RIP Maggie Thatcher

[Spank86]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/indepth/margaret_thatcher/herlifeandtimes/10342224.Outrage_and_fury_as_Thatcher_calls_strike rs_the_enemy_within/

The report also warned that if the Government continued on its present course, 70 pits would close before 1990 – a figure often predicted by Arthur Scargill – and not the stated 20.

On this list, at number 20, was the tiny Durham pit at Sacriston, which employed only 229 men and was making losses of £25 per ton.

At number 31 was Horden Colliery, near Peterlee; at number 36 was Bates pit, Northumberland; at number 41 was Herrington, near Sunderland; at number 43 was Ashington, Northumberland; at number 51 was Hawthorn, near Murton; and at the cut-off point of number 70, tragically positioned for doom with losses of £6 per ton, was the massive Easington pit and its 2,552 workforce.

[maviczap]

All 70 of them? The miners did.
There you go then. Unless your suggesting that the Russian coal wouldn't have been cheap without the pit closures?

No, the UK power industry still required the coal, but with its British supply cut off, where else was it going to get its coal from?

The lights would have gone off without the import of coal

[Spank86]

No, the UK power industry still required the coal, but with its British supply cut off, where else was it going to get its coal from?

The lights would have gone off without the import of coal

But with the deregulation of the power industry they would have been free to buy foreign coal anyway as oppose to sticking with expensive British coal.

Also if you remember the lights went off a few times WITH British coal, or a lack of it.

[maviczap]

But with the deregulation of the power industry they would have been free to buy foreign coal anyway as oppose to sticking with expensive British coal.

Also if you remember the lights went off a few times WITH British coal, or a lack of it.

Yes, and look at the price of electricity & gas now, thanks to de - regulation, plus the number owned by foreign companies. That was such a great idea.

Yes, I remember the lights going off, I don't have any problem with sorting out the Unions responsible for that. But it didn't cause mass unemployment.

[Spank86]

Yes the price has gone up.

Prices do that and it would have gone up anyway. Probably a lot more with the unions we had.

And it's oh so easy to say the unions should have been broken some other way, I note a complete lack of information as to HOW and nobody in the 70s seemed to have much idea either.

Government run industry on that level is A bad idea. Workers cooperatives would have worked if you want communism/socialism, but not government run that's the worst of both worlds.

[Bibio]

the pits were shut down because its a fuel source of the future. better depleting someone else's before our own. there are other ways to extract the energy from coal rather than burn the stuff but the technology is not ready yet.

most of the greedy population think of the now rather than the future. is it a wonder that this country is in so much of a mess when we have a population of 'want it now' people who cant afford what they have and are up to their eyeballs in debt just so they can keep up with the next door neighbour.

[chris8886]

the pits were shut down because its a fuel source of the future. better depleting someone else's before our own. there are other ways to extract the energy from coal rather than burn the stuff but the technology is not ready yet.

most of the greedy population think of the now rather than the future. is it a wonder that this country is in so much of a mess when we have a population of 'want it now' people who cant afford what they have and are up to their eyeballs in debt just so they can keep up with the next door neighbour.

what sorta ways? sounds very intriguing does that, or do you not know specifically lance?

couldn't agree more with your second point there and i think we pretty much are all to blame for it too (as in human beings). i can think of a couple of occasions when i would have to shamefully raise my hand and admit i was guilty to that type of behaviour in some form or another. :(

[Bibio]

i read an article ages ago that coal can be used to power fuel cells but i seem to recall that it required extreme heat.

i think i happen to be one of the very very few who has the attitude of 'if i cant buy it with the money i have i cant have it'. i owe no one nothing and i save/d for what i want/have. the only thing i have taken out on credit in the past 25 years was my last bike, then it got stolen and they would not give me more credit due to all the greedy people causing a credit meltdown even though i never missed a payment. so i saved and got the one i have now.

