Nuts And Bolts - what to use?

[squirrel_hunter]

Working on my TZR has got me thinking about nuts and bolts...

The first thing I'm thinking of is rust and generally rubbish looking fasteners. While they are perfectly usable and serviceable when put next to a freshly powdercoated mount they really look out of place. So I'm thinking of replacing them with new stuff, but then what new type of fastener do I need? Stainless Steel?

Trouble is I wonder about suitability and strength. While the bolt that holds the coolant tank on for example doesn't need to be the strongest metal known to man, the bolts that attach the shock absorber to the frame might well need to have some strength rating. So with that in mind should I be using different bolts for structural applications and others for non structural?

And finally, why so many different bolt types? Some with allen head others standard 10mm or 12mm hex and even the occasional screw. I would have thought that Yamaha or any other bike manufacturer put a little thought into the selection of the bolt type so should I change them all for one type or try to find exact matches of all different types?

I never knew bolts could be that complicated, what do you all advise?

[wideguy]

Yes, very much so. There is a very wide range of strength and wear resistance in hardware, as well as corriosion resistance and even temperature ratings.
Everything important to the safe operation of the machine should be replaced with an equivalent, or better fastener.
Head types are sometimes important and sometimes not. As far as the style, designers just like to create new methods of driving bolts and screws so we have to buy even more tools, but, there are also heads (and nuts) that are designed for tension applications, and some for shear. Tension fasteners can replace shear fasteners, but shear cannot replace tension.

[Runako]

Ha! I took it upon myself to investigate and even started a thread with all different bolt sizes and types for the SV!

Unfortunately for me, I now know more about bolts than I care to admit.

Cap Head bolts and other socket bolts - only real difference between them is the shoulder above the shaft. They're all sockets but the cap head allows better purchase as the head is deeper and the shoulder takes the load better. Hex bolts obviously have more points of contact.

Actually, I'll just post this link as the documents explain all you need to know about bolts - http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Printable-Tools/Type-Chart.pdf

http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Printable-Tools/Fastener-Basics.pdf

Also, I have info on bolt tensility somewhere and located suppliers of high tensile bolts matching the type for various parts of the bike, such as caliper bolts. They are more expensive obviously but highly rust resistant and strong as hell (A4 marine grade).

There is a trade off between tensility and brittleness. So high tensile is stronger but will break rather than deform. So lower tensile steel is actually more useful for certain parts of the bike. You have to also consider that using high tensile materials in softer threads like Alu may kill the threads because of the bolt threads strength, so again a for ductile bolt is better.

There are also issues with torque load to be considered. Changing the grade of fastner used may affect the torque setting for that application. Using loctite and the same torque as recommended and you could damage bolt or thread.

The material types - Steel, SS, Copper, Titanium, Zinc coated etc - are trade-offs in weight, ductility and rust inhibition. Marine Grade A4 Stainless Steel for example is highly rust resistant because it has a higher level of Chromium, is stronger than A2 and can be used in the same applications, but is more brittle.

The engineers of the site will know far more.

Whew!

[Owenski]

I replaced as many bolts as possible with allen headed stainless bolts on the builds i've just completed.
A little copper slip on the thread (or thread lock if required).
You can buy generic 500 bolt bundles from ebay for very very cheap, then just buy yourself a pro-bolt fairing kit for the stuff you'll actually see. That's what I did so hence would recommended.

[yorkie_chris]

Black stainless looks nice if you can get it :)

[Runako]

Black stainless looks nice if you can get it :)

You can. I have. Not cheap.

[andrewsmith]

Black stainless looks nice if you can get it :)

I'm sure I've got some 8.8 black steel M10's off a job they certainly ain't.
I've found these who do mail order and do a cracking range of stainless fastners
http://www.ukstainless.co.uk/

One thing to say, is be carful with Titanium as they shear in load situations (i.e: caliper mounts).

A2 Stainless seems to be the best balacne between standard and A4 marine

[veenee]

you could also check out this website:

http://www.pro-bolt.com/

where you can search for bolts & nuts by bike

[Runako]

you could also check out this website:

http://www.pro-bolt.com/

where you can search for bolts & nuts by bike

Yes but probolt doesn't always provide the sizes (and pitch) for its nuts and bolts if they're in a kit. Also no info on tensility.

[andrewsmith]

you could also check out this website:

http://www.pro-bolt.com/

where you can search for bolts & nuts by bike

Anodised and over priced. Used them once for a set of sprocket carrier nuts (same price for Titanium as OEM cheesesteel)

The only thing pro bolt is good for (if you can get one) is the guage tool

[yorkie_chris]

Gauge tool?

[andrewsmith]

Gauge tool?

http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/images/PROGAUGE.jpg

[Bibio]

knock yerself out, http://www.aruncas.com/acatalog/index.html

things like shocky bolts and weird bike specific stuff i always stick to OEM.

[squirrel_hunter]

Thanks for the responses. There is a lot to learn about bolts and there looks like there is going to be no easy answer. I think what I will do is stick to reusing the OEM structural bolts as I think replacing some of them might be tricky such as the linkage bolts ensuring they are of the same standard and design. But for the non-structural items like fairing brackets and coolant tanks etc I might replace the old worn looking bolts with something nicer.

Looks like my local bolt supplier is going to get a visit soon...

[GagginForraPint]

As one of the engineers, I can't believe how much people charge for machine screws!
They'll all made to one standard or another, it's a case of finding out which standard and off you go.
A4 Stainless for the low load joints, they will never rust. May be some issues with the aluminium corroding due to the difference of materials

A few places to try, not bike related:-
Carona Reuter Industrial Ltd (don't do one offs)
http://www.carona-reuter.com/fasteners.php
Ondrives
http://www.ondrives.com/
Misumi, sell single screws and boxes of
http://www.misumi-europe.com

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/images/PROGAUGE.jpg

Bless. A set of verniers are about a fiver.

[Lawman]

Why not get the original bolts replated? that way they will look good and all be right for the job.

I put some rusty bolts in warm citric acid for a few hours to remove the rust then took them to a plater, he did them on the side for a tenner! They looked good afterwards, also did axles etc while I was at it.

Stainless bolts are great but can work out bloody expensive.

[Lawman]

eg this http://www.classickawasaki.com/images/platin1.jpg

to this http://www.classickawasaki.com/images/platin2.jpg