Loomies is for sale!!

[Matt-EUC]

http://www.business4sale.co.uk/Listings/48325/Ex-Little-Chef-For-Sale-On-Busy-A32-A27-Junction-In-Hampshire

It would be beyond awesome if we could have an Org cafe. Please one of you buy it.

I already went to the bank and got turned down. Apparently, they won't give someone my age that amount of money. *******s.

[Wideboy]

I could buy it. Seriously

but i wouldn't

[DJ123]

it would be interesting to see if you could get planning permission to do something slightly different

[Dipper]

Not too sure I'd pay £80k for a bit of goodwill....

[Wideboy]

it would be interesting to see if you could get planning permission to do something slightly different

firstly i start by getting hold of burgers that don't contain newspaper like the **** i had on sunday.

I'd ban harley fags not because of their choice of bkie but because they think its appropriate to park in teh most ridiculous of places so they don't have to far to carry their fat a55es to get food, plus everyone can see them whilst they pull in going "bwwwaababababwabwabwabwa bwaaa bwaaa"

[Matt-EUC]

firstly i start by getting hold of burgers that don't contain newspaper like the **** i had on sunday.

I'd ban harley fags not because of their choice of bkie but because they think its appropriate to park in teh most ridiculous of places so they don't have to far to carry their fat a55es to get food, plus everyone can see them whilst they pull in going "bwwwaababababwabwabwabwa bwaaa bwaaa"

As opposed to the sound of you going up the hill going "BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Inside your helmet.

[Wideboy]

As opposed to the sound of you going up the hill going "BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Inside your helmet.
but i do that on my own not whilst prancing about a busy bike stop in my ar5eless chaps.

i sense matt is a harley sympathizer

[Matt-EUC]

Not at all. Any customer is a good customer. Especially the hungry ones.

[Ninthbike]

I could buy it. Seriously

but i wouldn't
Me too!

firstly i start by getting hold of burgers that don't contain newspaper like the **** i had on sunday.

I'd ban harley fags not because of their choice of bkie but because they think its appropriate to park in teh most ridiculous of places so they don't have to far to carry their fat a55es to get food, plus everyone can see them whilst they pull in going "bwwwaababababwabwabwabwa bwaaa bwaaa"

It would be great to ban Harleys in the same way that stupid Americans ban everything else from some places in the US.

[Matt-EUC]

Why would you ban hungry customers with lots of money?!

[DJ123]

firstly i start by getting hold of burgers that don't contain newspaper like the **** i had on sunday.

I'd ban harley fags not because of their choice of bkie but because they think its appropriate to park in teh most ridiculous of places so they don't have to far to carry their fat a55es to get food, plus everyone can see them whilst they pull in going "bwwwaababababwabwabwabwa bwaaa bwaaa"

I'd agree with the food side of things, although I can say the bacon is nice.

I'd revamp it and split the car park to a bike only section & a car only section (which is blocked off during bike nights).
Revamp/re build the café. Make it larger with an outdoor serving hatch for drinks only.

[Wideboy]

but they don't spend money, they only turn up to feed off everyone's gaze like a goddam succubus.

[Tomor]

I'm buying it

[Matt-EUC]

I'd agree with the food side of things, although I can say the bacon is nice.

I'd revamp it and split the car park to a bike only section & a car only section (which is blocked off during bike nights).
Revamp/re build the café. Make it larger with an outdoor serving hatch for drinks only.

It has a hatch to the side, but they rarely open it.

I think the best thing you could do with that place is run sandwich vans. Send one up each road on a set round and you'd be rolling in it.

The bike trade is great but it's highly weather dependant. To keep afloat and consistently make a profit you'd need to tailor yourself to a wider range of customers. But you'd need to be careful about it so as not to distance yourselves from the bikers.

[DJ123]

Why would you ban hungry customers with lots of money?!

You consider the loss of people who don't go there because of them.

[Matt-EUC]

I'm buying it

I officially love you. Free blow jobs whenever you want.

[Matt-EUC]

You consider the loss of people who don't go there because of them.

A vast majority of people couldn't give less of a toss.
There are also a lot of Harley/cruiser meets there who spend big money.

[DJ123]

A vast majority of people couldn't give less of a toss.
There are also a lot of Harley/cruiser meets there who spend big money.