[Lozzo]

Before anyone puts finger to keyboard in slating Baroness Thatcher's policies and actions, they might take time to read the Conservative Party election manifesto of 1979, where she quite clearly states exactly what she was going to do in order to put this country back on track;

Trade Union Reform - things like taking power away from the unions and putting it back into the hands of responsible management.

Nationalisation - Selling shipbuilding and aerospace industries amongst others back into private ownership.

The sale of council houses - self explanatory.

Margaret Thatcher told everyone exactly what she was going to do, and still she was voted in with a sizeable majority.

The Conservatives won that election with 43.9% of the vote winning 339 seats in parliament. Throughout that Conservative term of office Labour only managed to gain two additional seats over their 1979 tally during general elections, until the dramatic turn of events at the 1997 election. During the 1983 election at the end of the first Conservative term, Labour lost 40 seats over their 1979 total, such was their unpopularity and such was the brilliant job Margaret Thatcher was doing at sorting things out. At the time of the 1979 election, inflation was at a modern day high of 27%; but it had fallen to 4% by the start of 1983. You can't argue with that sort of result, she got things done and she put a few noses out of joint to do it.

We, the people, gave Margaret Thatcher the political mandate to lead this country and to save it from going down the tubes - a job she did extremely well. As with any drastic change in social attitudes and economic belt tightening there will be casualties, but they were far fewer than we would have had, had we been stuck with another socialist government throwing money to the unions to squander on themselves. Our country was on its ar5e in 1979 following years of mismanagement by a union controlled government and she kicked a few ar5es to get it back on the world stage again. Had Labour won that 1979 election, this country would most likely have been bankrupted and I doubt we'd have ever recovered.

[Specialone]

Personally I can't see what getting credit has to do with anything :confused:

I've always and still do use credit even if I have the funds, I look at how much it will cost me so if I can afford it I buy it, if I had to wait 3 years to buy something I could die or become disabled beforehand and miss out on the time I could've had.

I'm a live for today kind of person, seen too many people saving to retirement and being careful with money only to die without ever enjoying it.

Credit is a tool, I will use it if I need to, but people shouldn't knock it if they don't use it, that's your choice, there's nowt wrong with either choice.

Finally, on your death bed, the last thing you'll think about is money, it will be just paper, don't amass a pile of paper that's worthless to you, enjoy your life (within reason) before its too late.

[Bri w]

Before anyone puts finger to keyboard in slating Baroness Thatcher's policies and actions, they might take time to read the Conservative Party election manifesto of 1979, where she quite clearly states exactly what she was going to do in order to put this country back on track;

Trade Union Reform - things like taking power away from the unions and putting it back into the hands of responsible management.

Nationalisation - Selling shipbuilding and aerospace industries amongst others back into private ownership.

The sale of council houses - self explanatory.

Margaret Thatcher told everyone exactly what she was going to do, and still she was voted in with a sizeable majority.

The Conservatives won that election with 43.9% of the vote winning 339 seats in parliament. Throughout that Conservative term of office Labour only managed to gain two additional seats over their 1979 tally during general elections, until the dramatic turn of events at the 1997 election. During the 1983 election at the end of the first Conservative term, Labour lost 40 seats over their 1979 total, such was their unpopularity and such was the brilliant job Margaret Thatcher was doing at sorting things out. At the time of the 1979 election, inflation was at a modern day high of 27%; but it had fallen to 4% by the start of 1983. You can't argue with that sort of result, she got things done and she put a few noses out of joint to do it.

We, the people, gave Margaret Thatcher the political mandate to lead this country and to save it from going down the tubes - a job she did extremely well. As with any drastic change in social attitudes and economic belt tightening there will be casualties, but they were far fewer than we would have had, had we been stuck with another socialist government throwing money to the unions to squander on themselves. Our country was on its ar5e in 1979 following years of mismanagement by a union controlled government and she kicked a few ar5es to get it back on the world stage again. Had Labour won that 1979 election, this country would most likely have been bankrupted and I doubt we'd have ever recovered.

