Birch or ASBO?

[Berlin]

SO, what do you think is the most effective?

[BigBaddad]

Birch.....or a jolly good fisting

[yorkie_chris]

I agree with Frankie Boyle, they should have called them gaybos or bender badges

[garynortheast]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.

[yorkie_chris]

surely better than completely ineffectual suggestions that the scroats might "quite kindly, you know, not set any more pensioners on fire this week... perhaps?"

[Berlin]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.

I disagree. I was belted as a child and I deserved it. It very quickly taught me where the limits were. Without it I'd have just kept pushing the envelope.

I think we should have a trial. 6 months should do it.

50% birched, 50% ASBO'd and see what the re-offed rates are. ;)

Or even, if you gave the choice of either an ASBO or the birch to the scroats, then whatever they choose give them the opposite, that would be "punishment". give them the one they least fancy.

There is no "punishment" in this country any more. Only getting ""Locked" up with an Xbox, the internet and satelite TV.

C

[husky03]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.


Justice no longer exists and the scum know it-therefore a good beating to within an inch of their life might make them think again(but i doubt it).

[andrewsmith]

I disagree. I was belted as a child and I deserved it. It very quickly taught me where the limits were. Without it I'd have just kept pushing the envelope.

I think we should have a trial. 6 months should do it.

50% birched, 50% ASBO'd and see what the re-offed rates are. ;)

Or even, if you gave the choice of either an ASBO or the birch to the scroats, then whatever they choose give them the opposite, that would be "punishment". give them the one they least fancy.

There is no "punishment" in this country any more. Only getting ""Locked" up with an Xbox, the internet and satelite TV.

C

Militant view but I agree with you C

[Ed]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.

+1

[davepreston]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.
i resent that statement
my violence can be very imaginative

[BigBaddad]

Violence - under any circumstances and perpetrated by anyone - is the last resort of the unimaginative. It's almost entirely about revenge and has nothing to do with genuine justice.

crap...it's quick and effective.

You do something and you get hurt you ain't going to do it again. Like that British guy that was on holiday somewhere out in the Middle East. Spray painted some cars and got whipped for it.

You touch my bike I'll hurt you, simple. All this softly softly crap is a waste of time and money. Why do you think the police are always to scared to visit a picky camp. This is how you deal with Gypo's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU6LEElJ15M

Bloody liberals.Grrrrrrr

[Berlin]

crap...it's quick and effective.

You do something and you get hurt you ain't going to do it again. Like that British guy that was on holiday somewhere out in the Middle East. Spray painted some cars and got whipped for it.



Singapore. I was there at the time. He was let off after US intervention (but was sh**ing himself.) What it didn't tell you in the reports is that a car in Singapore is worth 7 times what it is here. A Proton will cost you $60,000. So the damage he did was proportionally huge.

[Bluefish]

Oh I don't know were I went wrong, he used to be such a nice boy/girl and now I can't do a thing with him/her.

[timwilky]

I had a mate who did borstal, He did no more crime after he came out. Learned his lesson the hard way. Incidentally he is now a millionaire. Has a couple of businesses and employs over 100 people.

Contrast that with a certain family member. He did the system, more probation orders than cups of tea, then suspended sentence. Imagine his shock when he drove to court for nicking a car battery to find he was away for 12 months. It had taken the system about 10 years to give him what he deserved. Ironically he is well on his way to his first million as well.

A short sharp shock was what was promised to Britains thugs and ner do wells in the 70s. They never got it as the PC brigade stopped it as not working. Well those scroats that failed to get it and thought they could do what ever they want. Raised a generation of ner do wells who knew damm well they could do what the hell they wanted.

Nip it in the bud, early and hard.

[simesb]

You do something and you get hurt you ain't going to do it again.

Do you actually have any proof for this? Your argument implies that the threat of pain won't stop them, only actual pain after the fact. There are many states worldwide that practice either capital or corporal punishment. These states do not have a nil crime rate, nor a nil re-offending rate, so it can't be totally effective...

[Sally]

I disagree. I was belted as a child and I deserved it. It very quickly taught me where the limits were. Without it I'd have just kept pushing the envelope.

I think we should have a trial. 6 months should do it.

50% birched, 50% ASBO'd and see what the re-offed rates are. ;)

Or even, if you gave the choice of either an ASBO or the birch to the scroats, then whatever they choose give them the opposite, that would be "punishment". give them the one they least fancy.

