View Full Version : My mate jailed
timwilky
31-07-10, 08:40 AM
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/chippy_stashed_700k_in_cash_to_avoid_tax_bill_1_97 8616
OK, he is hardly a criminal deserving of jailing, Simply a hard working (12 hour days for the past 30 years) guy in a cash industry and from a culture that does not pay tax (North African).
Why is it that you can batter somebody and get a fine, fail to pay the government what they want out of your earnings and you get sent to jail.
I am willing to bet, the vast majority of this is his life savings.
So, do I go and visit him and make an offer to run his chippy, No wonder he had so much, it is the best one locally.
Red Herring
31-07-10, 09:14 AM
You're right, I'm sure the smuggling charge had no bearing on the sentence..... If he wants to continue not paying tax perhaps he ought to go and live in North Africa? The entire structure of our country is being slowly eroded by this take take take attitude and I have no problem with seeing someone who has clearly been cheating the system for some considerable time paying the ultimate price. If you can't live by the rules of our society then be prepared to be excluded from it.
the_lone_wolf
31-07-10, 09:26 AM
You're right, I'm sure the smuggling charge had no bearing on the sentence..... If he wants to continue not paying tax perhaps he ought to go and live in North Africa? The entire structure of our country is being slowly eroded by this take take take attitude and I have no problem with seeing someone who has clearly been cheating the system for some considerable time paying the ultimate price. If you can't live by the rules of our society then be prepared to be excluded from it.
This^^^
You play the game, you run the risk of getting caught
The good players know how far they can push the limits of tax avoidance without reaching the threshold of evasion
This guy clearly couldn't play the game...
svdemon
31-07-10, 09:26 AM
Yeah he's much more dangerous than a paedophile (!) this country was f**ked years ago, our criminal justice system needs a serious shake up as it stands its farcical and I for on have absolutely zero faith in it.
The Guru
31-07-10, 09:36 AM
Yeah he's much more dangerous than a paedophile (!)..
Now thats a statement.
I bet you'd tell traffic cops to "go catch real criminals" as well.
If the Police do not pursue criminals (and this man is one) they get stick. and then People like you come along and give them stick for actually doing their job anyway.
Damned if the do damned if the don't.
gruntygiggles
31-07-10, 09:39 AM
Yeah he's much more dangerous than a paedophile (!) this country was f**ked years ago, our criminal justice system needs a serious shake up as it stands its farcical and I for on have absolutely zero faith in it.
Has nothing to do with how dangerous he is. Has to do with there being laws in place that have been broken over such a long time.
People having zero faith in the criminal justice system that then moan when this system jails a man that has evaded tax payments for such a considerable amount of time have no valid argument IMO.
Tim, I do feel for your mate as he's done what all of us would love to do if we could and that is keep the money we earn. But I pay 40% tax on the majority of my earnings and have done for the last 7 years as a self employed person. Sometimes my tax bill would make me sick...but I paid it, so hearing of others hiding their money in order to avoid paying that tax is pretty flipping annoying.
I would have more sympathy if he didn't know what he was doing, but he clearly knew it was wrong as he's gone to some lengths over quite some time to hide it.....so as others have said, play the game, live by the consequences!
If I were you, yeah, I'd go and offer to run the chippy while he's inside and when he gets out, by doing it lawfully, you'll have started building up his savings again....legally. Plus, free fish and chips when you want ;-)
IMHO....
he is not a criminal, just a person that just does not want to pay tax................
so when i do my 12 hour shift and get so tired that i forget which day it is i should do as he does just dont pay tax...
cool......
paying tax is pretty flipping annoying...
spose some folk have to do it.
You're right, I'm sure the smuggling charge had no bearing on the sentence..... If he wants to continue not paying tax perhaps he ought to go and live in North Africa? The entire structure of our country is being slowly eroded by this take take take attitude and I have no problem with seeing someone who has clearly been cheating the system for some considerable time paying the ultimate price. If you can't live by the rules of our society then be prepared to be excluded from it.
+1 for this.
if we all avoided paying taxes then the country would be even more screwed that it currently is. break the law if you want to but you then have to be prepared to take the consequences.
Is the issue the sentence compared with sentences for other crimes?
The way I see it is I've paid my taxes etc towards supporting the things this country needs, whether it be the welfware state or whatever. People like said chippy has meant the burden has fallen on others, in other words by robbing the state he's robbed me.
Yes, some sentences for other crimes/criminals needs addresssing but as for said chippy, he's got what he deserved.
And when he comes out I'd quite happily help him onto the plane back to Africa. If he has no respect for this country and its rules then why should we allow him to stay?
skeetly
31-07-10, 11:54 AM
I pay 40% tax on the majority of my earnings and have done for the last 7 years as a self employed person.
Bloody el. Well done!
Don't believe I've ever made enough to pay 40%............
As to the chippy owner; looks to me like he made a pile of money selling smuggled bacco. What can you say? He basically broke the law and got caught.
