stealer dealers not honouring warranty....

[Dave20046]

Anyone know anything about trading standards/small claims court?
Bought a car from a stealer t'other month (stockport based) and within a thousand miles the clutch has shagged taking the flywheel with it. When I bought it I asked them about if there were any problems etc. and it was re-enforced that I could take it anywhere I liked under warranty.


Anyway, took it to my local dealership and had the above diagnosed they quoted a healthy £1200 to get it fixed the dealer I bought it from said "no can do ,warranty claims are limited to jobs of £1000 or less" so my local dealer agreed to take the job on at trade which is (an amusingly expensive) sum of £798 + vat (£960ish) around £64 per hour labour.
The dealer I bought it from then came back and said we can only pay £50 per hour for warranty repairs, this is not stated in my warranty book and was not mentioned at anytime during the purchase.

I need my car back asap so my options are pretty limited - will I get further bent over if I agree to pay the grand to get my car back on the road (and earn a living) and then take the seller to small claims court?

[Specialone]

Mate, if it doesn't say their warranty is restricted to £50 per hour, then they cannot refuse to pay for it.

I didnt think they could limit the amount of purchase warranty either, I'd check with trading standards on that.
If it's a wearable item, you'll probably struggle to get the full amount (?).

[Dave20046]

They've agreed it's under warranty they're just saying they won't pay out £50 per hour labour which local dealer wants, if I take it anywhere else it'll take weeks.
It does say in the warranty book about the £1k claim limit (read it through and noted that when I bought) but it doesn't say anywhere about labour cap.

I'm yet to get the logbook, dealer book and a broken bit of interior plastics off this dealer after about 20 calls (still waiting on a call back from monday actually :rolleyes:)
Me and the VW dealer have hounded them all day and keep getting hung up on with a "ring you back in 2 minutes" so as I don't trust them one bit I won't let the sellers do the repair themselves (as it almost certainly won't get done). When he put this to me I said "You told me when I bought the car I could take it anywhere I like to be repaired" he said yeah you can but as long as they don't charge more then £50per hour and I said "well you didn't mention that at the time did you and you've admitted it doesn;t say it in my warranty book"
...at that he said he'd ring my vw dealer and try and get the price down a bit more...
VW dealer rang me at 6pm saying he'd rung back quibbling about price and said he'd ring back in the morning.


I just need it resolving asap without opening myself up to losing a grand!

Any fresh ideas would be appreciated!

[Specialone]

Call trading standards mate urgently, just cos their paperwork says something it doesn't mean it's correct and legal.
Bigger companies than his have made big errors in their t'&c's.

[Dave20046]

Call trading standards mate urgently, just cos their paperwork says something it doesn't mean it's correct and legal.
Bigger companies than his have made big errors in their t'&c's.

bugger, closed now - will ring them in the morning.

[Bibio]

why cant you get the dealer you got it form to do the work?

[Specialone]

why cant you get the dealer you got it form to do the work?

What just a car sales dealership ?
I wouldn't trust them to wash it tbh

[Bibio]

in my defence he never stated that the dealership was a forecourt only.

[Specialone]

in my defence he never stated that the dealership was a forecourt only.

I'm not sure they are mate tbh, I'm guessing because they haven't offered to fix it themselves, they are just forecourt sales.

[Dave20046]

why cant you get the dealer you got it form to do the work?

It's miles away and experience up to now tells me not to trust them (more so than my average dealer scepticism) I also don't think they could offer me a courtesy car which would most likely mean me getting the sack (car hire places round here are insisting on people being 25y.o).
...And the fact the guy told me multiple times I could get any problems resolved at a dealer of my choice "that's the great thing about our warranty".


Furthermore I firmly believe they knew about this when selling it. Is it possible to conceal the issue? it took 500 miles to rear it's head (less than a week). On the test drive I mentioned the clutch feel in passing and the guy edgily sprung in with "ah this model has a dual mass flywheel that's why it feels different from your old one" ... I thought it was just his sales way but it was noted. There was a plastic in the boot that was broken, at first he tried to deny it's existence (As if I'd done it) after weeks of phonecalls (it's due to turn up at my house tomorrow incidentally :rolleyes:) he goes "ah yeah sorry, I've been away for a few days it;s the golf with the boot plastic with a hole at the right hand side isn't it?"
I never actually described the damage to him....so he did know about it!