Absolutely spot on!

And further to that the Govt she led did more to raise the wealth of the man in the street than any govt EVER.

The Utilities were privatised but the shares were sold at a discount to the public. The workers of those industries were GIVEN shares, and could buy the shares at a discount.

The loosening of the regulations on banks and building societies saw shares being sold at a discount to account holders.

The sale of council houses to tenants at a discount based on their time as a tenant.

Those of us who had mortgages in the mid/late 70's, and suffered interest rate hikes and inflation, whilst watching the Unions rip the heart out of our manufacturing base were more than happy to vote Conservative. And having voted Conservative we soon enjoyed a far better living standard.

The Poll tax(Community Charge) was fair in concept but badly handled. Why should the old couple pay the same as the family of 4 or 5 next door. I'd happily see it return, albeit with a more balanced approach.

The Labour Govt, in Blair's early years, was pale blue in colour, and was also one of the better govts this country has had. Sadly, like many Labour govts in the past the ideology of the give what the workers earn to the shirkers saw one of the wealthiest countries in the world hamstrung by a social bill totally out of kilter with what was affordable.

Oh for another Maggie.

[Spank86]

.

i think i happen to be one of the very very few who has the attitude of 'if i cant buy it with the money i have i cant have it'. i owe no one nothing and i save/d for what i want/have. the only thing i have taken out on credit in the past 25 years was my last bike, then it got stolen and they would not give me more credit due to all the greedy people causing a credit meltdown even though i never missed a payment. so i saved and got the one i have now.

The only Loan I've ever had is my mortgage.

[Spank86]

The Poll tax(Community Charge) was fair in concept but badly handled. Why should the old couple pay the same as the family of 4 or 5 next door. I'd happily see it return, albeit with a more balanced approach..

That's more or less what council tax is, although there are problems with that system too.

[NTECUK]

Nostalga an't what it used to be ;)

[Jabba]

I think Lozzo's point is well-made. I've always had the view that Mrs T's Govt did what they said they would. She was honest enough to tell us when we would find it hard (and there were hard times). We knew where we stood and what we were voting for. That is what democracy should be.

I think, too, that those who are "celebrating" her passing need to remember that her Govts had a mandate to do what they did by winning three general elections (and one for John Major afterwards).

There have been letters in the local paper here (The SW Echo) complaining that disabled people exercising their right to protest about changes to the welfare system have the message that they wanted to convey through their lawful and legitimate rallies and marches lost in a sea of noise from militant left-wing groups who come out of the woodwork during times of Conservative Governments and try to hi-jack every event. The wider public seem to lose sympathy for the cause when this happens. There are few (if any) similar groups from the other side of the political spectrum when Labour Govts are in power. Conservative voters seem to accept the result of an election and wait until the next one.

My point is that if we, as an electorate, held govts of any colour/persuasion to account based upon their manifesto (allowing for unforeseen occurrences like wars and natural disasters) the democratic process would be more credible. Young people might take an interest and vote. The media would, in order to have any credibility themselves, report things as they are rather than try to make/shape events. Thank goodness for the BBC (generally!).

If nothing else, I wish we had more governments like Mrs Thatcher's, where those in power were open about their intentions and did what they had a mandate to do.

[ClunkintheUK]

+1 Jabba,

I was born in '83, so have no first hand recollection of Maggie's time in power. However as Lozzo mentioned she was elected then re-elected twice, on a massive majority. Put the 43% in perspective, Tony Blair won his first landslide election with 39% and his last election on 32%, IIRC.

As this thread shows with MT people are arguing over her politics, where she did what she said she would do. In every Gov't since then, red, blue and yellow, the majority of my recollections are personal smears: Cash for Questions, Tory Sleaze, Cash for Honours, Expenses, David Laws being outed, Peter Mandleson and the spin doctors.

