What grease to use on bolts?

[Winder]

I have started using copper grease on all my bolts and behind my pads as my old curvy had almost every bolt rusted solid. Is copper grease the best thing to be using or should it only be used on bolts that are in areas that will get corroded easily like bottom yokes and brake calipers etc?

[maviczap]

Yep I can't think of many bolts you shouldn't use them on. I know brake caliper seals don't like copper grease, but behind the pads is fine.

The only ones you shouldn't use cppoer grease on are ones which use loctite on, to stop them coming undone, ie disc rotor bolts .

[andrewsmith]

Yep I can't think of many bolts you shouldn't use them on. I know brake caliper seals don't like copper grease, but behind the pads is fine.

The only ones you shouldn't use cppoer grease on are ones which use loctite on, to stop them coming undone, ie disc rotor bolts .

As above.
I use a mix of copper grease and studlock on places where they can sieze solid ie: fork leg lock bolts, caliper mount bolts.
Did this for a few years and not had any issues

[tigersaw]

I put in on threads everywhere, other places that just need some general grease like axles etc I use ACF50 grease.

[Winder]

Thanks guys, just thought you might be using something different or new. My mates ZX10 is basically covered in ACF 50, i mean fairings, frame, forks, exhaust the lot. Didn't know it was grease? Thought it was more of a protective laquer or film or something?
That's interesting, thanks.

[Tomor]

Acf also make a corrosion resistant grease. I use that on most places and acf spray everywhere else.

[squirrel_hunter]

I wouldn't recommend using copper grease on banjo bolt threads. And yes I have seen this being done. And no it was not me.

I only noticed he had done it when he came to the second caliper, so he then had to strip that caliper down as well as the first one to ensure it was all cleaned out.

[Winder]

I wouldn't recommend using copper grease on banjo bolt threads. And yes I have seen this being done. And no it was not me.

I only noticed he had done it when he came to the second caliper, so he then had to strip that caliper down as well as the first one to ensure it was all cleaned out.

Ha ha. Close call.

[Bibio]

As above.
I use a mix of copper grease and studlock

ermmm that pretty much defeats the purpose of threadloc :rolleyes:

[andrewsmith]

It works tbh, the threadlock works as a stiffening agent with the copper grease

sent from a phone

[Fallout]

While we're asking about copper grease, is there a technique to applying it to spark plugs? Obviously you don't want a wadge of it falling into the engine over time. Is it just 'a tiny bit'? What happens when you put new plugs in? Do you just leave whatever grease is in there and not apply new stuff?

[Sir Trev]

While we're asking about copper grease, is there a technique to applying it to spark plugs? Obviously you don't want a wadge of it falling into the engine over time. Is it just 'a tiny bit'? What happens when you put new plugs in? Do you just leave whatever grease is in there and not apply new stuff?

I've always added nothing more than a light line around the bottom threads. Winding the plug in spreads it out and you don't end up with blobs of it everywhere. Only needs a smidge.

[yorkie_chris]

While we're asking about copper grease, is there a technique to applying it to spark plugs? Obviously you don't want a wadge of it falling into the engine over time. Is it just 'a tiny bit'? What happens when you put new plugs in? Do you just leave whatever grease is in there and not apply new stuff?

I have a toothbrush in the pot of grease and give the threads a wipe with it.

It also kills plaque and removes stains.

[embee]

It's worth getting hold of some aluminium/graphite based anti-seize grease rather than copper. Copper is ideally suited to steel/iron. I know it's being a bit fussy, but alum paste is available so why not? It's ideal for any fastener into aluminium, including spark plugs, brake caliper bolts etc.

Copper is still better than nothing.

I use Loctite 8060 sticks (like glue sticks, very convenient) but it would seem it may have been discontinued, unless anyone knows where to get it still. There are alternative alum/graphite greases on the fleabay.

[Sir Trev]

Last time I took my Curvy to Spannerman's he commented on all the copper grease he found on various bolts as he did the deep dive service it got treated to. He uses some kind of silvery grease (which oddly he referred to as "black sh*t", something to do with the tub it came in) but said I'd done nothing wrong in using copper.

