Brakes - some advice required

[joolski]

Hi All,

I've recently got myself a MiniTwin race bike, last week I completed my 3rd test session at Mallory since owning the bike. Things are going nicely, and I've got the bike setup for my lanky frame (6foot 4inches), and it's starting to feel pretty planted.

However, as with all things racing as soon as you go faster, there is always the increased need to stop ! Which is where I'm coming unstuck.

I think the bike has stock disks and lever, but hel brake lines, but after a few hours on the track I'm having to bleed the brakes to get some brakes back !

Is this normal ? Also, what do other racers do ?

Cheers !

--Jools

[Matty Boy]

Hi there mate,

Im new to the minitwin game too and in a pretty similar position! This is one area I have been suffering with on track!

Up untill recently I had been using EBC sintered pads, but now ive been finding some more pace I just cant get on with them! They seem to act like an on/off switch with no mid range feel, and in heavy braking areas feels as tho the front will lock up.

I switched to Performance Friction pads and for me, they transformed the bike! They give me alot more confidence to brake later.I am not a front runner so I cant talk for the top guys, so I can only speak from the point at which im at now.

I have standard calipers and discs under the minitwin regs.

Hope this helps.....Matty Boy ;)

[RGV500]

I'd recommend the PF pads too they transformed the braking on my MT.

[andrewsmith]

I'm tempted to say you've either boiled your brakes or have a loose bolt on the M/C or calipers

What pads you got on the bike?

[coxxy]

A common problem on these brakes really designed for stopping on an orange traffic light!

It was a similar case with ours two seasons ago, lots of fade and lever to bar problems leaving a concerned rider.

It took the following to get them as hot as was needed to run at the front of the MRO pack:

1. PF pads with 2mm+ wear left
2. Hel lines, blue preferred
3. Racing blue or top spec brake fluid (SRF Racing)
4. Spotlessly clean internals on calipers and master cylinder, blown through with air lines or brake cleaner
5. Polished pistons in calipers, mirror finish
6. New seals on caliper and master cylinder
7. Spotlessly clean caliper externals for good heat loss
8. System bleed at top banjo joint (double banjo bolt with bleed nipple helps)
9. Removal of dust seals on calipers and pre use clean over with brake cleaner including discs
10. Stock brake discs with no warping and min thickness + left on wear, keep dust free for good heat loss
11. Disc bobbins in good condition
12. New fluid every 3 race weekends


Keeping all this in tip top condition and the brake pads will wear and profile onto the disc gaining more and more bite, the lever will become stiffer and stiffer after each bleeding cycle with no fade at all eventually possible.

Hope this helps!

coxxy

[joolski]

A common problem on these brakes really designed for stopping on an orange traffic light!

It was a similar case with ours two seasons ago, lots of fade and lever to bar problems leaving a concerned rider.

It took the following to get them as hot as was needed to run at the front of the MRO pack:

1. PF pads with 2mm+ wear left
2. Hel lines, blue preferred
3. Racing blue or top spec brake fluid (SRF Racing)
4. Spotlessly clean internals on calipers and master cylinder, blown through with air lines or brake cleaner
5. Polished pistons in calipers, mirror finish
6. New seals on caliper and master cylinder
7. Spotlessly clean caliper externals for good heat loss
8. System bleed at top banjo joint (double banjo bolt with bleed nipple helps)
9. Removal of dust seals on calipers and pre use clean over with brake cleaner including discs
10. Stock brake discs with no warping and min thickness + left on wear, keep dust free for good heat loss
11. Disc bobbins in good condition
12. New fluid every 3 race weekends


Keeping all this in tip top condition and the brake pads will wear and profile onto the disc gaining more and more bite, the lever will become stiffer and stiffer after each bleeding cycle with no fade at all eventually possible.

Hope this helps!

coxxy


Excellent advice ! Many thanks for taking the time to write all this up, very useful.

Cheers !

--Jools

[Sy-superfly]

I was going to post a thing up about pads where do you get the PF pads?