[Dave20046]

I'm not sure they are mate tbh, I'm guessing because they haven't offered to fix it themselves, they are just forecourt sales.

]as I don't trust them one bit I won't let the sellers do the repair themselves (as it almost certainly won't get done). When he put this to me I said "You told me when I bought the car I could take it anywhere I like to be repaired" he said yeah you can but as long as they don't charge more then £50per hour and I said "well you didn't mention that at the time did you and you've admitted it doesn;t say it in my warranty book"
...at that he said he'd ring my vw dealer and try and get the price down a bit more...

They do have an inhouse mechanic who ,when described on the phone the sales bloke had known all the way since school

...his name slipped his memory in another dealing though.


By the way this sales man owns and rides a Harley Davidson.
:)

[arenalife]

Whatever is on the paper with whatever company they use (if if they do) doesn't alter your statutory rights - which put them up crap creek. If they don't sort it reasonably, small claims for sure.

[Dave20046]

Whatever is on the paper with whatever company they use (if if they do) doesn't alter your statutory rights - which put them up crap creek. If they don't sort it reasonably, small claims for sure.

I'm sure I remember him saying it's underwritten by themselves "which is why we have the flexibility to let you use a local garage of your choice". Either way I don't know whether to chose paying for it from the dealer and giving them the chance to wriggle out of it at court (or pay me £2.50 a week for the rest of my life) or to try a cheaper garage (who I don't know or trust to do it right) and hope it can be sorted amicably - although this option means I'll have to go a week without a car which will leave me royally ****ed work and home wise. And then they may still make up a new clause in the warranty as to why this other garage can't do it.

[Bibio]

how long have you had the car Dave?

is it on finance?

[Dave20046]

actually the 'administrator' of the contract is "car care plan Ltd"

[Dave20046]

how long have you had the car Dave?

is it on finance?

No finance, had it around 3 weeks - might be 4 now.
Only complication with returning it under sales of goods act is I traded in my old car which let me down (I was buying a new one at great expence from a dealer for a bit of reliability :rolleyes:)
I knew I'd have problems tbh.

[fizzwheel]

actually the 'administrator' of the contract is "car care plan Ltd"

Why dont you ring them direct and see if you get any sense out of them ?

[Dave20046]

Why dont you ring them direct and see if you get any sense out of them ?
Nice thinking batman , on the list for tomorrow.
cheers - they should be able to tell me exactly what their stipulations are.
(although if the stipulation exists... I still think it should be mentioned at the time of sale as it's not specified in the exclusions and inclusions in the handbook)

[fizzwheel]

Gotta be worth a try, at least that way you cut the dealership out of the loop that are faffing you about and you'll definately know what you can or cannot do.

[Specialone]

I'm pretty sure there is something about the first 3 months of a car purchase and your statutory rights as someone said earlier.

Don't forget, you could claim for a car hire as the car you bought from them isn't fit for purpose so therefore is causing you work issues.

You defo need to find out your rights from trading standards.

Side note, VW's are built like tanks, what has that car been upto for this to happen ?

Edit, don't pay for the work yourself cos you will struggle to get it back .

[Dave20046]

I'm pretty sure there is something about the first 3 months of a car purchase and your statutory rights as someone said earlier.

Don't forget, you could claim for a car hire as the car you bought from them isn't fit for purpose so therefore is causing you work issues.

You defo need to find out your rights from trading standards.

Side note, VW's are built like tanks, what has that car been upto for this to happen ?

Edit, don't pay for the work yourself cos you will struggle to get it back .
Will have another google for my statutory rights but unfortunately no where will let me hire a car round here as I'm under 25 :( - used to be 21 but insurance conditions have upped it - no chance for young'ns is there?!

It was an ex company car, he tried claiming this was a good thing at the time of sale but as I told him - company cars get ragged to ****ery.
It's been driven like an IAM examiner's grandfather since it's been in my ownership and thoroughly warmed up etc etc. as it's worth more than me!

[yorkie_chris]

How much would a normal garage want to do the clutch?

Why didn't you just buy something decent and easy to work on for half the price? Tard :-P

[thefallenangel]

If you bought it under finance throw it back as it's not fit for purpose. Leave them with a car on their forecourt which is knackered.