The two political stories I remember from '90 onwards are Lib Dems backing down on tuition fees, against their manifesto and selling the gold reserves at $290 an ounce (currently $1560) against all economic advise (by the political and economic 'Heavyweight' Gordon Brown). Ok the war in Iraq, but I would argue that debarcle as being personal sleaze, given that Blair is now a middle east advisor for huge sums of money.

There is no debate in the Commons any more. And I cannot remember any politician following through on their conviction, if we have even known what that conviction is.

And I agree with Bibio, why use your own coal reserves, when you can cheaply use someone else's? Thats exactly what the US is doing with their oil reserves.

MT was our last living politian, and Mo Mowlem was our last great politician in power.

[timwilky]

Most of my income from the past 30 years ulimately comes from the need for power stations. The last coal ones I have been involved with have been in China, Taiwan, Malaysia and Indonesia. In the UK I have been forced down the dash for gas route.

European rules are trying to make coal burning a thing of the past. Many small local coal burners have gone and now the writing on the wall is there for the bigger ones. Didcot A in the last few weeks etc.

However, it is nice to see there may be a bit of a resurgence. look at the White Rose carbon capture and storage project being proposed at Drax (http://www.whiteroseccs.co.uk/about-white-rose)

[ChrisCurvyS]

Personally I can't see what getting credit has to do with anything :confused:

I've always and still do use credit even if I have the funds, I look at how much it will cost me so if I can afford it I buy it, if I had to wait 3 years to buy something I could die or become disabled beforehand and miss out on the time I could've had.

I'm a live for today kind of person, seen too many people saving to retirement and being careful with money only to die without ever enjoying it.

Credit is a tool, I will use it if I need to, but people shouldn't knock it if they don't use it, that's your choice, there's nowt wrong with either choice.

Finally, on your death bed, the last thing you'll think about is money, it will be just paper, don't amass a pile of paper that's worthless to you, enjoy your life (within reason) before its too late.
Exactly - there's nothing immoral about getting credit from private lenders.

They factor in the risk of you not repaying in their interest rates. And if those rates aren't high enough to covers their losses from defaults, that's their problem.

It's a deal between the borrower and the lender and really isn't anyone else's business, so long as taxpayer's money isn't involved.

[Fordward]

the basics of it was the country was split in two

just under half voted tory, a quarter labour, a quarter liberal, the rest for the rest

so there was always going to be half the country that didn't want Thatcher and don't like the massive changes that she made

PM is not the job of pleasing people, you don't let the kiddies run the kindergarten, its the job of fixing the stuff you've promised to fix and running the kindergarten in the way that you think is best for the majority of the kiddies, on behalf of the kiddies who voted for you, if you do a crap job of it after 4 years you get voted out again

there still seems to be quite a significant element in the country that are still bitter about being in the half that lost in 1983

i just hope there is good security at her funeral and it isn't allowed to be turned into a disgrace by those bitter people, or indeed just young troublemakers who weren't even alive at the time

[Owenski]

I don't think Lance was saying if you borrow money you're the devil.
Just highlighting an issue referring to those who borrow money they cant afford to repay, those who rack up silly debts on credit cards only to have the gov write it off on that 75% do'hicky because they feel its somehow their right to own a smart Tv.
IMHO Credit cards/Store Credit and other such schemes should be dissolved. Motorfinance and mortgages due to the size (high price) of the purchase is fair enough but borrowing £500 to buy a TV is fairly pathetic, especially when you consider the interest on repayments.

Coincidentally I do have a credit card, I use it to buy food and petrol and its paid off in full each month. The sole reason I have it is to ensure I keep a good credit rating which was handy for giving me the best rate for our mortgage. The credit card company try to push the limit up all the time so frequently get calls from me to put it back down, I don't need the higher value nor the higher borrowing rates which come with it.

