie_chris
26-05-10, 09:38 AM
Ohhh you mean BRAKING
Breaking in a bend is bad.
Owenski
26-05-10, 09:44 AM
Once you have learnt blipping method you will not go back to feeding clutch out slowly as it is much smoother and easier.
+1,
I learnt to do it, when I stopped trying to do it. I found by over thinking it I struggled with it and it didnt feel very smooth at all.
Once I'd forgotten about trying to do it I realised soon after that I'd picked it up anyway. Now its my natural method of deceleration, it never takes an active thought.
EDIT: feel free to ignore that, my explorer stopped loading at post 7until I just posted that and its refreshed 11 pages in!
Agreed...hence me saying on the approach, nothing wrong with it at all....but breaking in a bend is not the best way to do it. You should try and always be in the right gear at the right speed and revs to ride through the bend....not have to break or change. That is all.
ah ok it makes sense now. It seemed to say that braking and shifting at the same time was bad. I think you meant that braking or downshifting whilst cornering, is bad.
ah ok it makes sense now. It seemed to say that braking and shifting at the same time was bad. I think you meant that braking or downshifting whilst cornering, is bad.
even when cornering it isnt always bad, it just needs to be done correctly.
even when cornering it isnt always bad, it just needs to be done correctly.
I can't imagine why a racer would deliberately downshift halfway round a corner, if it can be avoided. Might be necessary in some chicanes or double corners I spose.
carternd
26-05-10, 11:22 AM
S bends where the second one is tighter are great challenge.
Loads of ways to skin cat, square it off on exit of first, brake and drop gear/ into first one at high revs, roll off on exit and then into second/crap self, brake, run out of room to change down and completely naff up the exit :-P
There is one up here where there is S bend like that with a hump bridge in between... that wakes you up :-P
There's one on Buttertubs like that - it woke me up!
Back to thread: Blipping isn't essential, or even particularly important. It's an improvement. Those who don't do it aren't going to suffer, but try it, you might find (as I did) that you like the effect.
-Ralph-
26-05-10, 11:59 AM
People are generalising about braking in a corner too. I often drag my back brake a touch in a corner, either to scrub off a little speed, or sometimes if the corner was bumpy or uneven I'd give it a wee touch to bring the rear shock under control.
You can trail the front brake even after you've tipped in to a corner, so long as you are smooth in your transition from brakes back onto the power, and your prepared to push the bike back down if it starts to stand up a bit. Even if the SV standard suspendies can make that a bit interesting if if bumpy or uneven. Do it on something like a BMW with a funny front end and it doesn't feel dodgy at all.
Braking and cornering together just needs some thought about your stability, and you need to be confident that your tyre and road conditions have enough grip to deal with the forces involved.
This is not advice for anyone and "don't try this at home kids", but lets not generalise and say that it can't be done or will result in certain death.
I can't imagine why a racer would deliberately downshift halfway round a corner, if it can be avoided. Might be necessary in some chicanes or double corners I spose.
Pretty rare that I ever downshift in a corner, but braking is fine provided that its done correctly and within limits. Occasionally on a long fast sweeper you need to change up in the corner, on a left hander thats the main reason why some guys change to a race pattern gear shift allowing you to press down on the pedal rather than lift it.
You can carry quite alot of speed into a corner and gently scrub speed with the front brake but you really need to balance braking and cornering as you cant do both heavily. If I remember the Keith Code approach to this is to consider having 1$ worth of grip, you can assign some to cornering and some to braking but the limit is finite.
yorkie_chris
26-05-10, 12:04 PM
F = uR
gruntygiggles
26-05-10, 03:39 PM
ah ok it makes sense now. It seemed to say that braking and shifting at the same time was bad. I think you meant that braking or downshifting whilst cornering, is bad.
Yep, you got it....I couldn't have been very clear.
As for braking in a corner.....I would say on a track braking and gera changes in beg corners would sometimes be necessary....but on a road, I would still advocate doing to the vehicle what is least likely to cause it to lose traction or control...so just prepare for the corner before you get there. I was only talking about road riding/driving, not racetrack.
As for blipping.....I'll wait til I've been riding a fair bit longer and see....I think I already do it.
I can't imagine why a racer would deliberately downshift halfway round a corner, if it can be avoided. Might be necessary in some chicanes or double corners I spose.
Mallory Park... new chicane 3/4 of the way around Gerrards.
Braking and downshifting required... horrible corner.
wattyfred89
26-05-10, 04:31 PM
do it without thinking. doesnt take long to learn, its a MUST
Sid Squid
26-05-10, 04:48 PM
But to be honest I have never cluncked into gear -only sound I get is the same sound as when I change up gear - (should I be blipping then too??) that comes from the pedal.
No. When changing up the rolling off the throttle for the change allows the engine to slow enough that the next gear's engine speed requirement, (which will be lower as the gear is higher), will probably be met by that alone.
What's so bad about being in the appropriate gear before you have finished braking?
Nothing, assuming the gear selected suits the speed.
S bends where the second one is tighter are great challenge.
Whether road or track, the important bend in that circumstance is the second one, how the first bend would be taken in isolation is irrelevant, it's no longer truly a bend - it's a setting up area for the second.