I hardly see any of them there, let alone a large group. There are far more supersports and adventure riders there on a regular basis.

People do give a toss, I don't know many who like a stupidly loud exhaust on a bike or car as it tarnishes the rest of the people in 'that' category

[The Idle Biker]

£80k for a 10 year lease and all the equipment and furnishings etc. Sounds a bit of a bargain to me. Anybody want to go tenths on a share?

[Matt-EUC]

The fat, hungry, rich Harley riders are the ones who spend the most money and eat. There can be 100 sports bikes in the carpark and 25 will eat, 50 will only buy a coffee and the rest just chat.

[Matt-EUC]

£80k for a 10 year lease and all the equipment and furnishings etc. Sounds a bit of a bargain to me. Anybody want to go tenths on a share?

I've got a tenner...

[DJ123]

The fat, hungry, rich Harley riders are the ones who spend the most money and eat. There can be 100 sports bikes in the carpark and 25 will eat, 50 will only buy a coffee and the rest just chat.

You may have missed my previous post. I hardly see any there at any time-Sunday being the last day I was down there (for a good hour). No good if they spend 'good' money once a week. Better off with getting lower trade from the rest of everyone who turn up regular and consistently.

[Matt-EUC]

I spend far more time there than is probably healthy. I see a large number of fat old blokes on cruisers a lot if the time but mostly in the summer. Once the temperature goes down, they hibernate. I know full well that the main customer is the sports/adventure bike rider. I'm just saying you can't discount the tractor drivers. If you want less of them then steer the business towards accommodating the other guys. It will be subtle and they will leave of their own accord.

[Ninthbike]

It has a hatch to the side, but they rarely open it.

I think the best thing you could do with that place is run sandwich vans. Send one up each road on a set round and you'd be rolling in it.

The bike trade is great but it's highly weather dependant. To keep afloat and consistently make a profit you'd need to tailor yourself to a wider range of customers. But you'd need to be careful about it so as not to distance yourselves from the bikers.

Ryka's seem to do quite a good job of this. They attract Bikers, Cyclists, Ramblers and dog walkers throughout the year.

[Matt-EUC]

Ryka's seem to do quite a good job of this. They attract Bikers, Cyclists, Ramblers and dog walkers throughout the year.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

It would also be good to get involved in geo-chacheing(?), I believe MotoGoLoco are trying a similar thing, to attract more trade.

[SvNewbie]

Hmm, employ some fit waitresses and stop being rude to customers. That would probably be a good step in the right direction. Decent breakfast and a coffee and it would be worth the ride down :)

[Matt-EUC]

I think her rudeness might have helped business. That and her breasts.

[Littlepeahead]

Bothering to put loo roll and soap in the ladies toilets would improve the place. And a ballpond play area.

And a bikini bike wash. Half price hose down when you buy a full English.

[Matt-EUC]

Bothering to put loo roll and soap in the ladies toilets would improve the place. And a ballpond play area.

And a bikini bike wash. Half price hose down when you buy a full English.

Only one of those is a legitimate suggestion...

Although bog roll and soap wouldn't go amiss.

[Spank86]

I'd agree with the food side of things, although I can say the bacon is nice.

I'd revamp it and split the car park to a bike only section & a car only section (which is blocked off during bike nights).
Revamp/re build the café. Make it larger with an outdoor serving hatch for drinks only.

It's leasehold only.

[Matt-EUC]

You cloud only redo the inside. But I wouldn't recommend it. The way it is now seems to work very well. I think the only thing I'd do to the building is tear up the carpet and put something easy to clean down Lino/tiles.

[Matt-EUC]

Is nobody going to buy it then? Not even several of you banded together?

[Spank86]

I'm buying it.

First investment is a sign saying "All Matts will be shot on sight"


It may seem harsh but it's the only way to be sure.

[Wideboy]

nah I've already looked at one **** hole today.

[DJ123]

Unless you own the plot there is very little you can do to it to improve it.

[Spank86]

nah I've already looked at one **** hole today.

This is a U rated forum, we don't need to know about your anal antics.

Unless you own the plot there is very little you can do to it to improve it.

exactly.

And the freehold wouldn't come cheap.

Wonder who DOES own it, that would be a better buy.

[Matt-EUC]

Pretty sure little chef still own the freehold.

