Being turned towards the dark side

[timwilky]

I have been a code cutter for over 25 years. My areas of experteese are:

Java
C
C++
PHP
PERL
Fortran
Basic
plus Oracle development tools, ie forms 2.3 - forms 6 etc
Various macro assembler environments


Operating system experience from a development target has tradionally been Linux, unix or WebSphere/tomcat etc.

now my boss has suddenly decided that after years of "We don't programme, we buy off the shelf" and sacking all programmers. I am a project manager so have stayed. That he needs a personal code cutter. Hello Tim

But his project is a yucky nasty job and he has recognised it is outside of my area of experteese so I am being booked on my first training course in about 10 years.

The darkside beckons. C# Programming for Windows Applications, followed by
SQL Server 2000 Creating Reporting Solutions using SQL Server 2000 Reporting Services.

I think after attending these I will have to start drinking lager and worship at the alter of Micro$oft. Like hell i will. I can program Fortran in any language :lol:


Does this mean I will be able to talk the same language as you pups out there.

[keithd]

blah blah blah

SWOOSH

you have just spoked foreign mr wilky. :shock:

:D

[thor]

.Net is great!

No really, they have thought of everything. I've been coding VB a few years and using the framework libraries has been a breath of fresh air. I mean, who wants to write another date/time library. Just get on with application logic and forget about pointers, destructors. .Net assemblies rule too.

[mysteryjimbo]

.Net is great!

No really, they have thought of everything. I've been coding VB a few years and using the framework libraries has been a breath of fresh air. I mean, who wants to write another date/time library. Just get on with application logic and forget about pointers, destructors. .Net assemblies rule too.

Everything here is developed in .Net. No complaints. plus i dont have to use it, i only do the DBA side.

[Carsick]

I don't do C# and it doesn't look like I'm going to need to for the foreseeable future.

[thor]

It's a lot easier to understand than C/C++, and the documentation is great. I wouldn't call myself a high level programmer, but it hasn't disapointed me yet. The garbage collection can be a bit strange at times, but mostly it's fine.

[timwilky]

I don't do C# and it doesn't look like I'm going to need to for the foreseeable future.


Lucky You. Now if I could only get all my Java compiled so it ran as fast as my C stuff, I would be a very happy man and tell people where to stick their micro$oft stuff.

[thor]

Java is managed execution isn't it? It's not likely to run as fast as unmanaged C...

[Carsick]

It's possible to compile it down to machine code, but it kind've defeats the object of using java in the first place.

[timwilky]

Java runs within a virtual machine. This virtual machine runs natively on the selected platform and provides a standardised interface. The java classes are intermediate code that are the interpreted by the JVM.

Being able to run the java code on any platform is what makes java so wonderful. There are compilers, for native execution. But they take away the flexibility and my experience to date is that they are not very good.

It is just that some of my number crunching stuff is highly maintainable, but just takes an age to run

[thor]

Fairly similar to .Net then. However, you can compile assemblies in .Net made up of different languages, as they all get translated to intermediate code. So, you could get a COBOL.Net language and it would compile next to C# classes in the same dll just fine.

[wyrdness]

I think that it's time to start looking for another job. I would fight tooth and nail to avoid C# and .net. Aren't there other alternatives you can look at?

[philipMac]

I don't do C# and it doesn't look like I'm going to need to for the foreseeable future.


Lucky You. Now if I could only get all my Java compiled so it ran as fast as my C stuff, I would be a very happy man and tell people where to stick their micro$oft stuff.

There are a lot of tricks you can play that will seriously increase execution speed for Java. For a start, there are two JVMs, the default one, and a Server one. If you switch over to the server one, things start shifting.

This guy for instance is benchmarking against C++ and Java is standing up well.

http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45250

Might be worth running off a few tests...

On the other hand... C# is a good language. Better than Java in some respects. You can use it on a few diff platroms, like Linux at this point. .NET is a good platform, especially if you want to do work with XML (and SOAP and things). You can then look at Mono, and see what the story is with that. The basic idea behind .NET is elegant, and I agree with it. (And, I am happy that Mono copied it.)

I have to use Perl. And Jesus Christ... its complicated.

Fortran. Fortran... is basically... I dont even know. All the code I have seen from people who are ex FORTRANers has been manky beyond belief. (Not that you code that way... it just seems, the maintainability of that stuff is gack. Says me. Who writes perl all day... :oops: )

[philipMac]

Fairly similar to .Net then. However, you can compile assemblies in .Net made up of different languages, as they all get translated to intermediate code. So, you could get a COBOL.Net language and it would compile next to C# classes in the same dll just fine.

And can run it one any Windows machine. Its not portable like Java where you can just throw the byte code onto a UNIX box JVM and have it run away there.
.NET is still a lock in tool, but only just. Mono is very similar to .NET, but actually wrks over many Platforms. Mono is very interesting.

But, yeah, .NET is just the logical conclusion of Java. One louder, and lots of langs. Pity MS behave like they do though. MS were clever to see that people like to do certain things in certain langs, and not everyone wants to use Java for everything. A lot of the GUI stuff in Java is butt ugly IMO.

[philipMac]

It is just that some of my number crunching stuff is highly maintainable, but just takes an age to run
In this case, in my opinion, moving you away from Java is the biggest mistake your bosses can make. If you can maintain the code, if the code works, if its worked for a long time, they are completely insane to move to a new lang. Tell them to buy you a faster machine. Tell them to send you on an optimizing Java course.

I can almost guarantee they will not see thnigs getting faster if you re write in C#. The effort needed to do this is huge compared to the effort needed to make your Java run faster. And, you can make it faster. This is almost certain.

(I have nothing against C# BTW, just dont want to see you wasting loads of time on this thing.)

(If they are still sold on it... I know for a fact that Oracle are / have just migrated a lot of their stuff from C / C++ to java, precisely because its more maintainable. Oracale are not a) a mickey moust outfit, and b) are not in the business of wrting slow DBs. )
So... Yeah.

[Gnan]

I like .NET, it saves a lot of time.. i remember in the days of Borland C++ writing classes to handle the most mundane of tasks that should be built in anyway, what's the point of reinventing the wheel?

[hall13uk]

:-s :-k yeah errrrmmm good luck :lol:

[Anonymous]

Considering the optimized Java RsY spool rot, there is no doubt that C+++ex is a superior architexture where the organo-criteria migrates in a super lang much faster.

While FORTRAN does offer a target reflexology, the Oracle has two Javas and if you want a Perl necklace then the twinset spool-up offers some substitutability.

I have use this with DEC on the standard mainframe although when using the ANT substrate, it lowers the ROM to the point where it can RAM the Hi Lux in the Yaris.












(And which one of you get-a-lifers said that DARTS was boring???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: )

[Carsick]

Dude, that very nearly made sense.

[philipMac]

El Boc... Do you hear that noise?

Thats HR specialists beating the crap out of each other to be first to head hunt you into a Middle Management position.

You sir, are Qualified.

Twinset spool-up. Brilliant.