I bet he paid tax on the proceeds of the chippy so that will help to pay for his stay inside.
husky03
31-07-10, 11:59 AM
Got what he deserves,those that smuggle tobacco smuggle other stuff also, be it drugs,people etc,so he's contributing to the suffering of others- if he doesn't want to pay tax then he should pi$$ off back to africa -i'm fed up of the lame excuses such as he's from a different culture etc-this is where its went wrong with this country.
no sympathy for him , he should be deported once his sentence is completed.
gruntygiggles
31-07-10, 12:11 PM
Bloody el. Well done!
Don't believe I've ever made enough to pay 40%............
As to the chippy owner; looks to me like he made a pile of money selling smuggled bacco. What can you say? He basically broke the law and got caught.
I bet he paid tax on the proceeds of the chippy so that will help to pay for his stay inside.
It wouldn't matter if you only paid 2%....it's the principal....and by not paying that tax, however much it is, you'll be better off, so it stinks knowing that you pay and adhere to the law and others don't bother. Just think what you could buy yourself if you never paid your tax!
Jamesy D
31-07-10, 12:11 PM
IMHO....
he is not a criminal, just a person that just does not want to pay tax................
so when i do my 12 hour shift and get so tired that i forget which day it is i should do as he does just dont pay tax...
cool......
paying tax is pretty flipping annoying...
spose some folk have to do it.
It is a criminal offence not to pay taxes. Therefore, if he has not paid his taxes, he is a criminal.
It's that simple.
Remember that tax is what pays for every public service, so the NHS that our nation's binge-drinking youth (not all of us) abuse on a weekly basis, the police forces we rely upon to maintain law and order, the fire services who risk their lives to pull people from burning houses, and the Armed Services who exist to protect this country.
Paying taxes might be annoying, but they are a fact of life.
As they say, there are only two certainties in life, Death and Taxes.
If only i knew he kept wads of cash in the bushes of the back garden :(
Bluefish
31-07-10, 12:21 PM
women usually hide there money between the boobies, not in the bushes ;)
mcgrimes
31-07-10, 12:23 PM
If only i knew he kept wads of cash in the bushes of the back garden :(
I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't imagine leaving a spare pair of used undies under the bushes of fear they'd go missing!
women usually hide there money between the boobies, not in the bushes ;)
I knew a girl who could pick up a tenner with her buttocks.
As for this chap.... sorry, no sympathy from me either. No matter how good his fish and chips.
women usually hide there money between the boobies, not in the bushes ;)
lol:smt046
I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't imagine leaving a spare pair of used undies under the bushes of fear they'd go missing!
Where i live the cash would be still under the bushes but the undies might not:D
love it, cigarettes 'smuggled' from Spain. ermmm i thaught that they were in the EU so you dont need to smuggle tobacco products any more.
still 2.5 years for tax envision is a bit harsh. he was serving his community by selling 'cheep fags' as far as i'm concerned. if the tax in this country was not so bleedin high to start with then there would not be a 'black market' for such goods. ooohhh wait are we allowed to say 'black market' any more or are the PC going to burst my door down in a minuet.
£700.000 is an awfully lot of cash to keep lying around though. the person must have not been very bright. he could have phoned and given me some of it. lol
It is a criminal offence not to pay taxes. Therefore, if he has not paid his taxes, he is a criminal.
It's that simple.Remember that tax is what pays for every public service, so the NHS that our nation's binge-drinking youth (not all of us) abuse on a weekly basis, the police forces we rely upon to maintain law and order, the fire services who risk their lives to pull people from burning houses, and the Armed Services who exist to protect this country.
Paying taxes might be annoying, but they are a fact of life.
As they say, there are only two certainties in life, Death and Taxes.
Why should I work so hard and then pay tax for people like him who can not be bothered ......... I hope they give him a tax bill of 700k..
maybe if we all screwed the country things would change and we would get it back.
I love to hear stories where people have screwed the country and got away with it what a shame this guy got caught.
I beleave in the people not the country when we talk of the country were really talking of some inbread aristocrats setting up something we don't need so they can take the money/power.
anarchy rules! fight for the people not the system. hoo yaa.
i made the mistake of fighting for the system and lost loads of good mates to it!.
I have zero loyalty to this system and hope to oneday see it fall!
i just hope the chippy can re-open to the same standards, a good chippy is hard to find...
beabert
31-07-10, 01:41 PM
i just hope the chippy can re-open to the same standards, a good chippy is hard to find...
Indeed! theres a goodun in stetchford :-D
timwilky
31-07-10, 01:41 PM
Hmm, reading the responses I guess I am in a minority who see him as a guy that has never hurt anyone, provided work to 6 people and done nothing worse than fiddle his tax.
There are a lot more deserving of jail time than Mustapha. He doesn't drink/womanise etc. So he runs a successful business and get hammered. Keeping your money/savings at home and hidden etc is not so strange if like he, you come from an environment where banks and government cannot be trusted to keep your money safe.
edit, ok jail him for life as they failed to disclose he is also a united fan. Truth is he had been looking after the money in an attempt to buy out the Glaziers
Red Herring
31-07-10, 02:30 PM
maybe if we all screwed the country things would change and we would get it back.