[andrewsmith]

PM SV650Racer

[Whitty]

I had same probs on my gsxr600 srad. Hel lines, ebc pads, bigger piston m/cyl off 750 etc. Rebuilt calipers and tried SBS race/track pads and thought it was sorted till five laps in at cadwell and lever starts coming in to bar! Kept pumping lever then tying with an elastic band to get any minute bubbles out between sessions and it would be ok for about 5 laps again. It turned out to be master cylinder seals off my 'bargain' mod m/cyl from ebay. They looked ok but new kit transformed them. As for ebc pads try SBS ones (track not road obviously). Ithink they are excellent and cheaper than pf if you shop around. There is a chap sells them on ebay, I will try dig him out.

[coxxy]

I was going to post a thing up about pads where do you get the PF pads?

PM SV650Racer

I wouldnt buy them there (cost quoted 103.30 pair) too expensive, go here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-SV-650-Performance-Friction-BRAKE-PADS-/220778163491?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3367676d23

Lots cheaper at 85.50 including express postage.

These PF Pads last a lot longer and are usually good for at least 3 race weekends but worth the extra cost over others.
Forgot to add, buy genuine Suzuki seals not cheaper copies.

[k1ngy SV]

what dot brake fluid are you running ? maybe a higher dot would help.

[coxxy]

what dot brake fluid are you running ? maybe a higher dot would help.

use this its **!!! HOT:

http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/products/5-ate-super-blue-racing-brake-fluid-1-litre.aspx

[andrewsmith]

another pad suggestion is ferodo cp211. Nowt until they're hot and they shame pf thereafter

[coxxy]

Not sure about nowt!?

[koss]

what dot brake fluid are you running ? Maybe a higher dot would help.
dot 5.1

[koss]

Dry boiling poin Wet boiling point

DOT 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_3) 205C (401F) 140 °C (284 °F)
DOT 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_4) 230 °C (446 °F) 155 °C (311 °F)
DOT 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5) 260 °C (500 °F) 180 °C (356 °F)
DOT 5.1 270 °C (518 °F) 190 °C (374 °F)

[SV650Racer]

Dry boiling poin Wet boiling point

DOT 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_3) 205C (401F) 140 °C (284 °F)
DOT 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_4) 230 °C (446 °F) 155 °C (311 °F)
DOT 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5) 260 °C (500 °F) 180 °C (356 °F)
DOT 5.1 270 °C (518 °F) 190 °C (374 °F)

We use Silkolene Pro Race, it has a dry boiling point of 315oc / wet 204oc. Works very well. Swopped to this as is half the cost of the SRF.

That with PF pads...:cool:

[yvo6]

I'd recommend the PF pads too they transformed the braking on my MT.


I have both my race bikes on PF pads and they are great. Just very expensive but worth it.

[Berlin]

For those recommending race pads, could they also list the other pads they've tried?

It helps in getting a better idea of performance. if you've only ever used (say) PF then saying you like them is not a lot of use.

and also having EBC race lite discs will completely transform the braking. So could they also state whether they are running standard discs or not?

A recommendation saying "I've tried SBS, EBC Race, Ferrodo, Vesrah and PF and PF pads have better all round performance but not as much outright bite as XYZ and better wet performance than ABC. They also produce less dust that LMN and have a better wear rate than STU"

... is a whole lot more informative.

Ta very much ;-)

C

[yvo6]

I've used Carbone Lorraine, SBS, EBC and PF and for me I prefer PF as it gives a more progressive brake than the CL and SBS.

This is a matter of preference as everyone has different thoughts on how they like a brake to feel eg some grab the brake and others like progressive - but there again I'm sh**e slow anyways :)


:smt052

[MOTO-TECH]

We have used all sorts in the past, but the last 2 seasons we have used Ferodo XRAC in the SV's & the superbike. Both riders love them & they have given us 5 championships between them. These pads last well, bite straight away with no bedding & are cheaper than CP211 or PF.

Brian

[twowheels]

Brian - Where can you get these pads for the sv from? id like to give them a go

[MOTO-TECH]

We stock them, Give me a shout.
07713147527

Brian.

[jrussell]

For those of you using the PF pads, which compound are you using, 95 or 07?

John