There is no "punishment" in this country any more. Only getting ""Locked" up with an Xbox, the internet and satelite TV.

C

Justice no longer exists and the scum know it-therefore a good beating to within an inch of their life might make them think again(but i doubt it).

Amen.

They don't understand anything but violence.

If I did something wrong when I was younger, I would get a slap and get balled at. Worked for me, as you knew you wouldn't do it again.

It's all about respect, that's what they scum don't have any of.

[garynortheast]

Feck me - I've stumbled into the National Front's Grandad forum!

[Berlin]

Do you actually have any proof for this? Your argument implies that the threat of pain won't stop them, only actual pain after the fact. There are many states worldwide that practice either capital or corporal punishment. These states do not have a nil crime rate, nor a nil re-offending rate, so it can't be totally effective...

I'm proof of it :)

I got a belting and I can tell you I didn't do (whatever it was) again!

I knew *exactly* where the line was and didn't cross it again!

[Sally]

Feck me - I've stumbled into the National Front's Grandad forum!

Mate am 18, so poke it! :)

[garynortheast]

So you think that every other person on the planet will react to a beating just like you do you?

[simesb]

I'm proof of it :)

Ah, but you are not the 'scum' who are apparently in need of a good beating to teach them the errors of their ways. ;)

[Sally]

So you think that every other person on the planet will react to a beating just like you do you?

Hardly a beating, some corporal punishment isn't classed as a beating...

I think the neds and scum who we see nowadays are proof that red tape, talking about it, asbo's, soft justice doesn't work.

[garynortheast]

I grew up in a time when "corporal punishment" (beatings) took place at school and capital punishment was used by the state to enforce "justice". The stats show no definite proof that executing people did any such thing and in fact served to send a number of innocent people to the drop - ask Timothy Evans family for their view. As for beatings at school, I saw the same people being repeatedly beaten for the same misdemeanours - very few of them ever "mended their ways".

*All cliches contained in inverted commas.

[garynortheast]

And just because I don't agree with violence as a means of justice doesn't mean that I think an asbo is a particularly effective method either.

[Quedos]

If ASBO's were handed out as they were intended to be the re offending rates wouldn't be so high but England has decided to hand them out like lollipops.
5 years working with ASBO's and we've given out 15 in total - 1 of which has been breached. and 1 to under 21.

saying that I still believe in birching them little sroats

[LankyIanB]

And just because I don't agree with violence as a means of justice doesn't mean that I think an asbo is a particularly effective method either.

So your solution would be.......?

[Bibio]

slightly off topic and hypothetical:

if a child goes to put its hand in a fire what do you do?

now under the cruelty to children act you can only take their hand away and say no.

but what if the child keeps on doing it and eventually sticks its hand in a fire?

the parent gets blamed for not looking after their child.

so one quick slap on the back of the hand and the child recognises fire with pain and stays away from fire (usually).

[Sosha]

I As for beatings at school, I saw the same people being repeatedly beaten for the same misdemeanours - very few of them ever "mended their ways".



Not advocating it but that takes no account of the number that strayed once and decided "Sod that - won't do that again"

Perhaps numbers of excluded pupils now & then could be some sort of measure.

Can only quote a family member when the ban came in "How can they ban the cane? I'd have walked all over them - they'd have had no chance"

[Bibio]

i got belted at school on numerous occasions. what did it teach me? to behave in the class of the teachers that were good at giving the belt.

incidentally, i was terrified of my father when i was a kid so i dare not bring the police to the door for fear of getting three bells knocked out of me. it worked, i learnt to not get caught.

i swore once at my mother when i was a kid. i got knocked senseless by my father, i have never swore at her again.

pain breeds fear, fear breeds respect.

[garynortheast]

I think you're confusing a few things here. Fear does not bred respect. Respect is something to be earned for for behaving like a decent human being. The emotion or sense engendered by fear is not respect, it's just fear. People overcome fear, it's why most totalitarian states built on fear eventually fall.

[Bibio]

i respected my fathers rules as i was scared of him for fear of pain.

