Teens and Early Twenties.....PLEASE!!

[Milky Bar Kid]

I don't agree it is unfair. That is not what this thread is for. Uneducated guesses are not what we need at the moment. Please bear in mind the possibility his family will be reading this and we are guessing at how he died.

We repeatedly had this argument after Hovis died. A friend has died. I am quite hardened to these things but I don't want to know the details. And if I don't then there will be others and I doubt his family will want to be reading us discussing the details.

[Specialone]

I would certainly like to know what, how or if anything went wrong as looking at the corner, it didn't seem a particularly bad one and it was one Andrew knew well apparently so it would be good to find out the details of the accident IMO.

[Red Herring]

This thread is about encouraging people to consider change as a result of what happened to a friend. You could argue that by asking people to be careful we are somehow implying that Reeder was not, yet I don't think anybody has seen it that way. UrbanFireblade didn't make an uneducated guess, there is evidence to suggest that Reeder had recently fitted new tyres and we know he left the road, but I do agree we shouldn't speculate that one led to the other and I did agree with you on that. I just don't think you should be putting someone down for trying to understand what happened, and I am confident that any member of Reeders family reading this would understand that.

[Milky Bar Kid]

We'll agree to disagree.

[-Ralph-]

We don't know what happened and we don't need people guessing and/or speculating on things

We don't NEED it, but I don't see what he's done so wrong, it's human nature when somebody dies to want to know what happened, and if that information isn't available, then it's human nature to speculate.

I understand not wanting people to jump to conclusions about what happened, it could be Reeder encountered something in the road, it could be there was a mechanical failure on his bike, or you could plain and simple be that he screwed up a corner, we don't know, but as RH says once that information is available I can only see the benefit in sharing it.

You're being a bit hard on the guy IMO, rebuke not proportional to the post he made.

[Dipper]

Reading air accident investigation reports is actively encouraged for pilots, does anyone know if there's a similar database for road accidents?

[MisterTommyH]

I wouldn't think so. It's difficult to get and understand the KSI figures.

On the other point I think it's natural for people to want to understand why something has happened, especially when it's something that has happened as part of a shared interest, and with such severe consequences. I do however agree that it's not really helpful to debate or speculate without more information, which will probably not be available for some time.

[-Ralph-]

Reading air accident investigation reports is actively encouraged for pilots, does anyone know if there's a similar database for road accidents?

The police certainly keep records of the report cards that all officers fill in when they attend an accident, time, date, road layout, vehicle position, etc. This is what much of the DFT report I posted above is based upon. I don't know if these details are ever entered into a central, national, database however.

[missyburd]

If I had died through my own error or no on the bike I would want other folk to know what went wrong to prevent the same thing happening again and wiping someone else out. Unfortunately, without witnesses, not quite so easy a thing to demonstrate but wherever possible I would want it known. As said, that corner doesn't look particularly bad but the facts may well emerge at a later date.

I don't think anyone's guessing, just trying to draw conclusions from what's available. Human curiosity and wanting to justify the loss of a life, not a crime really but folk are bound to be a tad sensitive on the topic just now so maybe leave it a wee while.

[Owenski]

Catching back up on this after weekend; I Didn't quite realise the bulk of my previous posts, sorry if you're one who actually read them. In response to the related posts. I never contest the suggestion of training, that would be extremely ignorant to talk down a suggestion just because it surpasses my own levels of qualification. So again, I never contested the suggestion I simple question the depth of validity of that report. Ralph admits he too thinks its BS, it's just BS which at least made an effort to base it self on fact compered to the normal unfiltered tripe we find our fish and chips wrapped in.

An you know what I mean about been busy when you're under 25. Half the day is spent asleep 'tv' is an essential part of whats left of the day and after a few hours on a game console you've barely enough time to shower before working 20mins behind a bar.

It's not busy as I now know it, (wife kid mortgage part time degree etc etc). But at the time you definitely don't think you've got time for such tediums as a survey.

[-Ralph-]

It makes you think twice about what looks like a safe run off, doesn't it.

and buildings, and high kerbs, and bollards, and road signs, and telegraph poles, and lampposts, and armco, and garden walls, and parked cars, and bridges, and rock faces, and wheelie bins, and park benches, and bus shelters, and large ceramic plant pots, and...

You trying to say, make the corner, make the corner, but no your not, because that would imply something had gone wrong, and what you really mean is if you were set up correctly in the first place ( position speed gear etc) then you don't really have to worry about those things?

All I'm trying to say is on the road there is very rarely such thing as a safe run off, once you've left the bike, it's pot luck what you hit. The only place with a safe run off is a race track. If you are actually thinking about safe run offs, get yourself on a track day.

[-Ralph-]

Ralph admits he too thinks its BS

I certainly wouldn't say it's BS, I would just say that it isn't infallible, but no such report is. To do any kind of analysis you have to work with the data you have, decide upon a methodology, make some assumptions, and draw some conclusions. I do think though that kind of report carried out by an organisation like the DFT, or ROSPA, although not perfect, is the best source we have.