Safest is to stay at home :-P
Not necessarily:
I think I'll stay at home put my feet up, maybe watch a bit of telly, if something exciting like motorbikes is on, I might get worried and upset myself, so, carefully now, none of that dangerous standing up I might fall, I'll get the remote and turn over, watch something soothing, like tellytubbies perhaps.
But I'd best not sit still too long, I could get DVT, and that would never do, perhaps I'll just go have a nice lie down, but wait, statistically most people die in bed, so that's best avoided, so what do I do? I know a nice cup of tea, but hang on that's fraught with danger, more injuries are received in the kitchen than anywhere else in the home, no surprise, all them sharp things, and hot water and cookers and gas and whatnot, but what now? I need a pee, I'm not going to the bathroom though, thats the second most risky room in the house.
F**k it, I think I'll go for a ride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muddi http://forums.sv650.org/images/ca_morpheus_gray/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2278463#post2278463)
But to be honest I have never cluncked into gear -only sound I get is the same sound as when I change up gear - (should I be blipping then too??) that comes from the pedal.
No. When changing up the rolling off the throttle for the change allows the engine to slow enough that the next gear's engine speed requirement, (which will be lower as the gear is higher), will probably be met by that alone.
I didn't actually mean that as real question ;) I know you don't blip when your changing up lol :geek:
Interesting thread though - gone from whether to, and why, blip on slowing down, to braking or not, when going round corners.....
:D
Davadvice
27-05-10, 07:02 PM
Hello all,
Well I was out today and gave it a go and tbh yes the gearchange was smoother but it took longer for me to slow the bike. aslo tried it in the car and again same thing. I drive a TDI and the engine breaking is pretty strong.
From what i'm reading it would seem that if i am racing through a country lane then perhaps it is worth doing. but would that be if i was going from 4th to 2nd ? i generaly slow in a smooth concice way and tend to go through evey gear on the way down.
Most of my jurnyes are in town so would not really require me to blip.
most of what i've read seems to point in the direction of someone going quick.
Hello all,
Well I was out today and gave it a go and tbh yes the gearchange was smoother but it took longer for me to slow the bike. aslo tried it in the car and again same thing. I drive a TDI and the engine breaking is pretty strong.
From what i'm reading it would seem that if i am racing through a country lane then perhaps it is worth doing. but would that be if i was going from 4th to 2nd ? i generaly slow in a smooth concice way and tend to go through evey gear on the way down.
Most of my jurnyes are in town so would not really require me to blip.
most of what i've read seems to point in the direction of someone going quick.
I think the "need" to blip is purely determined by what the revs are going to be when you engage whichever gear it is you're about to engage. If whatever riding you're doing involves a gearchange which will send the revs toward the middle-upper reaches of the rev counter, then a blip to match revs and road-speed will significantly smoothen your journey and be far kinder to your bike.
Sid Squid
27-05-10, 09:10 PM
From what i'm reading it would seem that if i am racing through a country lane then perhaps it is worth doing. most of what i've read seems to point in the direction of someone going quick.
Not so, it's always worth matching engine and gearbox speeds on gearchanges, up and down, whatever your pace. It gives better control over the bike and less wear on the clutch.
I don't understand what you mean by 'taking longer to slow down', by which I mean I'm not sure of what your technique/sequence of controls is, the clutch is NOT a brake, and it shouldn't be so used. The engine can give braking force - but this only happens when the clutch is engaged.
I find it a must just giving a little blip on the throttle, do it in the car if Im going a little quick, ive heard its recomended to help gearbox life as your matching revs to gearbox, so less strain on gearbox.
i ride fairly quick through town on my morning commute too, as its quite early in the day, and throttle blipping makes slowing for roundabouts far more controlled, but is best to not think about it, same as most motoring, just do it naturally and it flows better.
jonny.boyd
27-05-10, 10:40 PM
I've also started using this recently, and got to say it's a technique that i was never taught in all my training but does seem to make a bit difference to the ride! Am really liking the way the bike responds to it!
Another great bit of advise from the forum which makes me a better / smoother rider!
carternd
27-05-10, 10:57 PM
I find it a must just giving a little blip on the throttle, do it in the car if Im going a little quick, ive heard its recomended to help gearbox life as your matching revs to gearbox, so less strain on gearbox.
i ride fairly quick through town on my morning commute too, as its quite early in the day, and throttle blipping makes slowing for roundabouts far more controlled, but is best to not think about it, same as most motoring, just do it naturally and it flows better.
Main issue with wear on a bike (IMO) is the chain and sprockets. I think this is the reason given in the Suzuki manual, which spurred me to trying the technique. I'd previously got on just fine, but it makes changing down at higher revs easier. The fact it sounds cool just proves I need to grow up!:albino:
Davadvice
13-07-10, 08:49 PM
resurecting this for a wee update.
I have been bliping the throttle for a wee while now and got to say that i am converted. i do feel that i'm riding faster than i was previosly but that may just be down to the dry warm roads and me loving it.
it does feel better and even doing it when squeezing the front break is getting easier. only when it's needed of course.
cheers.
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