[Bibio]

Birch.....or a jolly good fisting

actually some people enjoy that :smt120

[Ed]

Woohoo, another fluffy tree-hugging liberal on here:D

[widepants]

I did alot of work last yr for a couple who were both magistrates ,and they both believed that tieing the scroats to the end of weston pier at high tide was what was needed.Asbo....more like haribo
There were a couple of lads near to where I used to live ,that were that bad a TV documentary was made about them.Did the asbo's work ?Not on your nelly ,but a good hiding saw the back of them

[fenjer]

The Birch.

There is a big difference between capital punishment and a beating.
A short sharp shock and the realisation that if you do that or say that you're going to get a wallop is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

I'd even go as far as to say bring back National Service. Programmes like "Bad Lads Army" showed it worked. Took a bunch of wasters, and turned them into decent law abiding citizens.

There is no respect in society, I'm sorry but if you tell me to respect the little **** who vandalises my car, or my childs school, or who generally doesnt have any respect for me or my property where's that going to get me? The "hug-a-hoodie" campagin didn't work for that reason alone, they dont give a ****, so Mrs Smith being nice to them and giving them a cookie isn't going to make them change.

And yes - I was smacked as a child for misbehaving, my dad only used to have to lift his slipper and I'd be running, even now if he reaches for the slipper or the belt I feel my pulse race and I try to undo whatever I did to upset him. And if my daughter deserves it, and with fair warning she'll get a smack for cheek/misbehaving etc and I have and will do it again in public if I feel it's warranted. So I'm no hypocrite.

[widepants]

To the best of my knowledge it is illegal to smack children in New Zealand and the adults are really having trouble dealing with the kids

[fenjer]

It's illegal here too Widepants. Won't stop me doing it tho. Never did me any harm. Too many "do-gooders" deciding its emotionally damaging to kids etc etc

Whats emotionally damaging is not being able to take your child out in public because s/he wont behave and grows up to be a little toerag because they didnt get the discipline at home.

Thats a whole other debate tho - I think!

[widepants]

http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/Legal+Advice/Child+law/Smacking/Whatisthelawonsmackingchildren

[simesb]

i got belted at school on numerous occasions. what did it teach me? to behave in the class of the teachers that were good at giving the belt.

Seems like you were a slow learner if it took 'numerous' beatings. A real testament to how successful it is as a deterrent.

even now if he reaches for the slipper or the belt I feel my pulse race and I try to undo whatever I did to upset him.

I'm pleased to see that beatings can raise a well balanced adult with children of her own, who is scared of her father's clothing.

[Ed]

Never did me any harm. Too many "do-gooders" deciding its emotionally damaging to kids etc etc



Yes it did do you harm. You admit to being afraid of your father, whom it seems still resorts to belt and slippers, even though you are now an adult, so it plainly can't have worked, and whilst I think you'd never admit it you probably hate him for what he did to you. You need to confront it and stop sweeping it under the carpet. And if it did work, then why does father still resort to belt and slippers?

I have no problem in saying that I hated my father for what he did to me. He made everyone's life hell, my mother's included, but this was the 1960s when it was all but impossible for a married woman with 3 young children to leave. His legacy: dead 23 years now, I have never missed him.

What a world - one based on hatred and fear. As someone else said above, fear never works, because people lose the fear eventually.

And isn't the hatred that violence produces emotionally damaging? Or, in this brave new world, will children be taught to sweep the hatred under the carpet, as well as the fear?

I'm no Gandhi, I have no great solution to the world's problems, but I'm very clear that violence never works.

[davepreston]

Woohoo, another fluffy tree-hugging liberal on here:D
you not got some trees to hug or veggie burgers to cook ;)

[Berlin]

Yes it did do you harm. Etc Etc Etc..

Ed, It seems you have been on the end of *Too Much* violence. And I'm sorry to hear that.

However, that isn't what we are discussing here. We are not talking about being beaten black and blue. We are talking about a swift, Sharp shock. Not prolonged exposure to regular violence.

And the fact that someone flinches at the memory of a smack means it DID work. You remembered it. You remember it was unpleasant and that you don't want it to happen again. Which is *exactly* its purpose.

I can say for certain I wouldn't want a belting (the literal meaning, not what it means now) so I won't be doing anything that warrants one. And I'm 40.


C

[simesb]

We are talking about a swift, Sharp shock.

So in your new world order, who can administer punishment beatings? Police on women in cells (tm)? Anybody on a pikey? How many lashes for speeding or a small number plate (or does this only apply to 'socially unacceptable to the org' crimes).

