BT phone line fault

[dirtydog]

Have got a fault on our bt phone line which has basically knocked out our sky broadband, the phone is also quite noisy i.e lots of static and crackling noise.
BT originally said its a fault in or near the house since then they have apparently tested the line and the problem is in the house (which I'm not entirely convinced by).

BT have been pretty much useless doing things like suggesting we unplug the phone, we were talking to them on the phone at the time :confused:

Phone line comes in at the front of the house and the main socket is in the hall way, this has a sky box and phone plugged into it, next socket isn't used, socket upstairs has sky box and broadband router plugged into, last socket in the house has never been used in the 4 years we've lived here.

So far I've put in new adsl filters,
Tried with the sky boxes unplugged,
Tried with the broadband unplugged,
Took the front cover off the main socket and plugged the phone into the test socket and still no joy.

So can anyone suggest anything I can try?

[Spank86]

Nope, that's the lot. If you've got a problem at that test socket and its not the phone then it's an Openreach issue and whoever you pay your line rental to needs to get an engineer arranged.

[dirtydog]

Line rental is BT and they're being fairly useless about it all

[andrewsmith]

The broadband should be in the master socket for the property (BT's words), try doing that and see what happens.
BTW the line test stuff over the phone is not the best if your on the BT network (goes: Provider, Openreach sever, area exchange, local, street), and you have to go through your provider which if its sky is about an hour on the phone

You've been told a load of ****e DD the line test has to be done from the master plug in the property to the local DP (you can't miss them green boxes on street corners). I have enough experience with BT and the other providers to know how the phone network runs.

[dirtydog]

The broadband should be in the master socket for the property (BT's words), try doing that and see what happens.
BTW the line test stuff over the phone is not the best if your on the BT network (goes: Provider, Openreach sever, area exchange, local, street), and you have to go through your provider which if its sky is about an hour on the phone

You've been told a load of ****e DD the line test has to be done from the master plug in the property to the local DP (you can't miss them green boxes on street corners). I have enough experience with BT and the other providers to know how the phone network runs.


If I plug the broadband into the master socket the signal isn't strong enough to reach the top floor and the broadband was put in at the same time as the sky tv was by the sky engineer.
Line rental is with BT but broadband is sky. When we thought it was just the broadband that was playing up sky were actually pretty helpfull.

[Stuuk1]

They usually are useless when you have a fault. Just grab an engineer when you next see one, they are normally very helpful and for a fiver and a cup of tea will pop round and have a quick look.

[Spank86]

The broadband should be in the master socket for the property (BT's words), try doing that and see what happens.
BTW the line test stuff over the phone is not the best if your on the BT network (goes: Provider, Openreach sever, area exchange, local, street), and you have to go through your provider which if its sky is about an hour on the phone

You've been told a load of ****e DD the line test has to be done from the master plug in the property to the local DP (you can't miss them green boxes on street corners). I have enough experience with BT and the other providers to know how the phone network runs.

Apparently not.


They usually are useless when you have a fault. Just grab an engineer when you next see one, they are normally very helpful and for a fiver and a cup of tea will pop round and have a quick look.

Not now the vans have trackers in.

Phone BT, tell them you've proved the fault with two phones at the test socket of the master socket and you need an engineer.

Say yes to anything they ask you to do and that the problem still exists and that the phones are working fine on other line.

I assume the noise IS still present at the test socket.

[dirtydog]

Yep noise is still present at the test socket. I'm going to pick up a cheapy corded phone tomorrow just to doubly make sure its not our cordless phones

[Stuuk1]

Yep noise is still present at the test socket. I'm going to pick up a cheapy corded phone tomorrow just to doubly make sure its not our cordless phones

I wouldn't other.

When this happens, everyone doubts their own phone. Phones which work for years don't just die and make noise. You pay your line rental for a reason, get them to come out and fix it. Don't waste money buying another phone, perhaps quickly borrow a neighbours?

If you call your line from your mobile it should either be engaged or straight to mailbox.

It will no doubt be an issue with the little box on the outside of your house, don't open it but have a look around it, any water getting in it? Cable to and from it been damaged by an animal? These are the things I'd be checking.

[Stuuk1]

BT's vans have been trackers for years as with all large organisations.

If you happen to see one passing, no harm in asking the question. Trackers don't see lat tyres, so any excuse can be given by the driver if questioned.

[dirtydog]

Well the phones are only about a year old so they should be fine.
We can still use the phone but its really hard to hear the person on the other end

[Spank86]

I wouldn't other.