[Winder]

Last time I took my Curvy to Spannerman's he commented on all the copper grease he found on various bolts as he did the deep dive service it got treated to. He uses some kind of silvery grease (which oddly he referred to as "black sh*t", something to do with the tub it came in) but said I'd done nothing wrong in using copper.

This is what made me ask the original question Trev. I recently bought Stenno's 2005 pointy which was always serviced by Spannerman and noticed the silver stuff on all the bolts.

[embee]

... that'll probably be aluminium/graphite grease.

[Dicky Ticker]

Well here we go again-If you are using all the correct torque setting for the nuts and bolts,either from the manual or by design how do you qualify greasing or lubricating then before fitting especially if thread locking is called for when refitting.

Apparently I have been told this is wrong where a torque setting is applicable.
I admit that I clean the bolts with a oily rag,then with a clean rag to clean off any excess before refitting to ensure the smooth running of the thread and normally find this quite adequate

[mikerj]

Well here we go again-If you are using all the correct torque setting for the nuts and bolts,either from the manual or by design how do you qualify greasing or lubricating then before fitting especially if thread locking is called for when refitting.


Experience. How many people have had a fastener fail that was directly attributable to anti-seize compounds? Not me in the last 30 odd years for sure.

[Sir Trev]

Well here we go again-If you are using all the correct torque setting for the nuts and bolts,either from the manual or by design how do you qualify greasing or lubricating then before fitting especially if thread locking is called for when refitting.

I very rarely take something apart that needs thread lock on reassembly, so my comments are mainly based on the rest of the bike. Have encountered several seized fasteners over the decades so if it's practical I will Copperslip a bolt to make it easier next time. Still tighten or torque as required.

[yorkie_chris]

Well here we go again-If you are using all the correct torque setting for the nuts and bolts,either from the manual or by design how do you qualify greasing or lubricating then before fitting especially if thread locking is called for when refitting.

Apparently I have been told this is wrong where a torque setting is applicable.
I admit that I clean the bolts with a oily rag,then with a clean rag to clean off any excess before refitting to ensure the smooth running of the thread and normally find this quite adequate

It is wrong, torques are generally given for dry assembly unless otherwise specified, like cylinder head bolts which say to oil them.

To be fair, the values given probably aren't aimed at being precise guides to tightening things after 20 years, 50 tensioning cycles, a gallon of plusgas and loosening with a 5lb hammer either.


My general practice, if torquing with slippy stuff there, -10% on torque rating.
If using loctite... no adjustment.

[Dicky Ticker]

I can hardly think of any nuts an bolts that would go through that many tightening cycles in a SV650's life time even on a 3000 mile maintenance routine
We have enough trouble on lorry wheel nuts/studs due to stretch considering they are a much higher spec steel and we only keep the trucks for 5 years and they are torqued after each 6 weekly maintenance schedule

[yorkie_chris]

I can hardly think of any nuts an bolts that would go through that many tightening cycles in a SV650's life time even on a 3000 mile maintenance routine
We have enough trouble on lorry wheel nuts/studs due to stretch considering they are a much higher spec steel and we only keep the trucks for 5 years and they are torqued after each 6 weekly maintenance schedule

Don't stretch the analogy too far but here's one example for you.
My bike, 105,000 miles. Chain check every what 1500 miles?* There's 70 on the wheel spindle threads... a part you're unlikely to replace as glibly as a normal nut and bolt and a part that you're more likely to wave a torque wrench at.


The manual is looking at a shiny new bolt from a parts bin going into a freshly tapped and degreased hole.
You are looking at a 15 year old blob of rust and abuse which may or may not have the same thread form and frictional properties.


Much higher spec steel? Than what? What grade and heat treat? What about comparing it like-for-like with the specific bike part you're on about?

Lorry wheel studs are massive, and they don't particularly care about weight. What about the hollow, thin walled aluminium the GSXR front spindles are made of? Which is the high grade part there? ;)


*No chance on mine, it has a scottoiler and a healthy does of ignorance-is-bliss attitude to it's tension.

[embee]

Agree with YC there.

In production environments fasteners are kept dry to avoid contamination, dirt, faulty assembly, possible H&S issues (dermatitis etc), and in vehicles which have to meet evaporative loss hydrocarbon standards you don't want oily things exposed (even mould release agents on tyres is a problem for this). Consistency of build is most important.