[fenjer]

Yes it did do you harm. You admit to being afraid of your father, whom it seems still resorts to belt and slippers, even though you are now an adult, so it plainly can't have worked, and whilst I think you'd never admit it you probably hate him for what he did to you. You need to confront it and stop sweeping it under the carpet. And if it did work, then why does father still resort to belt and slippers?


WOAAH! I love my dad, and would never say I hated him. I deserved every smack I got with the slipper, but I didnt get the belt or the slipper every day, only when I'd been really naughty/cheeky/disobedient. He'd never try to use the belt or slipper on me now, I'm an adult. I know the boundaries. I wasn't subject to beatings and I dont need a psychology lesson.

He still resorts to it now to keep my daughter in check when he looks after her, and again only in similar circumstances ie when she really deserves it.

And the fact that someone flinches at the memory of a smack means it DID work. You remembered it. You remember it was unpleasant and that you don't want it to happen again. Which is *exactly* its purpose.

I can say for certain I wouldn't want a belting (the literal meaning, not what it means now) so I won't be doing anything that warrants one.


This.

[metalangel]

How many criminals get their start with a violent father enforcing what he calls 'discipline'? Kid is fed up with being beaten constantly and runs away as soon as they can, stuck on the street, have to survive with petty crime.

[yorkie_chris]

The threat of a clip round the ear should be worse than the clip itself, if given young.

All the problems of the bottom of current society, ounce of prevention, pound of cure and all that.

If it was me in charge, I'd teach any females wanting benefits and such about cooking and looking after kids properly. Benefits given in vouchers not redeemable for fat and E numbers at iceland.
Know better? Fine, fund it yourself.

The problem starts right at the bottom, too late to attack it at ASBO time anyway.

[fenjer]

There's a huge difference between a beating and short sharp shock, or a single smack with a slipper/belt though.

A beating IMO leaves you black and blue and probably unable to move without hurting. Having never been on the recieving end of a "beating" I really couldnt tell you.

YC - I agree, threat of it should be worse than it, and the problem does start at the bottom, and you need to get it there.

[Bibio]

How many criminals get their start with a violent father enforcing what he calls 'discipline'? Kid is fed up with being beaten constantly and runs away as soon as they can, stuck on the street, have to survive with petty crime.

thats due to abusive violence and not 'discipline'. i had a wonderful father who taught me the meaning of right from wrong.

[andrewsmith]

worringly YC the govt. have suggested that food voucher idea

Ur right start at the bottom as asbo time is too late

[Ed]

Can't agree with you, fenjer. Sorry that I offended you. No more lessons from me.

[BigBaddad]

So you think that every other person on the planet will react to a beating just like you do you?

A couple of good beatings and you'll never come home to a crappy meal again. Every other person is female.

[metalangel]

thats due to abusive violence and not 'discipline'. i had a wonderful father who taught me the meaning of right from wrong.

That's just a question of perception, both for you and your dad. He might think you need a lot of discipline, while you (truculent youth) disagree.

[yorkie_chris]

worringly YC the govt. have suggested that food voucher idea

Why worrying?

I'm f***ing sick of seeing low lives who've never done a days work being able to afford to dress their out of control brats in designer gear.

Been the same for years here, when we were kids both my parents worked, we were always dressed fine but in cheap brands... whereas the kids around (ours was ex-council house, lots of council tenants around) all had latest designer kit.


If you're not working, it should be tough. You should be able to eat sparsely but healthy. If you want luxuries then get off your *rse.

[simesb]

A couple of good beatings and you'll never come home to a crappy meal again.

Yay - domestic violence humour :rolleyes: way to go...

[yorkie_chris]

Yay - domestic violence humour :rolleyes: way to go...

Oh **** off... just because you don't have any better ones. :mrgreen:

[simesb]

Oh **** off... just because you don't have any better ones. :mrgreen:

Nah, in the comedy thread it may be fine. In this thread it is just puerile.

[andrewsmith]

I think its a good idea, just the lot in charge will punish the working before the DSS lot

My folk both worked from 16, and as kid we never had designer stuff. I'm still the same I own a handful of designer things (one is me suit).
One of me mates worked it out that he and his wife would be better off being unemployed and having 3 kids, which is the problem its too attractive to people.

I would never sign on out of personal pride. I'd be at rock bottom the day I sign on

[yorkie_chris]

Closer to home than you might think at the moment... but if you can't make light of a bad situation, even though considering it, and acting in all seriousness and honesty then you're just a bit of a c**t.