[Fordward]

we already have a nanny state that tells us what we can and cant do

lets not suggest scrapping credit cards because some people are not responsible enough to manage their finances

i bought £600 of floor tiles on a credit card before xmas and i'll have paid it off this month, why is putting small amounts on a credit card pathetic?

[Spank86]

Any state and any society tells you what you can and can't do.

Nannying has nothing to do with it.

Credit cards don't need to be scrapped they just need to have their regulations tightened.

[Fordward]

i think the uk is one of the most nannying states in the world, but thats just my humble opinion

[Griff-SV]

Credit limits need to be capped for those who have no hope in paying it back in a realistic amount of time.

[Owenski]

lets not suggest scrapping credit cards because some people are not responsible enough to manage their finances


Credit cards don't need to be scrapped they just need to have their regulations tightened.

Yeah ok thats fair enough. Scrapping them is a petulant suggestion, I just see these credit adverts and cringe at the people using those "services". Hate them to my core.

[timwilky]

I love my credit cards 0% whoring me. I want to spend money I don't have. It won't cost me!

I do cringe at some of the adverts with 3000% and think who is going to be daft enough. but the old adage a fool and his money

[Fordward]

I do cringe at some of the adverts with 3000% and think who is going to be daft enough. but the old adage a fool and his money

basically legalised loan sharking that preys on the desperate, wouldn't have a problem with scrapping those

[punyXpress]

However, it is nice to see there may be a bit of a resurgence. look at the White Rose carbon capture and storage project being proposed at Drax (http://www.whiteroseccs.co.uk/about-white-rose)

Weren't there multi-million euro grants available from the EC for projects such as this?
. . and those supposedly making the applications for them could NOT BE BOTHERED?

[yorkie_chris]

basically legalised loan sharking that preys on the desperate, wouldn't have a problem with scrapping those

Apparently they're going to be cracking down on the payday loans thing soon.

[ClunkintheUK]

Apparently they're going to be cracking down on the payday loans thing soon.

I hope so. I had some small dealing with them when i was a credit analyst, they seem to think that they are providing some glorious service to the honest working class man. Yeah right, that's why they charge 40% for a week's loan, with full security on an already earned paycheck is it?

[Fordward]

Mr Wronga dot com

[Milky Bar Kid]

You know something. I haven't logged in here for months and the first thread I read when I log in is this. Disappointed in some members. To celebrate the death of another is disgraceful.

By all means, don't mourn for her if you didn't like her. But don't celebrate.

[Owenski]

You know something. I haven't logged in here for months and the first thread I read when I log in is this. Disappointed in some members. To celebrate the death of another is disgraceful.

By all means, don't mourn for her if you didn't like her. But don't celebrate.
welcome back stranger

[ChrisCurvyS]

Almost everything in the news since Maggie's death has been entirely predictable - apart from this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307705/Scotland-Yard-sergeant-Jeremy-Scott-resigns-Margaret-Thatcher-degrading-painful-death-tweets.html

Amazed that a serving police sergeant was also openly an anti-Thatcher, left-wing agitator! Not saying I agree or disagree with his politics - just really surprised that he reconciled them with his job.

He even applauded the celebratory riot in Bristol - where people were attacking the police...

[Biker Biggles]

Almost everything in the news since Maggie's death has been entirely predictable - apart from this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307705/Scotland-Yard-sergeant-Jeremy-Scott-resigns-Margaret-Thatcher-degrading-painful-death-tweets.html

Amazed that a serving police sergeant was also openly an anti-Thatcher, left-wing agitator! Not saying I agree or disagree with his politics - just really surprised that he reconciled them with his job.

He even applauded the celebratory riot in Bristol - where people were attacking the police...

A bit of a keyboard warrior perhaps,but did he publish anything illegal?(Ive not read it)
If not I dont really see what business it is of his employer.Its a bit of a slippery slope when your boss governs your opinions expressed out of hours IMHO.