I love to hear stories where people have screwed the country and got away with it what a shame this guy got caught.
I beleave in the people not the country when we talk of the country were really talking of some inbread aristocrats setting up something we don't need so they can take the money/power.
anarchy rules! fight for the people not the system. hoo yaa.
i made the mistake of fighting for the system and lost loads of good mates to it!.
I have zero loyalty to this system and hope to oneday see it fall!
Which begs the question why on earth are you still living in the UK then?
tell me of a country not like this! and I'l be there friends & family invited.
husky03
31-07-10, 02:40 PM
smudge what would be in its place?
Bluefish
31-07-10, 02:50 PM
Hmm, reading the responses I guess I am in a minority who see him as a guy that has never hurt anyone, provided work to 6 people and done nothing worse than fiddle his tax.
And that is what he has been done for, no injustice there :smt035, Question is have his employees paid there taxes?. If i have to pay mine i don't see why he shouldn't pay his, Ps i don't have 700k stuffed under my bed, it's more like 1 mil. :smt046
who would he phone if his chippy was on fire, or his house was being burgled, or he needed medical attention etc etc etc.
...thats right, the services for which he hasnt paid.
CoolGirl
31-07-10, 03:25 PM
Got what he deserves,those that smuggle tobacco smuggle other stuff also, be it drugs,people etc,so he's contributing to the suffering of others- if he doesn't want to pay tax then he should pi$$ off back to africa -i'm fed up of the lame excuses such as he's from a different culture etc-this is where its went wrong with this country.
no sympathy for him , he should be deported once his sentence is completed.
So what's your remedy for a UK national failnig to pay tax?
(BTW, try being a 40% tax-payer when the Revenue messes it up and taxes you twice! what fun we had trying to sort that one out)
The Basket
31-07-10, 03:59 PM
Hmm, reading the responses I guess I am in a minority who see him as a guy that has never hurt anyone, provided work to 6 people and done nothing worse than fiddle his tax.
There are a lot more deserving of jail time than Mustapha. He doesn't drink/womanise etc. So he runs a successful business and get hammered. Keeping your money/savings at home and hidden etc is not so strange if like he, you come from an environment where banks and government cannot be trusted to keep your money safe.
edit, ok jail him for life as they failed to disclose he is also a united fan. Truth is he had been looking after the money in an attempt to buy out the Glaziers
Not sure of your beef Mr Wilky
He was doing stuff and got caught...I suppose you could argue he dont deserve the jail time but anyone in the know will tell you he will be out in a year...if that.
I have no problem with the conviction...not even a little bit.
husky03
31-07-10, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=CoolGirl;2333122]So what's your remedy for a UK national failnig to pay tax?
Jail-plain and simple-once they have done their time they go back to their community - why should a person who is foreign be allowed to remain in this country after they have commited a crime punishable by imprisonment-if i go and live in the states,canada,oz,thailand etc and end up in jail after doing my time i get sent back to where i came from so why should it be any different here?
Foreigners in ANY country should be aware that their presence there is at that countrys discretion and should they break the laws of that land they get deported- again why should it be any different here?
hence why the uk is often seen as being a soft touch
Essex of Essex
31-07-10, 04:33 PM
He has been stealing from all of us that do pay our tax, he has been caught and is being punished for it, seems like the correct outcome to me.
CoolGirl
31-07-10, 04:51 PM
Jail-plain and simple-once they have done their time they go back to their community - why should a person who is foreign be allowed to remain in this country after they have commited a crime punishable by imprisonment-if i go and live in the states,canada,oz,thailand etc and end up in jail after doing my time i get sent back to where i came from so why should it be any different here?
Foreigners in ANY country should be aware that their presence there is at that countrys discretion and should they break the laws of that land they get deported- again why should it be any different here?
Making an assumption based on what Mr Wilky said and that there's no report to the contrary, the bloke's been here for 30 years and has resident status, so isn't an illegal immigrant. So, if he were to stay in the UK and pay his taxes like a good boy, plus give back what he owes the state in arrears, how would you feel about that?
Specialone
31-07-10, 04:58 PM
Bloody el. Well done!
Don't believe I've ever made enough to pay 40%............
+1
Its getting bloody hard to make decent living lately, my work has been up and down this year, so i wont have to worry about getting to 40% tax limits.
The way things are going i will be paying about a fiver in tax.
I need a career change, this one is a lot of work for not so good gains.
BTW i hear people getting let off with low sentences for a lot worse crimes than tax evasion, so imo its not relative.
Having said that, he may be a criminal, but not the type that would probably be the 'norm' in prisons so why dont they do something like 2000 hours community service instead, less burden on the prison / tax system and he puts back into the community, along with a heavy fine.
Just my opinion.
the_lone_wolf
31-07-10, 05:12 PM
Hmm, reading the responses I guess I am in a minority who see him as a guy that has never hurt anyone, provided work to 6 people and done nothing worse than fiddle his tax.
Even the details of the article show that he was doing more than that...