The downside is a tendency for corrosion to get in there in service. There are specs of surface treatments which will give high levels of protection, but it all costs.

I once did some tests comparing torque/tension on some particular fasteners we were having issues with using different surface treatments, and YC's guide for oiled and Loctited applications are pretty much right from what I recall.

Production fasteners needing thread-lock usually use patches of micro-encapsulated material, which is dry as supplied and is controllable (common on disc bolts etc).

General purpose fasteners typically are designed for around 80% of yield, so there is a little leeway in practice. Only things like con-rods, main-bearings and cylinder head bolts are designed to work at yield (in order to control clamp loads achieved), and have specific tightening procedures given (electronic yield sensing or torque+angle methods) and limited re-use.

[Dicky Ticker]

Surprised you have to adjust your chain every 1500 miles and regarding all the bumph about specs,treatments and additional materials used-----------FFS its a Suzuki SV 650 built to a budget we are talking about,hardly top range materials used. The materials are so soft they are very easy to strip.Obviously some components are of a higher standard such a spindles but the majority are very low grade

When I put my original post up I was mocked on a previous occassion for using oil to clean threads and WIPE clean but now you are advocating the use of grease ????

I can't work out what you are really saying so could some one please clarify

[yorkie_chris]

Surprised you have to adjust your chain every 1500 miles and regarding all the bumph about specs,treatments and additional materials used-----------FFS its a Suzuki SV 650 built to a budget we are talking about,hardly top range materials used. The materials are so soft they are very easy to strip.Obviously some components are of a higher standard such a spindles but the majority are very low grade

When I put my original post up I was mocked on a previous occassion for using oil to clean threads and WIPE clean but now you are advocating the use of grease ????

I can't work out what you are really saying so could some one please clarify

1500 miles is given as a complete "pluck out of the air" figure to try and add some quantity to what was a completely rough example as to how a fastener in use is different to what is assumed in the manual.


I am not mocking you for using oil on threads, it is better than nothing and perfectly fine for cleaning them.

What I advocate is using logic to determine whether to use an anti-seize/fretting compound on a fastener or whether to use some sort of adhesive.



Do not shout FFS at me, we may be on about a budget bike but engineering decisions are on an entirely level playing field. Stresses and torques do not give a hoot whether these fasteners are cheap, mild steel built for cost or a much smaller higher tensile thread meant to be the same strength but lighter, and hence more expense.


What grade is a lorry wheel nut? What heat treat? Tensile strength? Is there an argument this backs up?

[Dicky Ticker]

Without looking in the manual or the stud I honestly don't know What I do know is that after multiple removal and refits we have had instances of them coming loose even if they have never been over tightened[Always torque check last bit after fitting]

You are a good one to comment on the use of expletives considering the number you have in your posts

The OP is about refitting bolts fittings etc using grease and not regarding quality of fittings. We seem to have a lot of posts about broken studs ,bolt heads snapping and screw fix heads rounding off,surely it is clear that as a budget machine this problem is going to arise once things have been weathered. I am not knocking the SV but it is built to a budget and the fixings do not have the same quality as a Honda for example.

Simple question,----- Yes or No,Do you advocate greasing /lubricating bolts/nuts/studs on the SV when refitting them

[yorkie_chris]

The OP is about refitting bolts fittings etc using grease and not regarding quality of fittings. We seem to have a lot of posts about broken studs ,bolt heads snapping and screw fix heads rounding off,surely it is clear that as a budget machine this problem is going to arise once things have been weathered. I am not knocking the SV but it is built to a budget and the fixings do not have the same quality as a Honda for example.

Simple question,----- Yes or No,Do you advocate greasing /lubricating bolts/nuts/studs on the SV when refitting them

Honda are just as budget as suzuki these days. Ever worked on a hairnet? Bags of Onanism they are.
Most of these issues are corrosion and dare I say it, poor tools. Same on any bike.

That is not a simple question and it's not possible to give a yes or no answer to it. The answer is "it depends on application".

[Mark_h]

I have previously been warned against using copper grease close to things that move. eg, not on wheel bearings or similar in case it gets into the bearing races etc.