View Full Version : Parking Ticket Appeal. What do you think?
Got a letter in the post from Lambeth council with a nice £120 fine reduced to £60 if paid quickly. The letter included a picture of me standing next to my bike apparently in a restricted parking area.
On this occasion I had pulled to the side of the road to put on a pair of sunglasses and a high-visibility jacket as there was a strong, low sun, I couldn't see and I assumed others would not be able to see me.
They provided 3 photos, all showing me next to the bike, 2 with no hi-viz and 1 with.
I've challenged it on the grounds I had to pull over for safety reasons, never left the bike and if they look at the CCTV footage they have they will see me just putting on glasses and a hi-viz then pulling off again.
Question is :-
Offence is stated as "02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"
But given I never left my vehicle could I be considered as parked?
Anyone ever challenged a ticket in Lambeth on these grounds and got away with it?
Cheers,
Mark
I have no idea, but if they go ahead with the fine and don't let you off, that would prove that it was nothing more than a money grabbing chance. It must have been bloody obvious to the camera operator what you were doing.
A hole springs to mind. Good luck with it.
Appeal has been sent. Lets see how it goes.
Biker Biggles
15-09-07, 07:18 AM
One for the papers if you fail.
Or even if you suceed.
Was it issued by an attendant or by a remote CCTV camera?
Was remote CCTV. Interestingly they say they have more footage if required which I see as a good thing as it can only support my statement.
Getting jacket from top-box... ( I know some may think that simply having a top box makes be guilty, but thats an altogether different thread-)
http://parkingphotos.lambeth.gov.uk/output/optimised/img18352942.jpg?28236
Putting it on
http://parkingphotos.lambeth.gov.uk/output/optimised/img18352941.jpg?237174
On, safe and ready to go.
http://parkingphotos.lambeth.gov.uk/output/optimised/img18352943.jpg?520499
I've replied in your oither post but, just so you know anyway:
Contest it anyway. From what I remember, if you contest it straight away and lose then you still only pay the lesser amount.
You could always argue that current legislation prohibits the use of a dark visor so for you to be able to see safely in bright sunlight you have no option other than to stop and put sunglasses on. For them to insist that you should have rode on not being able to see safely would be a failure for them to carry out a duty of care.
that'as a big bunch of tw@ for even trying to fine you for that!
Spiderman is our local web-slinging hero, and resident parking ticket guru. He has contested (and won) more cases than anyone else I know. I'm sure he'll be along soon, but if not, drop the nice man a PM;)
That said I'm certain you need to be stationary for 5 minutes for there to be a ticket issued by a parking warden, I fail to see why this isn't the case with CCTV!
Best of luck,
Jambo
Cloggsy
15-09-07, 09:13 AM
Hope you win... A55'ole jobsworths :!:
John 675
15-09-07, 09:30 AM
seriously good luck with this Mark,
I had a Yamaha DT125 on a 54 plate, i got a letter from london ( ive only ever been once ) council saying i was in a bus lane? but the picture they sent me was a MO-PED with the same Plate?
anyway i was threatend legal action after contesting it, but when this contravention allegedly happend i had part ex'd the DT for my SV so it was sat in a show room in stoke.... and i live in nottingham
and my SV was in my garage waiting to be ridden after i passed my DAS
anyway to cut a long story short... after almost assaulting a balif that was after my SV for paymant..
and after loads of letters and hardlined proof that it wasnt me and that the numberplate should not be on a moped anyway they simply just stopped sending letters... no sorry no nothing.. took about a year to clear.
they really wanted my cash. i told the general manager of hackney borough council to ***K off before i press for harrasment charges.. end of
so i know how your feeling mark just dont EVER give in.. :D
LyleJ
Good luck. Hope it works out - blOOOdy jobs worths. That car pictured in front of you...was that parked up? If so, wonder if that driver was issued a ticket?
The mind boggles sometimes. Whatever happened to applying common sense?
DanAbnormal
15-09-07, 12:50 PM
Did you switch off the ignition? If the engine is running it is not considered to be parked. Good luck!
Did you switch off the ignition? If the engine is running it is not considered to be parked. Good luck!
Certainly looks like it's running to me! :-D
What on earth is the world coming to?
I can understand them taking a look because it was on a No Waiting area, but for goodness sake, and I think this is the crunch of your argument, you put on a safety Hi Vis jacket - that carries a lot more weight than the sunglasses.
I too would contest it. Good Luck and keep us posted.
Lou x
Biker Biggles
16-09-07, 03:48 PM
This is really back to the old issue about letting techno surveillance run our lives.Like speed scameras there is no common sense and that is why human beings (thats us by the way)find this kind of enforcement so frustrating.
Vive la revolution.
seriously good luck with this Mark,
I had a Yamaha DT125 on a 54 plate ... but when this contravention allegedly happend i had part ex'd the DT for my SV so it was sat in a show room in stoke.... and i live in nottingham
Triple bonus stupidity points here, I reckon - not only was it the wrong bike, but in the wrong city and the wrong owner as well (presuming the PX meant that the dealership owned the bike briefly).