He was convicted of two money laundering offences
Money laundering is certainly not one guy, totally innocent, forgetting to pay his tax bill
Bedhead
31-07-10, 05:27 PM
Hmm, reading the responses I guess I am in a minority who see him as a guy that has never hurt anyone, provided work to 6 people and done nothing worse than fiddle his tax.
There are a lot more deserving of jail time than Mustapha. He doesn't drink/womanise etc. So he runs a successful business and get hammered. Keeping your money/savings at home and hidden etc is not so strange if like he, you come from an environment where banks and government cannot be trusted to keep your money safe.
edit, ok jail him for life as they failed to disclose he is also a united fan. Truth is he had been looking after the money in an attempt to buy out the Glaziers
On a point of Order, Hitler didn't drink or womanise, so I don't think it's a relevant reason to see the guy in a different light, he runs a succesful business, which is a damn sight easier if you don't pay tax, he may come from a country where you can't trust banks, but he's dealing with a country where for the most part you can trust banks. If he came from a country where you could marry a 12yo, would you see him so sympathetically if he was cohabiting with one here? They guy is living here and thus he has a duty to conform with the laws of the land. He's a crook and he got caught, that's the bottom line. £700k would pay for an awful lot of public services.
husky03
31-07-10, 05:29 PM
Making an assumption based on what Mr Wilky said and that there's no report to the contrary, the bloke's been here for 30 years and has resident status, so isn't an illegal immigrant. So, if he were to stay in the UK and pay his taxes like a good boy, plus give back what he owes the state in arrears, how would you feel about that?
How would i feel?-i'd feel it was pointless in jailing him in the first place-i am of the opinion that the punishment given out by the courts should not only punish the guilty but also act as a deterent to others from doing the same- but as has been mentioned before in this thread the differences in the sentencing in this country for different crimes varies from the stupid to the downright shameful at times.
At no point have i or anyone else said this guy was an illegal immigrant, but if he's been here for 30 years or 30 mins i would still deport him out of the uk for commiting a crime punishable by imprisonment.
My bro lives in Thailand and has resident status there, but if he commits a crime where he would go to jail he knows he's on the first plane out the country onces he's served his time-he therefore ensures he lives by the Thai laws-i'd like to see that happening here.
The Basket
31-07-10, 06:45 PM
The guys an eejit...
All he had to do was hire a bent accountant who could have happily stashed his cash someone...all perfectly legal...
My bro lives in Thailand and has resident status there, but if he commits a crime where he would go to jail he knows he's on the first plane out the country onces he's served his time-he therefore ensures he lives by the Thai laws-i'd like to see that happening here.
wow didnt know that. wish they would adopt that law here...
that would solve so many problems....
husky03
31-07-10, 07:02 PM
he's not allowed to own property apart from a flat,can't get any credit, and is charged a higher rate on a mortgage than a Thai-His mrs is Thai and everything is in her name-the coppers are very wary of doing foreigners but when they do they hammer them-should be the same here.
You're right, I'm sure the smuggling charge had no bearing on the sentence..... If he wants to continue not paying tax perhaps he ought to go and live in North Africa? The entire structure of our country is being slowly eroded by this take take take attitude and I have no problem with seeing someone who has clearly been cheating the system for some considerable time paying the ultimate price. If you can't live by the rules of our society then be prepared to be excluded from it.
I agree totally with this.
Your friend is a criminal, he chooses to live in this country and therefore should live by this countries rules. I bet if he became Ill or needed the assistance of the ambulance, fire brigade, police etc he would not hesitate in ringing them even thought he hasn't paid a penny towards the service.
I hate paying taxes as much as the next bloke, however I wouldn't mind at all if the money was spent on the correct stuff. Just imagine how good our roads would be if we didn't have the huge problem of immigration... but this is another discussion, sorry.
Back the the subject in hand. Send him down and take the money he has avoided paying. Although he'll be out in a month for good behaviour... stupid legal system.
svdemon
31-07-10, 09:08 PM
Now thats a statement.
I bet you'd tell traffic cops to "go catch real criminals" as well.
If the Police do not pursue criminals (and this man is one) they get stick. and then People like you come along and give them stick for actually doing their job anyway.
Damned if the do damned if the don't.
Where did I give the police stick for not doing their job? I'm the first to defend traffic cops over speed cameras. I know which i would prefer to be locked away - a paedophile or a guy who didn't pay tax. You must have some bizarre outlook on life if you see it the other way.
Bedhead
31-07-10, 09:15 PM
Where did I give the police stick for not doing their job? I'm the first to defend traffic cops over speed cameras. I know which i would prefer to be locked away - a paedophile or a guy who didn't pay tax. You must have some bizarre outlook on life if you see it the other way.
What's wrong with locking them both away? The Paedo and the Tax Dodger?
Bluefish
31-07-10, 09:53 PM
What's wrong with locking them both away? The Paedo and the Tax Dodger?
Not enough prison spaces as some peeps don't pay there taxes. :mad:
Bedhead
31-07-10, 10:12 PM
Not enough prison spaces as some peeps don't pay there taxes. :mad:
Throwing more of 'em into jail should discourage a few from commiting crime in the first place. ;)
Been thinking, there are hundreds of old ferries and cruise ships scrapped every year, why not convert some of them to prison ships and anchor them off the coast, cheaper than building jails on land.