When this happens, everyone doubts their own phone. Phones which work for years don't just die and make noise. You pay your line rental for a reason, get them to come out and fix it. Don't waste money buying another phone, perhaps quickly borrow a neighbours?.

Nor do lines, nor does anything. There's always a reason, you just can't see it because its covered over.

A corded non power phone is never a bad investment, if only for emergencies incase the power goes out.

If it goes out in a large area even your mobile may not work.

That said the line is more likely to be the issue than the handset with the symptoms described. Especially with broadband issues as well.



BT's vans have been trackers for years as with all large organisations.

If you happen to see one passing, no harm in asking the question. Trackers don't see lat tyres, so any excuse can be given by the driver if questioned.

Two years.

And lots of large organisations don't.

You can ask but I can almost guarantee a no. We've got a job to do and a set time to do it. And excuses don't wash these days.


If you call your line from your mobile it should either be engaged or straight to mailbox.
.

Not with the symptoms described it won't.

If that was the case I could get DD to prove that fault in about 2 minutes.

[dirtydog]

Another question... Do the sky boxes need to be plugged into the adsl filters?

[fizzwheel]

Another question... Do the sky boxes need to be plugged into the adsl filters?

Not 100% sure, but ours is.

In your situation, I'd plug it in, or just disconnect it from the phone line and at least rule that out.

[Stuuk1]

Two years.

And lots of large organisations don't.

You can ask but I can almost guarantee a no. We've got a job to do and a set time to do it. And excuses don't wash these days.

I thought that all of the BT laptops the engineers use were trackered and had been for a long time...

Whenever I go to an exchange there are always banks of laptops plugged in and no engineers to be seen! All plugged in to show where they are and the occupants off doing other stuff.

[Spank86]

Another question... Do the sky boxes need to be plugged into the adsl filters?

Yes and no.

As they come out of the box generally not but within a year... Usually.

[Spank86]

I thought that all of the BT laptops the engineers use were trackered and had been for a long time...

Whenever I go to an exchange there are always banks of laptops plugged in and no engineers to be seen! All plugged in to show where they are and the occupants off doing other stuff.

Nope. None of the laptops are tracked. They're not worth much mind, absolute piles of junk most of them.

They're plugged in and turned on usually because they take so long to start up and have so little battery life. Wouldn't want to leave the laptops in the exchange if they were, time in exchange is monitored.

Only the vans are tracked and we trialled the trackers down here. They're not very good at bridges.

[Stuuk1]

BT have other issues going on at the moment anyway, what with moving most of the planners off from their offices which they have been in for 15-20 years to holes and poles..

[Spank86]

There's a good reason for that.

The planners are mostly useless desk jockeys who have a heart attack if you ask them to do any actual planning.

Openreach has been transforming for about 4 years now and shows no signs of stopping. Some of its even better than the old ways. Wasting too much money, too many legacies of the GPO, even so many years later.

[Stuuk1]

I don't quite agree with that..

The planners are good at what they do, the guys on holes and poles are good at what they do. Getting people who are 50 years old to climb ladders etc is not proactive and is just a tactic to force them in to early retirement which is what they are all currently doing.

The last time BT did a big shakeup like this was when they did away with the clerk of works and make the maintenance staff the new clerk of works. They had absolutely no idea what they were doing and make certain jobs a nightmare!

I deal with the planners and P&I planners every day and its not in a good state at the moment.

[Sid Squid]

BOT

DD, by all means try another phone, but if that doesn't solve anything the noise problem you've described is very commonly caused by cable damage. If possible disconnect cabling from master socket to subsequent sockets, plug phone into master socket and see if the problem goes away, if it does then it'll be a matter of reconnecting and going the second and subsequent sockets and eliminating the various sections of cable. If it doesn't then the fault may be with the cable from the dis board in the street to your master.

[dirtydog]

Thanks for all the replies. Should have some time tomorrow afternoon so will have a look at it then.

[Spank86]

@Stuuk: Some of the planners are good at what they do.

They just take their damn sweet time to do it.

Planning needs sorting, its a nightmare to deal with from the ground, only ones worse are survey officers.

[maviczap]

BOT

DD, by all means try another phone, but if that doesn't solve anything the noise problem you've described is very commonly caused by cable damage. If possible disconnect cabling from master socket to subsequent sockets, plug phone into master socket and see if the problem goes away, if it does then it'll be a matter of reconnecting and going the second and subsequent sockets and eliminating the various sections of cable. If it doesn't then the fault may be with the cable from the dis board in the street to your master.

What SS said.

I had similar problems to you DD, lots of noise on the line, and my broadband kept dropping out.