[DJ123]

exactly.

And the freehold wouldn't come cheap.

Wonder who DOES own it, that would be a better buy.

Definitely. Far better to own the land and do a new layout & building.

[Spank86]

Definitely. Far better to own the land and do a new layout & building.

wouldnt even need that, just a car park extension to round the trees, and potentially a new entrance/exit at the top end

[Fallout]

I'm going to buy it. I have loads of money.

[Tomor]

I'm going to buy it. I have loads of money.

HA!












:oops:

[Matt-EUC]

HA!












:oops:

Well said Tom. Well said.

[Wideboy]

Money bags Tom should buy it. Might have to give up this month's trip to the Bahamas but it's a small sacrifice.

[Scoobs]

Without understanding this a bit more:

Asking Price: £79,950
Net Profit: Undisclosed
Sales Revenue: £158,293

...it's not worth the bother.

If you turnover a £1mill...which is your sales revenue, but only make £1 profit, you will never recover your investment.

Also a turnover of £3k per week hardly seems worth getting out of bed for. Once you factor in fixed and variable overheads you will be left with next to feck all. There will also be some weeks where you get nowhere close to this because of the "seasonal" demand. ****ty cashflow ahead.

Poor investment opportunity all round I think.

[Matt-EUC]

Profit IS disclosed on another website. £109k

[Matt-EUC]

Also, you're talking as though you're not going to do anything. Do everything suggested in this thread and you'll be rolling.

[Wideboy]

But you can't physically do anything to the property without permission and if you did get permission its then money you won't get back at the end. Essentially its the same as renting a house.

So they make 2k a week pure profit? I doubt it. If that were true then they are either stupid for not renewing or they're retiring.

[Wideboy]

according to that profit they have about £750 a week over heads

[Matt-EUC]

But you can't physically do anything to the property without permission and if you did get permission its then money you won't get back at the end. Essentially its the same as renting a house.

So they make 2k a week pure profit? I doubt it. If that were true then they are either stupid for not renewing or they're retiring.

You clearly didn't read the ad lol. The ARE retiring.

[Matt-EUC]

according to that profit they have about £750 a week over heads

Thats what the ad said.

[Wideboy]

So to put it in perspective to make 2k they have to sell 500 double cheese burgers a week.

[Wideboy]

Actually no more as they'd get feck all trade in the winter

[Littlepeahead]

So their lease has come to an end and they are retiring.

In addition to paying for the lease - which as I understand it is the right to occupy the property and use it as a cafe, is there additional ground rent to be paid? And management fees to the freeholder like you do when you own a leasehold flat?

No idea what the overheads would be but tax, staffing costs, fuel, insurance, cleaning, plus of course the cost of buying the ingredients for the all day breakfast, plus perhaps some costs for marketing to advertise a change of management is surely going to be more than £750 a week?

[Matt-EUC]

I said it was what was on the website. Never said anything about accurate.

[Wideboy]

Everyone gang up on matt

[Matt-EUC]

They don't need to be told Gav.

[Wideboy]

I'm just double checking


You sure you didn't read turn over as profit

[Matt-EUC]

I'm just double checking


You sure you didn't read turn over as profit

I read £158k turnover and £109k profit. Or somewhere around those figures. I'll post a link.

[Matt-EUC]

http://m.daltonsbusiness.com/cafes-for-sale/ex-little-chef-on-busy-a32-a27-junction-hampshire-uk/329543

[ClunkintheUK]

Gross or Net profit. Gross I could believe. they sell 158k of burgers, it costs them 49k to buy raw ingredients. Gross profit = 109K.

They hire three people (or 3 fte equivalent over the year, average of 120 hours for hired help a week), total cost per person = 22k a year. leccy, gas, ground rent etc another 15k all in (I am guessing a little bit with these two). Operating profit 28k. 40k loan to buy it so 2k interest (and that's cheap), 26k pretax income. Tax at 20% = 5k. Net profit 21K.

obviously this is only a ball park figure. so I would say give or take about 8k either way. This does not account for any depreciation/maintenance on the hardware. And assuming 1 owner also working in it. IF its a couple you can get rid of one of the FTE, but that's effectively working for 22k a year.

[Matt-EUC]

It's a couple and they work 70 hours a week each. They only have extra staff in when absolutely necessary.