[Dave20046]

Called car care plan -they just administer it, its underwritten by the dealer themselves.with no mention of a labour cap at sale or in the warranty documentation I reckon I'll just have to get the two dealers to make an agreement and I'll make up the difference and take it to court. poo

Chris its 5 hours labour I've 3 local indie garages (40 an hour ish) 2 don't want to touch it and the vag specialist (giggity)is on holiday

[454697819]

so has the work been carried out?

[speedplay]

5 hours labour for a clutch seems pretty excesive.
An independent clutch centre had my clutch on the freelander replaced in a morning.

[Dave20046]

Not yet

[Dave20046]

aclutch plus fly wheel if that makes much difference speedplay

[speedplay]

5 hours does seem a bit steep though.
Is it just an estimated time in case they hit trouble?
The problem is, if they estimate 5 hours and you say ok, they usually take 5 hours to do the job ;)
Is the dealership part of a chain or are they both independent main dealers?
If they are both linked, I'd let them fight it out between them but As Phil has rightly said, if they are messing you about, a call to trading standards wouldn't go amis.

[timwilky]

Flywheel probably takes a further 15 minutes to remove/fit new

[Dave20046]

THought as much

No theres no affiliation between the dealers
,ones a 'family' one and the local one is a franchise vag family one

[454697819]

I would insist that the garage that sold the care find a garage they are happy with the price of near to you, make them do the work, make them sort it, or tell them they have three hours to resolve ti with VW before you will instruct the works and take them to court if they don't pay up..

also check because warranties don't always cover clutches as they are classed as a consumable..

[Electro]

5 hours labour for a clutch seems pretty excesive.
An independent clutch centre had my clutch on the freelander replaced in a morning.

Sounds like the clutch is similar to Fords dual mass setup, 6 hoursish for one of those, you have to replace the clutch plate, flywheel and slave cylinder. The clutch itself will be fine, its the flywheel that goes if its a dual mass. My mondeo clutch pedal hit the floor a few months ago and the flywheel wrecked the slave cylinder because it had died. Nothing wrong with the clutch plate but replaced all of it. The parts cost over £350 and me and 2 mates swapped it over 2 days, cheapest garage quote for that was £750. Had to drop the front subframe and then get it lined up correctly afterwards. Ifits nothing like this on a VW, i aint got a clue lol.

[Dave20046]

Yeah its dual mass whatever that is!two flywheels?LOL
JUst caught him lieing to me and flipped,spoke to the md ,they reckon they'll now instruct the vw dealer to go ahead.will see if they do...

[Electro]

The dualmass flywheel has an inner disc thats bolted to the crank as a solid normal one does, but the outer which the clutch plate goes against isnt fixed solidly and absorbs torque by rotating slightly. The inner and outer slowly seperate and the vibration kills the slave cylinder (on mine). Many swap to solid systems but due to the torque saving dualmass system, solid conversions can cause crank damage.
You are pretty lucky that this has been covered by the warranty as said before, but if a fault on the vehicle was known about and not disclosed you are covered by some law now. Would be good if you could get hold of the previous driver to see if the fault had been flagged. I know on my mondeo there was a ding ding ding noise when in neutral and the clutch wasnt dipped, when the clutch was pressed the noise vanished.

[AndyBrad]

in all honesty dave having delt with these things before. I would take the rate at 50 quid and pay the difference myself. Something better than nothing and attempt to get it back later. Hes "in theory" agreed to the repair anyways as hes not said no?

[Dave20046]

ANdy,was about to do exactly that before I caught him right out lying - and from there on in it went in my favour.Sheffield vw are fitting it as we type.

CHeers for that electro,just followed it up with a Google to see if its a common fault on golfs...which it is :( going to be bricking it about when its next going to fail now.they've been known to go as little as 10k, doubt they'd let me do a solidmass flywheel conversion under warranty though ...Ho hum

[Dave20046]

drives lovely now.
- declined their kind offer to see to the (out of warranty) split CV boot at £130 though.

Looking at the invoice, I can appreciate why the dealer I bought the car from was a bit miffed; despite the discounts, the parts are still over Volkswagen's RRP. Shame they went about it completely the wrong way or I might have done them a favour.