:cool:
Jamesy D
31-07-10, 10:15 PM
On the subject of Prison spaces, what happened to Prison Ships?
They are getting rid of Invincible soon enough, she'd make a great prison. Stick her out in the North Sea and fill her full of scum (after removing everything that could be used to escape, of course). Cheap and no one's going to want to go back :D
EDIT: Great minds think alike Mr Bedhead!
svdemon
31-07-10, 10:32 PM
Prison ships sound like a great idea until you factor in the fact that this is britain so the cons would need to each have a 40ft yacht in order to escape in the event of an emergency otherwise their health and safety would be compromised!
I keep hearing that this country is in recession then I realised it can't be seeing as we just spent £7 million on bringing the pope over for a visit.
skeetly
31-07-10, 11:20 PM
It wouldn't matter if you only paid 2%....it's the principal....and by not paying that tax, however much it is, you'll be better off, so it stinks knowing that you pay and adhere to the law and others don't bother. Just think what you could buy yourself if you never paid your tax!
Er. I wasn't condoning tax evasion :)
You might want to read it again ;)
gruntygiggles
31-07-10, 11:23 PM
Er. I wasn't condoning tax evasion :)
You might want to read it again ;)
No need and I know you weren't condoning it...I was just responding the the first part re the 40% tax.....saying it owuldn't matter if you only paid 2%.
Completely agree with the second part :-)
Bleeding faceless communication....lol, it's failed me again ;-)
On a point of Order, Hitler didn't drink or womanise......
Correct. If I remember my school history lessons correctly, all that guy did was keep posting stuff on internet forums that had already been posted by someone else.
flaamin heck, I mean I know we have a relatively generous country, but if this guy got ill how exactly does he expect to settle the bill?! What country on earth could possibly provide free public services whilst remainin tax free. Cant happen and its every persons moral obligation!
Ironic though that tax evaders get tax funded accomodation. I do thinks it's a tad harsh. 'Prison deterrent' excuses dont really wash as no criminal ever expects to get caught, especially the ones that dont even know theyre committing one!
Prisons should protect the population be keeping dangerous people confined. They should also seek to help the offender and prevent them doing it again. I dont really think this guy falls into that category. At the end of the day this guys imprisonment is offset in our taxes in a long winded way.
Correct. If I remember my school history lessons correctly, all that guy did was keep posting stuff on internet forums that had already been posted by someone else.
:smt046
gruntygiggles
01-08-10, 10:24 AM
:smt046
+1
thefallenangel
01-08-10, 10:39 AM
who would he phone if his chippy was on fire, or his house was being burgled, or he needed medical attention etc etc etc.
...thats right, the services for which he hasnt paid.
Believe you me he's probably one in 100 hundred people in this country who is screwing everyone else over and is probably one of the better ones as at least he was providing work and a service.
I'd rather have some bloke screw the government over for taxes than some big pimp smuggling in women who are shagging 20 blokes a day for a dish of water and a couple of slices of bread, getting them off their heads on drugs so they are addicted and getting STI's too.
This countries problem is they don't go after the big criminals like Alan Darlow for example. How can a bloke go bust 3 times and still be allowed to run a business and live in a house worth millions and have flashy things?
gruntygiggles
01-08-10, 10:48 AM
Believe you me he's probably one in 100 hundred people in this country who is screwing everyone else over and is probably one of the better ones as at least he was providing work and a service.
I'd rather have some bloke screw the government over for taxes than some big pimp smuggling in women who are shagging 20 blokes a day for a dish of water and a couple of slices of bread, getting them off their heads on drugs so they are addicted and getting STI's too.
This countries problem is they don't go after the big criminals like Alan Darlow for example. How can a bloke go bust 3 times and still be allowed to run a business and live in a house worth millions and have flashy things?
Because he's got the sense to have signed it all over to someone else probably so it can't be touched!
husky03
01-08-10, 10:59 AM
Believe you me he's probably one in 100 hundred people in this country who is screwing everyone else over and is probably one of the better ones as at least he was providing work and a service.-if he's not paying tax who's to say that he's not paying those that do work for him cash in hand-so they can still claim benefits that the tax payers money pay for?.
I'd rather have some bloke screw the government over for taxes than some big pimp smuggling in women who are shagging 20 blokes a day for a dish of water and a couple of slices of bread, getting them off their heads on drugs so they are addicted and getting STI's too.Aye because them that smuggle tobacco would never be involved in human trafficing for the sex trade.
This countries problem is they don't go after the big criminals like Alan Darlow for example. How can a bloke go bust 3 times and still be allowed to run a business and live in a house worth millions and have flashy things? Tends to be that the bigger the fish the more smarter and intelligent they are at keeping themselves distanced from being tied in directly-its one thing knowing someone is a crook, its a total different matter when it comes to proving it beyond all reasonable doubt in a court of law.
gruntygiggles
01-08-10, 11:13 AM
+1 to Husky above.