[fenjer]

Why worrying?

I'm f***ing sick of seeing low lives who've never done a days work being able to afford to dress their out of control brats in designer gear.
If you're not working, it should be tough. You should be able to eat sparsely but healthy. If you want luxuries then get off your *rse.

I think thats a whole other debate tho YC.

There already is a scheme for those on low incomes to get "healthy eating" tokens, for milk, fruit and veg. The trouble is that there are still enough "freedom of choice" types in offices saying "why should we decide what they spend their money on?" And to be fair I can see the point, having been in receipt of them in the past.

Neither me nor my small person wear designer kit.

[yorkie_chris]

I think thats a whole other debate tho YC.

There already is a scheme for those on low incomes to get "healthy eating" tokens, for milk, fruit and veg. The trouble is that there are still enough "freedom of choice" types in offices saying "why should we decide what they spend their money on?" And to be fair I can see the point, having been in receipt of them in the past.

Neither me nor my small person wear designer kit.

I think they're connected intrinsically.

The sort of scroat engaging in anti social behaviour has the attitude that they own the place, the arrogance to attack or intimidate a superior. Because they have no respect, because their parents had no respect.

Respect the system or starve (mandatory training and work), the respect would soon filter down.

With no respect there like that, no respect can be beaten into them later.

[andrewsmith]

Closer to home than you might think at the moment... but if you can't make light of a bad situation, even though considering it, and acting in all seriousness and honesty then you're just a bit of a c**t.

Sorry mate if I've taken a pot shot.

Just in my position atm I would get pretty much nothing from signing on.

[Bibio]

I think thats a whole other debate tho YC.

There already is a scheme for those on low incomes to get "healthy eating" tokens, for milk, fruit and veg.

Neither me nor my small person wear designer kit.

is there?

when i was a kid if you wore designer clothes you got beaten the shiz out of. just like if you had more than 1 girlfriend at the same time.

[yorkie_chris]

Sorry mate if I've taken a pot shot.

Just in my position atm I would get pretty much nothing from signing on.

What? No that was aimed at simesbe whinging about making jokes.

Pot shot away.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Yes it did do you harm. You admit to being afraid of your father, whom it seems still resorts to belt and slippers, even though you are now an adult, so it plainly can't have worked, and whilst I think you'd never admit it you probably hate him for what he did to you. You need to confront it and stop sweeping it under the carpet. And if it did work, then why does father still resort to belt and slippers?

I have no problem in saying that I hated my father for what he did to me. He made everyone's life hell, my mother's included, but this was the 1960s when it was all but impossible for a married woman with 3 young children to leave. His legacy: dead 23 years now, I have never missed him.

What a world - one based on hatred and fear. As someone else said above, fear never works, because people lose the fear eventually.

And isn't the hatred that violence produces emotionally damaging? Or, in this brave new world, will children be taught to sweep the hatred under the carpet, as well as the fear?

I'm no Gandhi, I have no great solution to the world's problems, but I'm very clear that violence never works.

Ed, I think you have made rather a lot of presumptions in this post and tbh, whilst clearly you had a tempestuous relationship with your father, I don't think you can proclaim everyone's relationship with their parents is the same because they got the occasion slap with a slipper.

I got slapped with a slipper, belt, hand on a few occasions, not many, in my childhood and I am a believer that it is an effective method for punishment.

Ed, It seems you have been on the end of *Too Much* violence. And I'm sorry to hear that.

However, that isn't what we are discussing here. We are not talking about being beaten black and blue. We are talking about a swift, Sharp shock. Not prolonged exposure to regular violence.

And the fact that someone flinches at the memory of a smack means it DID work. You remembered it. You remember it was unpleasant and that you don't want it to happen again. Which is *exactly* its purpose.

I can say for certain I wouldn't want a belting (the literal meaning, not what it means now) so I won't be doing anything that warrants one. And I'm 40.


C

Exactly. A few lashes isn't going to leave someone in a "beaten" state but it will be damn well sore and I am pretty sure it would make me think twice about carrying out the same act again.

WOAAH! I love my dad, and would never say I hated him. I deserved every smack I got with the slipper, but I didnt get the belt or the slipper every day, only when I'd been really naughty/cheeky/disobedient. He'd never try to use the belt or slipper on me now, I'm an adult. I know the boundaries. I wasn't subject to beatings and I dont need a psychology lesson.