[Owenski]

lol I agree more with your earlier statement then, stats are all lies.
The basis of that report is bloody weak, and if thats the strongest we can get then whats the point?
You know they should just use facebook, if that documentary the other night is correct then news and views spread quicker on there than they can through any other media.

[-Ralph-]

The basis of that report is bloody weak, and if thats the strongest we can get then whats the point?

Well that's what the government are using to define their policies on motorbike road safety, and how they decide how to run the THINK! campaign, so if you think it's bloody weak, you'd better join MAG and get writing to the DFT!

[Owenski]

In honesty though I have no better suggestion, you cant force people to respond. Short of doing road side stops across the country over a full 24 hour period of god knows how many days I couldnt give you an idea of where to get better figures from.
Like I said before, well over half of the respondants on that report took the old style test these people cannot be in the lowest age demographic. Of the remaining respondants less than 15% had taken DAS, so 15% of respondants were forming 100% of a demographic and thats NOT including those within that 15% who were taking thier test and were already over 30.
I hold my hands up I cant give you a legitimate alternative to that report but its just not got me convinced that motocylists over 30 outnumber those under 30 by 4:1.

I've got an idea, why dont we conduct our own poll right here on the org. I know you love poll's it'd need mulitple options but the gist could be.

Pick One which best describes you:

Age 16-30 Ride daily - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 16-30 Ride daily - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 16-30 Ride daily - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 16-30 Ride daily - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

Age 16-30 Ride for leasure - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 16-30 Ride for leasure - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 16-30 Ride for leasure - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 16-30 Ride for leasure - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

Age 31-45 Ride daily - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 31-45 Ride daily - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 31-45 Ride daily - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 31-45 Ride daily - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

Age 31-45 Ride for leasure - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 31-45 Ride for leasure - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 31-45 Ride for leasure - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 31-45 Ride for leasure - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

Age 46+ Ride daily - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 46+ Ride daily - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 46+ Ride daily - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 46+ Ride daily - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

Age 46+ Ride for leasure - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)
Age 46+ Ride for leasure - Had a Serious Accident ROWV
Age 46+ Ride for leasure - Had a serious accident on a bend
Age 46+ Ride for leasure - Had a serious due to other (Mechanical, Weather)

I'll belive what ever result that poll produced.

[MisterTommyH]

Age 16-30 Ride for leasure - Never had a Serious Accident (involved emergencey services)

[dizzyblonde]

Age 26-35.(spanned both groups)

Commute, ride daily(rarely now), leisure, pleasure, Euro, anytime, any weather. Done the lot.

Never had a serious accident(involving emergency services).

One off at 10mph.

One collision with deer.

[Balky001]

Age 31-45. Commuted and rode daily but now ride for leisure. Never had serious accident (involving ES) (2 offs below 50mph, several near misses)

[Owenski]

*FACEPALM

No I meant an actual poll lol not responding in here.

[MisterTommyH]

But there's too many options....

I thought you'd volunteered to collate all the data and make graphs and everything :)

[Owenski]

my gaffers away tommy so I could.... but I wont :)

and dizzy how do you span 2 age groups? surely you're either in one or another do you mean over your riding life time you've been in both?

EDIT:
if it was done as a proper poll than I'll agree to make some varied graphs based on the results.

[dizzyblonde]

and dizzy how do you span 2 age groups? surely you're either in one or another do you mean over your riding life time you've been in both?

.

In my riding life I've been in both age groups ;) In fact the majority of my riding was done when I was younger, its only stalled in the last two years for obvious reasons.

[Owenski]

I assumed as much and it does raise a good point, Ralph is that survey based on data relating to the previous 12 months? if so then surely the org survey should be too. It'd be no good collating data across a riders life time it leaves too many variables open to contest.

[dizzyblonde]

If you were to use me as a prototype, experience has a lot to answer for....as it will with a hell of a lot of orgers.

A survey would indeed would be open to far too many variables in this case. For instance, Pegs riding life spans between something daft like the ages of 11-41!
However hes had one major off involving emergency services, and has probaby covered 50 times the amount of miles some do in a lifetime half of that span, riding everyday for commuting and for leisure too.

[-Ralph-]

You couldn't get a decent demographic from this forum either. It's an SV650 forum, a bike which performs well and when restricted to 33bhp, a favourite first big bike, with group 9 or 10 insurance, which can be bought new for 2/3rds of the price of most of it's nearest competitors. This forum has it's own demographical characteristics which particularly suit young or new riders.

[Owenski]

precisely, we get em of all ages on here and everyone knows you never leave the org lol. we're like the mob lol

[stewie]

precisely, we get em of all ages on here and everyone knows you never leave the org lol. we're like the mob lol
Its like hotel California 'you can check out but you'll never leave' :)

[NTECUK]

It's not just trees that can hert
http://www.buryfreepress.co.uk/news/motorcyclist-critically-injured-in-crash-1-3655851

[Dave20046]

precisely, we get em of all ages on here and

aye, but us under 25s are two busy with our kids and wives to complete a poll....even on the org

The barnsley members will have grandkids to watch aswell.