It's not easy catching career criminals, it's only easy catching the minions of those career criminals. If it was easy....Hollywood would be putting out less than half the films they currently do...lol.
Seriously though, There's always a lot more to it than what you can read in a newspaper article. The CPS will normally not charge on all of the offences, they will take a fair portion of offences and have them, "taken into consideration" so there could well be more than meets the eye here. Also, those offences taken into consideration aren't always the lower of the offences either. Sometimes the worst of the offences can be taken into consideration where someone has been able to help the police with catching the bigger guys or simply made their life easier by admitting guilt and saving a big investigation.
Believe you me he's probably one in 100 hundred people in this country who is screwing everyone else over and is probably one of the better ones as at least he was providing work and a service.
I'd rather have some bloke screw the government over for taxes than some big pimp smuggling in women who are shagging 20 blokes a day for a dish of water and a couple of slices of bread, getting them off their heads on drugs so they are addicted and getting STI's too.
This countries problem is they don't go after the big criminals like Alan Darlow for example. How can a bloke go bust 3 times and still be allowed to run a business and live in a house worth millions and have flashy things?
Sorry, sorry but that's naive.
Mixed in with his offences was money laundering. It wasn't just tax evasion. And laundering from what? The other end of the supply chain isn't a guy with a corner shop selling jelly babies.
Just imagine what the real tax burden would be if they caught the majority of the tax evaders? But hey, lets all pay loads of tax so some scroat can live comfortably.
Why in this country does everyone love a modern day Robin Hood?
The Guru
01-08-10, 01:08 PM
... I know which i would prefer to be locked away - a paedophile or a guy who didn't pay tax. You must have some bizarre outlook on life if you see it the other way.
It doesnt matter what you'd prefer, both are criminals so both deserve to be jailed. Simple.
I don't see what paedophiles have to do with this story anyway :confused: it goes without saying that all sex offenders should be castrated :smt067... I mean jailed.
The point is the guy committed a crime, therefore he should face the consequences. It doesn't matter if you think hes not 'dangerous'.
i read in the daily mail that all foreigners are paedophiles and criminals...
Bedhead
01-08-10, 02:00 PM
i read in the daily mail that all foreigners are paedophiles and criminals...
The DM, the Sun for people who can do joined up writing!:p
While they go over the top with fear of immigrants, it should be said that a lot of them come from cultures where things that are illegal here, are looked upon as par for the course, and sometimes old habits die hard.
yorkie_chris
01-08-10, 02:09 PM
The entire structure of our country is being slowly eroded by this take take take attitude
Yeah, cheers for starting that one Gordon, you c***...
Oh wait... the take take take attitude from who:smt003
Love the bit in the article, 300g of rolling tobacco seized! OMG bust of the century, give them a f*ckin medal for services against cancer...
I have no problem with people smuggling cigs, I very rarely bought tobacco from a shop. Nearly £11 for 50g, (for a value of oh, 50p?)
Jamesy D
01-08-10, 02:15 PM
The DM, the Sun for people who can do joined up writing!:p
I resent that! I don't write joined-up and I read the Telegraph...
maviczap
01-08-10, 06:14 PM
Current penalty as set out in Customs and Excise Management Act 179
170B Offence of taking preparatory steps for evasion of excise duty
(1)If any person is knowingly concerned in the taking of any steps with a view to the fraudulent evasion, whether by himself or another, of any duty of excise on any goods, he shall be liable—
(a)on summary conviction, to a penalty of the prescribed sum or of three times the amount of the duty, whichever is the greater, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both; and
(b)on conviction on indictment, to a penalty of any amount or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or to both.
(2)Where any person is guilty of an offence under this section, the goods in respect of which the offence was committed shall be liable to forfeiture.]
The charge would have been based on how much tax had been evaded and not what was recovered from the house.
As it was delt with at Crown Court, the penalty is higher, reflecting that the case was too serious to be delt with by the Magistrates.
The money would have been delt with under Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which would result in its seizure at least
Current estimated loss to George Osbourne's purse by smuggling of cigarettes £4bn most of which come from China, not the EU. Most are fake.
-Ralph-
01-08-10, 07:04 PM
The guy got done for money laundering, smuggling and tax evasion for christs sakes. He was a criminal with no regard for the law and no respect for the society he was living in, and he knew exactly what he was doing. He didn't do it because North Africans don't trust banks! It was plain and simple old fashioned greed.
The offences he was jailed for were just the things that he got caught for and could be proven in a court of law. 700K hidden in plastic bags? You you really think that this guy was only not paying tax and didn't have his fingers in a dozen other illegal pies? Do you think his car was taxed and insured? You reckon his TV was bought at full price from Currys? What else was wrapped up in the bags of chips other than illegal tobacco, 1/4 ounce hash along with it sir??
Jail is exactly where he belongs.
maviczap
01-08-10, 07:06 PM
How many of us have £700K tucked away in bin liners :confused:
How many of us have £700K tucked away in bin liners :confused:
Think about the maths.
How much does he need to run his business, and how much does he need to live on?
And he still has over £700k stashed away.