[Spank86]

A bit of a keyboard warrior perhaps,but did he publish anything illegal?(Ive not read it).
He said he wished the home secretary were dead.

Would you expect to get away with messaging the absolute head of whatever company you work for (assuming you do) and saying you wish they'd follow Maggie thatcher into the ground?

[ChrisCurvyS]

I can see the freedom of speech argument from both sides. Either way, he should have known he was playing with fire - all it took was for someone to tip off the Mail about his blog and Twitter account and there was going to be serious trouble.

More just taken aback by the crusty-but-copper thing - never come across that before.

[Bluepete]

And that sergeant has now resigned.

Every Police Force, sorry, Police SERVICE has a social media policy. He didn't adhere to it. He probably left before being pushed to protect his pension.

Pete

[ChrisCurvyS]

And that sergeant has now resigned.

Every Police Force, sorry, Police SERVICE has a social media policy. He didn't adhere to it. He probably left before being pushed to protect his pension.

Pete
I wondered why he went so suddenly and without a fight.

Amazing how it doesn't register with some folk that they're putting stuff out there for the whole world to see.

Like the teacher who put stuff on her Twitter feed describing herself as 'a total *****' and giving her husband blow jobs in the shower, despite having pupils following her. She was outraged when the local paper picked up on it!

[maviczap]

I wondered why he went so suddenly and without a fight.

Amazing how it doesn't register with some folk that they're putting stuff out there for the whole world to see.

Like the teacher who put stuff on her Twitter feed describing herself as 'a total *****' and giving her husband blow jobs in the shower, despite having pupils following her. She was outraged when the local paper picked up on it!

Yes, I can't believe how daft supposedly intelligent people are when it come to posting stuff.

I guess the Sgt can't have been far off retirement age.

[Fordward]

often when people start putting stuff out there like that they've already decided they don't want to do the job anymore

it can actually be a way of forcing the issue becaue they haven't the courage to hand in the notice letter

get myself sacked then i don't have to pluck up the courage to leave

[punyXpress]

I wondered why he went so suddenly and without a fight.


Wonder if that's how he kept his pension?

[gruntygiggles]

You know something. I haven't logged in here for months and the first thread I read when I log in is this. Disappointed in some members. To celebrate the death of another is disgraceful.

By all means, don't mourn for her if you didn't like her. But don't celebrate.

Me too chick and I am also disappointed.

It says more about the person doing the celebrating/rejoicing in the death of another than it will ever say about Baroness Thatcher.

I loved my grampy to absolute pieces, but I verbally floored him once, when I was about 10 I think. He was massively anti - Thatcher and she was on the News for something or other. My grampy shouted at the telly that he wished she'd just fall in front of a speeding bus. I got really upset. He didn't understand why I was crying and I said something like, "Because I always thought you were a really nice person Grampy, but how can you be nice and wish someone dead".

I have no recollection of how he handled it, but my dad tells me to this day that grampy was never so mean about her again.

We can get so caught up in our own minds about things that we can easily forget that we are talking about a life that has been lost.

RIP Baroness Thatcher. For what it's worth, while I think some of your mandates were, shall we say questionable, you told us what they were, stuck to your guns and had the courage of your convictions.

I would vote tomorrow for a leader that had even a pin ***** of her commitment to this country and making it better.

[Biker Biggles]

Its only a very few who have posted anything objectionable about MT.The rest is pretty much legitimate opinion about a very contraversial historical figure.IMO.I think the thread is very civilised in the circumstances,but thats the ORG for you.Huge differences of opinion but I reckon I could have a beer with anyone Ive argued with here.
(Even thet awkward s0d Pedrosa)

[Spank86]

The thing that gets me is that she hasn't been in power or a significant personal influence in politics for over 20 years.

For all that time she's just been an old lady. What does her death change that's so worthy of celebrating, I could almost understand it if it were half way through the 80s but not now.

[Stuuk1]

What annoys me the most are the young people celebrating etc. All they know is hearsay.