[Matt-EUC]

Just done some thunking. By adding a sandwich van you'd increase turnover by 50% immediately.

I used some figures from the Alton cafe.

[ClunkintheUK]

Hah, jsut read the full post. Norfolk and chance. 178k revenue, 119 gross profit. Ok my numbers were wrong, but you get the idea from my post. 85k operating profit. 1 fte a year, 22k (including employer NI contributions etc) 63K. 12K corporate tax. 51K profit before XO items. Just about worth it for the work. You are effectively buying two jobs. Once you amortise the 80k investment over the 10 years lease, its 43k, or 21.5k each for working in a cafe.

[Wideboy]

Yeah get Clive in with his business brain.

Are you factoring in the costs of the van? Buying it, running it, maintenance, labour for running it, area to prepare sandwiches everyday, cost of running the route ect

[ClunkintheUK]

Sandwich van going where?

[ClunkintheUK]

IT could work as an investment, but only if you could build the business. I think you'd need to look to increase the revenues on site. If they have a hatch think about selling Tea/coffee and cake out of it. You'd get more people going if they knew they could get a cup of tea and cake in 4 minutes, or much less off peak times.

You get a lot of groups meet there, but don't buy a tea, cos it takes ages.

[Matt-EUC]

Sandwich van going where?

One in each direction.

[Matt-EUC]

Yeah get Clive in with his business brain.

Are you factoring in the costs of the van? Buying it, running it, maintenance, labour for running it, area to prepare sandwiches everyday, cost of running the route ect

Turnover Gav. Turnover.

[Matt-EUC]

Turnover is key, profit comes with managing it properly.

[ClunkintheUK]

Just noticed this. "Where items of equipment and appliances are mentioned, no warranty is given or implied as to their operational condition."

[Matt-EUC]

Just noticed this. "Where items of equipment and appliances are mentioned, no warranty is given or implied as to their operational condition."

Just a disclaimer.

[ClunkintheUK]

One in each direction.

TO where? sandwich vans do not make any turnover just trundling down the road. In every direction you go 5-10 miles before you reach any kind of population. and there is a McDonalds there.

If you are talking about doing sandwich deliveries to offices, or events, fine, but thats a different business model, and doesn't require spending 80k to buy some third hand gear and 35k to the landlord every year. Get your kitchen certified for food prep, make them there and deliver them.

[ClunkintheUK]

Turnover is key, profit comes with managing it properly.

Cash is King.

[Scoobs]

Turnover is key, profit comes with managing it properly.

Cash is King.

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity.

[Matt-EUC]

TO where? sandwich vans do not make any turnover just trundling down the road. In every direction you go 5-10 miles before you reach any kind of population. and there is a McDonalds there.

If you are talking about doing sandwich deliveries to offices, or events, fine, but thats a different business model, and doesn't require spending 80k to buy some third hand gear and 35k to the landlord every year. Get your kitchen certified for food prep, make them there and deliver them.

I am talking about delivering to offices, building sites, industrial estates, and catering for events etc.

A small van with ~40-60 calls will pull in an average of £300 a day.

A large van could take ~£700.

These figures aren't pull from thin air. This is my boss' forte.

He won't buy Loomies because he's old and retiring in case you asked.

[ClunkintheUK]

I wasn't disputing that van sandwich deliveries can work. But why would you buy a cafe to make van runs? Particularly van runs where you have to drive 10 miles before you make your first delivery?

[ClunkintheUK]

I like the line Scoobs.

[Wideboy]

50 quid diesel a day, 100 quid of stock?, the multiple insurances, labour, tax....

It doesn't work out well paid for a days work.

[Matt-EUC]

The building has a large kitchen already. And is in a good place to run the vans from. 10 miles in every direction isn't all that bad. The emphasis would be on the event catering side of things anyway. That's where the big money is. The cafe would be sidelined and left to tick over as it is.

[ClunkintheUK]

It does if you have 50 vans, and you're not driving any of them even if you only clear £5-10 profit a day from each van. sandwich delivery vans do work, I just don't want to be the guy driving it for too long.

[Matt-EUC]

Yeah. What clunk said.

[Matt-EUC]

But I'd only want to run up to a maximum of 8. Any more than that and it becomes ridiculous.
That, and there isn't the infrastructure to support more than that reliably.