How much does he need to gross from his business, after running costs, and the margin on his smuggled cigs to be able to stash over £700k over x many years?
Its not rocket science to do the addy up's and realise there's a bit more than tax evasion and ciggy smuggling been going on.
maviczap
01-08-10, 08:06 PM
Think about the maths.
How much does he need to run his business, and how much does he need to live on?
And he still has over £700k stashed away.
How much does he need to gross from his business, after running costs, and the margin on his smuggled cigs to be able to stash over £700k over x many years?
Its not rocket science to do the addy up's and realise there's a bit more than tax evasion and ciggy smuggling been going on.
Nearly 100% profit on every 200 carton smuggled to everyone involved, excluding the end user.
I don't know what the wholesale price of a fake carton of 200 cigs is, but I've even seen ligitimate cigarettes for sale as low as $5 for 200, so fakes are going to be cheaper
At the end of the day this guy pleaded guilty to the charges, as his brief had obviously told him he didn't have a leg to stand on
littleoldman
01-08-10, 09:34 PM
Two points 1, how do you pay tax on the profits of bootlegging, robbery, prostitution et al ?, 2, theres more tax's than income tax, eg TV lic, Road Fund lic, poll tax, VAT, excise duty, road tolls, the bloody lists endless. Even drug dealers pay VAT on the kids private school fees.
BTW is the chippy part of the proceeds of crime and should that now go into the public coffers.
When him comes out deport him
Stick her out in the North Sea and fill her full of scum (after removing everything that could be used to escape, of course). Cheap and no one's going to want to go back :D
Sounds like going offshore to an oil rig :)
Instead of decommissioning all the old rigs, should convert them to prison rigs...
Specialone
01-08-10, 11:33 PM
Must have been a bit stupid keeping the cash round him, i would have bought motorcycles lol
The 700k is what they know about, how much did he get rid of without them knowing?
I retract my earlier post, he should do time for this (and community service), its more serious than first realised.
MattCollins
02-08-10, 08:11 AM
Funny thread.
You'd all be doing it if you could find a way. The only problem that I see is that Mr Aitbouzit got caught.
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 08:16 AM
Funny thread.
You'd all be doing it if you could find a way. The only problem that I see is that Mr Aitbouzit got caught.
That's rather a bold statement...speak for yourself mate!
I wouldn't. Not in a righteous way, just a not wishing to break the law way and I know I'm not alone.
-Ralph-
02-08-10, 08:42 AM
Funny thread.
You'd all be doing it if you could find a way. The only problem that I see is that Mr Aitbouzit got caught.
Tax avoidance yes, tax evasion no.
A member of my family got investigated for both income tax and VAT, he avoided jail by pleading ignorant, pretending he didn't know how to do his book keeping, and agreeing to hand all his finances over to an independent accountant, but he still had to sell his house to pay the £400K tax bill.
My father was his accountant until they fell out over where the line was drawn between tax avoidance and tax evasion and he disassociated himself with the business and refused to have any further involvement.
We are not stupid, but we are not all crooks either.
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/chippy_stashed_700k_in_cash_to_avoid_tax_bill_1_97 8616
OK, he is hardly a criminal deserving of jailing, Simply a hard working (12 hour days for the past 30 years) guy in a cash industry and from a culture that does not pay tax (North African).
Why is it that you can batter somebody and get a fine, fail to pay the government what they want out of your earnings and you get sent to jail.
I am willing to bet, the vast majority of this is his life savings.
So, do I go and visit him and make an offer to run his chippy, No wonder he had so much, it is the best one locally.Tim you are a comedy genius :lol:
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 08:42 AM
You'd all be doing it if you could find a way.
Location: Down Under
Perhaps we should bring back deporting criminals to the colonies...
;)
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 08:45 AM
Perhaps we should bring back deporting criminals to the colonies...
;)
I so nearly did that...lol ;-)
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 08:54 AM
I so nearly did that...lol ;-)
We shouldn't take the mick really, Australia has lots of wonderful things, like their cultural centre:
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/ktm_wolf/misc/vlcsnap-2010-02-15-13h47m00s44.png
;)
MattCollins
02-08-10, 09:10 AM
Perhaps we should bring back deporting criminals to the colonies...
;)
To which colonies would you be referring? :p
MattCollins
02-08-10, 09:17 AM
It is so easy to get you lot wound up. At least in Australia we can take the pee out of ourselves and not get upset about it.
We shouldn't take the mick really, Australia has lots of wonderful things, like their cultural centre:
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/ktm_wolf/misc/vlcsnap-2010-02-15-13h47m00s44.png
;)
-Ralph-
02-08-10, 09:22 AM
It is so easy to get you lot wound up. At least in Australia we can take the pee out of ourselves and not get upset about it.
Auzzies haven't got a lot of choice in that respect have they ;)
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 09:23 AM
Haha....can't see anyone getting wound up here ;-)
MattCollins
02-08-10, 09:37 AM
Tax avoidance yes, tax evasion no.
A member of my family got investigated for both income tax and VAT, he avoided jail by pleading ignorant, pretending he didn't know how to do his book keeping, and agreeing to hand all his finances over to an independent accountant, but he still had to sell his house to pay the £400K tax bill.