He still resorts to it now to keep my daughter in check when he looks after her, and again only in similar circumstances ie when she really deserves it.

As did my grandparents and I fully expect my Mum and Dad to discipline any children I may have in the same manner. It was never over the top and I only ever got it when I really deserved it. 9 times out of ten, the "look" was enough to make me stop what I was doing, and then I got the threat and tbh, if I was still continuing, I deserved the smack.

[andrewsmith]

d'oh

wasn't 2 sure

EDIT: this looks like 50 page rant thread

[fenjer]

YC - yes they are linked, but I think we're getting away from the Birch/ASBO topic.

Bibio - yup, it's called "Healthy Start". I dish out enough of the forms to young mums to be in my line of work. The best place I've seen it work however is in a community where they attend voluntary cooking classes, support groups and so and they actually do work to make their lives better. It's not all doom and gloom.

[Bibio]

@ fenjer

do you know if the gov still do the cheese and beef surplus thing?

[fenjer]

No idea.

/derail - sorry folks!

[Bluefish]

Do you actually have any proof for this? Your argument implies that the threat of pain won't stop them, only actual pain after the fact. There are many states worldwide that practice either capital or corporal punishment. These states do not have a nil crime rate, nor a nil re-offending rate, so it can't be totally effective...


what, they re-offend after being dead, thought that only happened in the movies.

[Berlin]

9 times out of ten, the "look" was enough to make me stop what I was doing, and then I got the threat and tbh, if I was still continuing, I deserved the smack.

Never has a Nail been more square on :)

"The look" was the precursor to the belt. You knew that the very next move was yours. Step in the wrong direction and it would hurt. Go the other way and it wouldn't.

It didn't take very many belts at all to realise "the look" was a very important.

And once "the look" was entrenched, it was all it took. Very few slippers/belts used aftert that.

Good parenting. I know three families that have "the Look" down perfectly and their kids are absolute pleasures to be with. Superbly well behaved and polite. And yes, the next step after "the look" is a smack for them too.

C

[Bibio]

Never has a Nail been more square on :)

"The look" was the precursor to the belt. You knew that the very next move was yours. Step in the wrong direction and it would hurt. Go the other way and it wouldn't.

It didn't take very many belts at all to realise "the look" was a very important.

And once "the look" was entrenched, it was all it took. Very few slippers/belts used aftert that.

Good parenting. I know three families that have "the Look" down perfectly and their kids are absolute pleasures to be with. Superbly well behaved and polite. And yes, the next step after "the look" is a smack for them too.

C

very very true. most 'liberals' kids i come across while shopping are little firkin ****z.

[husky03]

I can't wait for Lozzo to coment on this

[Ed]

With my own daughter I have found incentives and sanctions to be far more effective than violence or threats of violence, whether verbal or 'the look'.

We'll never agree:D

[andrewsmith]

The look always used to work
the boot up the **** was even more effective

[Bibio]

With my own daughter I have found incentives and sanctions to be far more effective than violence or threats of violence, whether verbal or 'the look'.

We'll never agree:D

with all respect Ed you dont stay in a run down council estate where your daughter runs about with little scrotes where she is taught the ways of scroteness where the kids are that bad they even set fire to old folks homes and torture animals and get pizzed and think its ok to throw bricks threw peoples windows.

[Ruffy]

with all respect Ed you dont stay in a run down council estate where your daughter runs about with little scrotes where she is taught the ways of scroteness where the kids are that bad they even set fire to old folks homes and torture animals and get pizzed and think its ok to throw bricks threw peoples windows.
Sorry I think that's a cop out. Such a shame that these "scrotes" parents aren't at all shamed by the behaviour of their little inconveniences. At least Ed is taking responsibility for bringing up his daughter. I imagine many of these same scrotes you refer to would get a clout at home simply for getting in the way.

It seems to me that much of society/community is crumbling and being replaced by a selfish, survival of the nastiest philosophy. And violence won't break that cycle, it will only speed it up - escalation along the lines of you look at me, I shout at you, you slap me, I punch you, you kick me, I beat you, you knife me, I kill you (if I survive the knifing).

Now I'm pretty right wing on law and order but I don't believe that violent retribution is the right solution. For me the liberals seem to have forgotten that the concept of punishment is a vital part of justice. If the basics of individual pride along with personal and parental responsibility don't exist then punishment means nothing and any rehabilitation or education is wasted.