[punyXpress]

What annoys me the most are the young people celebrating etc. All they know is hearsay.

. . absorbed from birth in their mothers' milk?

[Stuuk1]

Evidently so!

[The Idle Biker]

Am I the only one that fancied her?

[Spank86]

You and Dennis.

[The Idle Biker]

I would have for sure. It wouldn't have been a sensitive affair. I would like to think it would have been hot, rough and passionate, bordering on violent. Think I would have lost though. Still good fun dying while trying though.

[Bluepete]

Am I the only one that fancied her?

That's like mass murder in a multi storey car park.

Wrong on so many levels!

Pete ;)

[Bri w]

Am I the only one that fancied her?

Mmm, and your location is Vatican City...:smt120

[cb1000rsteve]

Maggie thatchers dead?? That Argentinian pope didn't take long for his first miracle

[punyXpress]

Am I the only one that fancied her?

Probably - it's quite a laugh being a male praying mantis.

[Bibio]

for the record. i have nothing against the tories in fact i like them and i have always had the view of 'let people who are used to money look after it' and 'nothing worse than a poor man got rich'. anyway back to Mrs Thatcher, its the Thatcher family i dislike and if you want to know why then just do a bit off digging around, they are not nice people. MT was just the head and voice of the party, she did not do the decision making and it took the whole party to do what they done.

i think the tories done a lot of good back then but at the same time paved the way for what is happening to the UK now. they sold the family silver for a quick buck, but we are still giving handouts to these private companies. why is what i want to know, we supposedly got rid of BT etc etc to save the country money but every single one of the main ones showed a profit within the following year and continue to do so but still expect the British public to help out with 'upgrades'.

history for the young uns. Labour gets into power and spends, the Conservatives get in then get us back on our feet, then Labour gets in and spends, so on and so on and will keep going around in this circle. by the time the Conservatives get the UK back on it's feet the people are sick and tired of the cut backs and want the good times of Labour again and like lambs to the slaughter the public vote with their purses instead of letting the tories get on with it, after all what happens what everything is paid back and there are no more cuts to be made. well you then have a government in power that can look after money and spend it where it matters.

[Spank86]

BT is currently spending millions on upgrades in one of the biggest engineering projects in europe but its not going to spend money in areas that will NEVER pay it back. No private company would. The choices for that are public funding or it not happening.



history for the young uns. Labour gets into power and spends, the Conservatives get in then get us back on our feet, then Labour gets in and spends, so on and so on and will keep going around in this circle. by the time the Conservatives get the UK back on it's feet the people are sick and tired of the cut backs and want the good times of Labour again and like lambs to the slaughter the public vote with their purses instead of letting the tories get on with it, after all what happens what everything is paid back and there are no more cuts to be made. well you then have a government in power that can look after money and spend it where it matters.

Public spending rose in every year but one of thatchers government.
The real problem is not what they do its WHEN they do it. An ideal world would have conservatives cutting back in the boom times and labour spending lavishly in the bust, we however usually vote them in the other way round which is worse for everyone.

[NTECUK]

The Poll tax(Community Charge) was fair in concept but badly handled. Why should the old couple pay the same as the family of 4 or 5 next door. I'd happily see it return,
Yep +1 for that idea we dont make as much rubbish as the 3 kid family up the road with a small house .
so why am i paying more??

[Spank86]

Because the bin lorry still has to turn up the same number of times for both of you?

[Fordward]

the more you earn the more you pay in income tax

the bigger your house the more you pay in council tax

its a tax contribution to society, not a payment for services based upon your own consumption like your phone bill

[NTECUK]

Because the bin lorry still has to turn up the same number of times for both of you?
So why as they fill it up more they pay less.
I only fill it half full so the lorry can miss every other weeek.

Half price bin rounds.
Saved money already.

[Spank86]

Our lorry DOES miss every other week.

Not sure you'd like the smell though if it missed more.