My father was his accountant until they fell out over where the line was drawn between tax avoidance and tax evasion and he disassociated himself with the business and refused to have any further involvement.
We are not stupid, but we are not all crooks either.
Ralph,
Okay, maybe this guy has gone a little further than some people are willing to go, but can we all honestly deny that we wouldn't take an opportunity within the confines of our respective morality to get ahead?
The way I and just about everyone that I know looks at it is that it is okay to take our best shot at screwing the system because it will screw us. Screwing with or hurting each other on the other hand is not acceptable behaviour.
MattCollins
02-08-10, 09:38 AM
Auzzies haven't got a lot of choice in that respect have they ;)
We can thank the mother country... :rolleyes:
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 09:44 AM
It is so easy to get you lot wound up. At least in Australia we can take the pee out of ourselves and not get upset about it.
In England we take the **** out of Aussies and don't get upset about it as well...;)
MattCollins
02-08-10, 09:46 AM
In England we take the **** out of Aussies and don't get upset about it as well...;)
:winner: :smt046
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 09:49 AM
In England we take the **** out of Aussies and don't get upset about it as well...;)
Another corker Mark!
Matt, I know what you're saying and for me it would be things like letting people pay me 50p for some BBQ rub and not declaring it as anything because I don't run a business and I'm not making profit, just covering costs. If it came to me actively selling something, I'd have to do it properly and legally....my name would be on it and there's no way I'd risk my reputation for the sake of tax.
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 09:54 AM
Matt, I know what you're saying and for me it would be things like letting people pay me 50p for some BBQ rub and not declaring it as anything because I don't run a business and I'm not making profit, just covering costs. If it came to me actively selling something, I'd have to do it properly and legally....my name would be on it and there's no way I'd risk my reputation for the sake of tax.
This^^^
The tax man has more powers than the police when it comes to your business and can make your life extremely difficult
yorkie_chris
02-08-10, 09:56 AM
Come around here and you'd see we're quite happy to take the p*ss out of each other, ourselves, the less fortunate, the more fortunate, the disabled, those unable to defend themselves, any contentious subject of poor taste and anyone else I forgot, with absolutely no regard to their human rights or the boundaries of good taste.
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 09:57 AM
This^^^
The tax man has more powers than the police when it comes to your business and can make your life extremely difficult
Yep! There are many repurcussions to not paying your taxes.....jail is just one of them!
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 10:00 AM
Yep! There are many repurcussions to not paying your taxes.....jail is just one of them!
Being filthy rich is one of the nicer ones though...
:cool:
gruntygiggles
02-08-10, 10:12 AM
Being filthy rich is one of the nicer ones though...
:cool:
Tis true. Not much consolation to Tims mate at the moment though!
Biker Biggles
02-08-10, 10:14 AM
Of course he is a criminal.He smuggled baccy and broke several laws.But does it serve any useful purpose to put him and others like him in prison?I dont think so.They already took his money(only to wast public money keeping him in prison)so should he not be more usefully employed by EG running a chip shop and employing 6 others?He could even pay tax from it so everyones a winner.
Red Herring
02-08-10, 10:15 AM
I suspect he'll be more worried about who is going to knock on his door in the middle of the night when he gets out, stick something dischargeable under his nose, and ask politely where he's stashed the rest of the money..... and I don't suppose for one moment that person will be from any official agency....
The laundered cash, amounting to £708,225.38, was detained under Proceeds of Crime legislation. Aitbouzit pleaded guilty to three offences at Manchester Crown Court.
kerching, now i know where the force get their nice big flash cars.
i feel sorry for the bloke. if he had paid his tax he would still have lodsa cash left, but he dont even have enough for the soap on a rope.
slight derail. what happens if a member of the public has tens thou under the mattress and the police knock on the door and ask where they got it. even though they have been saving it for years and has already been taxed? is it up to the individual to prove where they got it? if so is the money seized till owner can prove ownership?
timwilky
02-08-10, 11:50 AM
slight derail. what happens if a member of the public has tens thou under the mattress and the police knock on the door and ask where they got it. even though they have been saving it for years and has already been taxed? is it up to the individual to prove where they got it? if so is the money seized till owner can prove ownership?
I think this is part of the issue, Over the years, Mustapha has run/sold a number of businesses. I would guess most of the money was legally obtained, I doubt a career criminal with that sort of money would work 12 hour days behind a chip fryer.
As for the taxman, his powers are nothing compared to the vatman. I know a tax inspector who would even when out socially, count the beer being served in a pub etc. He was most displeased when he planned a raid on a local business and found the vatman had already raided it and shut it down.
the_lone_wolf
02-08-10, 12:01 PM
I would guess...
And that's all you can do, all any of us can do...
The CPS/court however, would have seen evidence strong enough to remove any reasonable doubt that he'd committed the crimes he was charged with, evidence that won't be made public
Jamesy D
02-08-10, 03:09 PM
kerching, now i know where the force get their nice big flash cars.
Yes.
From tax money.
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