I think that's fundamentally why ASBOs are ineffective - there's no associated shame or lifestyle deprivation. For the other alternative, birching, when the stinging from the whip subsides the only lessons learnt are to be more careful not to get caught or to get stronger/nastier so that the person wielding the birch becomes the one in fear.

[Bibio]

and all respect to Ed for bringing up his daughter with love and attention.

the 'scrotes' i am on about have parents who are so messed up on smack that they do not care what their little angels get up to. they are left to fend fro themselves so 'team up' with like minded and same circumstance kids who form gangs of youths who are that angry at society. the only time they get attention is when they have done something wrong. they have been brought up with parents who have no morals so think its ok to be the same.

it sickens me going to the chemist and i see children on 12 yrs old standing in a queue waiting to get their daily dose of methadone.

[garynortheast]

So dishing out a bit more pain to them is what will sort them out then is it?

[Bibio]

trust me when i say this... YES its the only thing that 'gets threw to them'.

i live the life of having to put up with the little angels every day and i have been on the receiving end of their high spirits on more occasions than i care to mention. and why, coz they know that i couldn't do anything about it, don't even start to say 'get the police involved' coz they don't give a fek and do nowt. i was suffering form a heart condition my wife is severely disabled and my kids are nerds who have been bullied from day 1 at school because they wont join the ranks.

so dont go preaching to me how its not their fault and that 'pain' is not the answer as i can tell you that it was such a thing that eventually put a stop to all their nonsense.

[yorkie_chris]

Reality vs theory... same as it always comes to

[Berlin]

Keith D is doing well! He's got a fall back job at the very least :)

C

[husky03]

So dishing out a bit more pain to them is what will sort them out then is it?

matey do you live in a world where the houses are surrounded by white picket fences ?-i've been involved in programs where thousands of pounds have been spent on these scrotes to try and change them but nothing works-they now think that their due the trips abroad and the sports trips and that no matter what they do to decent folk nothing will happen to them.

trust me when i say this... YES its the only thing that 'gets threw to them'.

I even doubt that now-watched a young guy grow up from 11 to 17 who was determined to get jail time as it was his badge of honour on the street,he's a member of one of glasgows most violent and dangerous gangs, he's been stabbed numerous times,spent weekends in the cells, got shot in the arm and hand with a sawn off( but refused to go to hospital with me) nothing makes any difference to him and his cronies.

i live the life of having to put up with the little angels every day and i have been on the receiving end of their high spirits on more occasions than i care to mention. and why, coz they know that i couldn't do anything about it, don't even start to say 'get the police involved' coz they don't give a fek and do nowt. i was suffering form a heart condition my wife is severely disabled and my kids are nerds who have been bullied from day 1 at school because they wont join the ranks.

sorry bud but most of us do give a feck and i can guarantee you that when i go to any call/incident i treat the public the way i would want my family to be treated if it was them on the recieving end, and most of my fellow coppers are the same -our hands are tied, plain and simple and the thing is the scum know it.I can see my kids having to go through something similar because there is no way i'm gonna let them turn out like the feral losers that seem to make up the majority of the youth of today.


so dont go preaching to me how its not their fault and that 'pain' is not the answer as i can tell you that it was such a thing that eventually put a stop to all their nonsense.

They know the difference between right and wrong only they choose wrong over right.




Reality vs theory... same as it always comes to

Or real world vs pink fluffy cloud world

[Ed]

'the feral losers that seem to make up the majority of the youth of today. '

oh dear

[husky03]

'the feral losers that seem to make up the majority of the youth of today. '

oh dear



yes i know it is a shame ed

[Ed]

On that note... I'm outta here, can't add anything more. Nothing will convince me that violence is the answer, so I have every bit as much of a closed mind as everyone else:lol:

[yorkie_chris]

yes i know it is a shame ed

Maybe the majority you end up dealing with at work... but the overall majority aren't that bad.

[andrewsmith]

Keith D is doing well! He's got a fall back job at the very least :)

C

Hahaha

[Milky Bar Kid]

Maybe the majority you end up dealing with at work... but the overall majority aren't that bad.

You don't live in Glasgow...:rolleyes:

[andrewsmith]

You don't live in Glasgow...:rolleyes:

or Newcastle