[Matt-EUC]

I had an idea for what to put on the side of the vans. "Loomies' Lunchbox" what do you recon??

[Fallout]

Interesting how you all assume it'd be a crap business and they're probably getting out because they're struggling. The reality is they could afford to get married and close the whole place down for a week when they fecked off on their honeymoon. Not only that, they've started up a second business doing printing, so clearly managed to afford 10s of thousands of printing equipment. Perhaps a loan, but even so, the bank would only lend them money for that if their Loomies balance sheets were ok.

I'd guess they're just tired of the relentless grind that all cafes require, have pocketed a decent wadge of cash over the years and are now selling up to take it easy and run their more sedate printing business. I'd bet the business is genuinely a goodun and their is much moolah to be made, even in it's current format, if you can stomach the grind.

[Matt-EUC]

I thought they jacked in the printing lark.
But yeah, I wasn't saying their current model is sh!te. I was saying it can be improved tenfold. (More like 1.5fold to begin with)

[ClunkintheUK]

The building has a large kitchen already. And is in a good place to run the vans from. 10 miles in every direction isn't all that bad. The emphasis would be on the event catering side of things anyway. That's where the big money is. The cafe would be sidelined and left to tick over as it is.

If the cafe would be sidelined. I think 80K is a lot of money for a large kitchen. You still have to pay the ground rent. For 80k you'd be able to get a 10 year lease on mid sized industrial unit, fit a kitchen, perhaps buying the units from loomies second hand for about 10k. initially. It would be better, as you would already be right on one of the places you'd be selling to.

Agree there is plenty of money in Event catering. BUT THAT IS A DIFFERENT BUSINESS.

Is the kitchen big enough to support two events and the cafe on a sunny sunday in August (I remember them from when I was a lad).

20 miles in a van is, what, £14 a day (70p a mile, I am guessing, Gav will know) gone before you do anything. It also takes your delivery driver half an hour to cover it. Thats another £3 a day. So unless you save £17 a day per van by being in the middle of nowhere its not worth it.

[Matt-EUC]

Probably closer to 20p a mile tbh. But I don't want to completely disregard the cafe portion, I'd just focus my efforts on other things.

More to the point though, I want Loomies to stay a bikers cafe.

I'm not saying I'll ignore the cafe. I'll still try to generate more business for it especially for the winter/colder times.

[ClunkintheUK]

I'm not assuming its a carp business. They may well be very good at running it, but 180k turnover for 140 hours a week of their work is not rolling in it. Thats £25 of turnover per hour of their work. If they've been running it well the bank will happily loan them for printing machinery.

If they make 40k a year then the business is run very well. 25% net profit margin is very good. Anything over 10% is a very solid business. I'd lend to anyone who could achieve it.

I just don't think its worth buying it to run a sandwich delivery business. And think that it is a lot of grind for the money.

[ClunkintheUK]

The business mileage rate for a Bicycle (not motorbike) is 20p a mile. Cars and Vans are 45p This is what you can claim in expenses without being taxed. It was set about 12 years ago, and no longer reflects the true costs.

Fuel costs alone according to HMRC is 18p per mile for a van.

[Matt-EUC]

Ah, business mileage. You didn't say that :p

I thought you just meant fuel.

In that case, 70p a mile sounds more reasonable.

[ClunkintheUK]

Why would i mean just fuel? Its milage in a van for a business.

[Matt-EUC]

It didn't occur to me. I'm a bit slow.

[Matt-EUC]

What do you do for a living Mr Clunk sir?

[ClunkintheUK]

I was a Leveraged Finance Credit analyst. Till I took a wrong turn with my career.

[Matt-EUC]

Can't you pull a U turn and take the right turn on the way back??

[ClunkintheUK]

S'what I am trying to do. Well one of the things.

[ClunkintheUK]

I'd rather be the other side of the leverage finance deal. I.e. a business owner.

[Matt-EUC]

And buying cafés along the way? In partnership with another org member??

[Matt-EUC]

I'd rather be the other side of the leverage finance deal. I.e. a business owner.

I know of a business for sale.

http://m.daltonsbusiness.com/cafes-for-sale/ex-little-chef-on-busy-a32-a27-junction-hampshire-uk/329543

[ClunkintheUK]

Nope, not scalable.