Eventually I got the BT engineer out, who replaced the cable from the main junction box to the first socket with a new bit of cable

The junction box was for the old style telephone line, and the new socket had a cable from the hall into the living room, where the master socket is now sited.

Cost me £80 to get it fixed mind, as it was an internal fault, not an external fault

[Spank86]

If it is that DD and they try to charge you let me know and I'll tell you what to say in the complaint.

Prior to the master socket is non chargeable wherever the fault is UNLESS you've caused damage to the cable (not normal wear and tear)

[Littlepeahead]

I had a similar problem on my line a few years back and after getting very stroppy with BT it turned out the cable had been chewed. By my own pet rat. Behind the sofa where he had sneaked off. But it is worth making sure that the cable hasn't been damaged by mice as they seem to have an obsession with chewing cables yet somehow avoid live ones that would at least wipe out the cause of the problem.

[saucysaunders]

From experience a few weeks ago with BT when my broadband went down. The best way is to do everything once, and then become slightly yet effectively aggressive.
They first said they were going to send me a new router, which I said wouldn't work, but they insisted I tried it first, when it didn't arrive 5 days later a called up again and was asked to go through the same 20 questions bull**** as before.
I politely to them where to stick their questions and asked to speak to someone who I could understand, as well as understand me. I was then put through to sales, (Of course that would be in the UK...) within 24hrs of speaking to the helpful sales assistant I was back up and running. Silly BT

[dirtydog]

Right tested a corded phone this afternoon and the line was still very noisy, no surprise there.
I took the front cover off to try it in the test socket and still noisy,
Then I took the whole front off to chek for any dodgy wire connections
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x241/dirtydog88/BA28EB70-3EFF-42A0-99CA-E21C4C61D96F-2597-0000034284984DAF_zps2ea70e3e.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x241/dirtydog88/A1CACC07-7F43-4CB6-8E3A-BDEA962A78A9-2597-000003428BFA5918_zpsbc9919cd.jpg

Nothing obviously amiss in there that I could see.

So put it all back together plugged the phone back in and still noisy. 10 minutes later the phone rang twice and then stopped, when we went to check what number called us there was no dialling tone.
So decided to take the cover off outside to check the connections
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x241/dirtydog88/BB382985-90B1-4439-948E-3E8325DF0F55-2597-00000342980A4809_zps0e19ffef.jpg

Do the connections look to be correct?

So as it stands we have no dialling tone now.

Could I connect the master socket to the wires outside just as a test to rule out the wire coming into the house being faulty?

[Spank86]

Apart from the blurry ness those crimps look fine(ish) to me. Unless there's any verdigris I'm not seeing.

The master socket on the other hand is NOT wired correctly.

Only set of wires should be on the screw terminals, the other set likely goes to your extensions and should be on or 2 and 5 of the front plate.

Not really your fault but could cause you to be charged if the fault is on the line Going on,

And yes you could test like that, assuming you're happy reconnecting the wires. If you do it with tape I'll give you some proper crimps next time I see you.

[dirtydog]

Sorry for the blurry picture there, dinner was ready so I was rushing!

The crimp on the blue with white trace wire does look a little green inside

[Bibio]

biggest problem and one that BT wont check is the box on the pole. due to high winds and crappy weather these boxes are getting a hammering and wires come loose, get furred up or work harden then eventually snap.

[Spank86]

If it is there it'll either be in the crimp or where the previous engineer has stupidly twisted them together.

Old school but silly, it just weakens them.

[Spank86]

biggest problem and one that BT wont check is the box on the pole. due to high winds and crappy weather these boxes are getting a hammering and wires come loose, get furred up or work harden then eventually snap.

That's a 101 bib, he's fed Underground, no pole.

But yes the poles are a wearing in the network but its easier to know it than to design a fix.

[Stuuk1]

There isn't really much of an answer for the guy here... Lol

Are the crimps sealed of could some wd40 be sprayed in them? I suppose if you do that then BT could say you have tampered with them..?

[Spank86]

There's gel in them, wd40 probably wouldn't dislodge it.

There's quite a few answers but none of them can be definite, there's places the fault is more likely and places its less but overall there's likely more than a thousand different joints between him and the exchange.

At the end of the day if he disconnects the extension cable from the master socket and leaves just the incoming line then its proved onto The Openreach network and charges wouldn't apply.

[dirtydog]

Big thanks to Mark_h for taking the time to pop round tonight and have a look and sort the problem out for me, which turned out to be just a broken wire.

[Spank86]

It always is, one way or another.

[Mark_h]

Underground cable internal break within the insulation about 3 inches away from the crimp. Luckily just enough slack to recrimp. Also rewired the internal master in a more legit manner.