The worrying thing about this is that anyone doing even the slightest bit of research could tell the difference between a DT and a moped. The ANPR people seriously need to stop sucking up to the terror police and start listening to what remains of the traffic departments [-o<
Warthog
17-09-07, 11:56 AM
Argh how extremely annoying! I can't beleive they would stoop so low as to try to get you for that. I'd suggest going to the media, they seem to do more for a case than judges and jurys do nowadays (sadly).
Rediculous.
I think you will get that appeal. I once ran out of petrol on the mall. Needless to say I got a ticket from a policeman. I appealled on teh grounds that there was no way for me to push the bike to a legal parking area safely. I got let off the sargeant!
I think you will win on safety grounds.
I once got 'offered' a £180 fine and 3 points. Basically I went down a road that was a dead end and entered into a pedestrian zone. Somebody was parked in the turning bay and a large van/truck thing was behind me. The only safe option as it was busy with pedestrians was to enter the pedestrian zone and 3 point turn, then let the truck by.
Anyway I got my letter and went to the place where it happened, took 30 photos of people stuck in a similar situation to myself and sent them with a softely spoken letter.
This then got 'lost' and 6 months down the line I got another threatening letter. I then hand delivered the same correspondance and got 'let off with a warning' :rolleyes:
www.pepipoo.com has lots and lots of info on how to appeal etc. and has a few lawyers/solictors reading it to give advice.
Ceri JC
17-09-07, 02:34 PM
Did you switch off the ignition? If the engine is running it is not considered to be parked. Good luck!
Yep. I would point out that the bike's engine was running the whole time (even if it wasn't).
Got the response from the council today and they insist I was illegally parked so the fine stands. I can contest it again but if I fail the fine goes up to £120.
I feel a phone call to the Sun is called for tomorrow.
Got the response from the council today and they insist I was illegally parked so the fine stands. I can contest it again but if I fail the fine goes up to £120.
I feel a phone call to the Sun is called for tomorrow.
And MCN - it seems worthwhile just to make your point.
Warthog
17-10-07, 08:31 PM
B*stards! You were filmed standing right next to the bike, putting on your stuff! I would be so angry, and threaten to go to the media.
dizzyblonde
17-10-07, 09:18 PM
Did you switch off the ignition? If the engine is running it is not considered to be parked. Good luck!
Aren't all motorcycles classed as bicycles on your tax disk?? Always wondered what the laws of parking and tax disks are with ''bicycles''
gettin2dizzy
18-10-07, 08:01 AM
I'm amazed you got the photos. Recently councils haven't even sent the 'proof' speed camera photos to people. They won't let you see them until in court.
Anyone with the most basic of knowledge will know this is entirely illegal. One rule for us...
gettin2dizzy
18-10-07, 08:02 AM
Aren't all motorcycles classed as bicycles on your tax disk?? Always wondered what the laws of parking and tax disks are with ''bicycles''
I wonder this too, when lanes say taxi and 'cycle'.
Ceri JC
18-10-07, 10:25 AM
I'm amazed you got the photos. Recently councils haven't even sent the 'proof' speed camera photos to people. They won't let you see them until in court.
Anyone with the most basic of knowledge will know this is entirely illegal. One rule for us...
Get your lawyer to insist on providing them prior to the court appearence. If they don't, you can get it rescheduled to allow you a chance to look at the "evidence". The court will take a dim view of this (against them), if you can prove you requested it prior to the hearing.
plowsie
18-10-07, 11:33 AM
Bit sh1te really TBH i would contest it!
You wont win.
The better half works in the call centre that will deal with this. There are 1000's of things like this. Yes they are money grabbing b'stds, yes its daylight robbery.
One thing that you could ask, is for a definition of loading. That'll throw 'em as there isnt one.
But clearly you where not loading, so you are breaking the rules. Just choose where to stop more carefully.
Got the response from the council today and they insist I was illegally parked so the fine stands. I can contest it again but if I fail the fine goes up to £120.
I feel a phone call to the Sun is called for tomorrow.
My understanding of this is as soon as you protest their claims the countdown for the increased price stops until the protest is resolved.
Have you tried the website at the bottom of page 2, they are really good.
Fizzy Fish
18-10-07, 11:49 AM
My understanding of this is as soon as you protest their claims the countdown for the increased price stops until the protest is resolved.
I think I'm right in saying that they hold the reduced price option for 14 days after the initial appeal (i.e. the one already done), but not when you take it further.
All of which is vey irritating as the councils always refuse the initial claim cos it isn't in their interests not to! They then know you're more likely to back down rather than risk the higher fine. Barstewards... :smt068
Pedro68
18-10-07, 12:23 PM
I'm no expert, but here's my 2cents ...
Looking at it from the council's persepective, I think they would probably argue that you were "waiting".
Now I don't know what the weather conditions were like, and I don't know what your route is like, but on the morning in question, I suppose they could argue that you might have "expected" there to be a low bright sun, and therefore could possibly or SHOULD possibly have worn the appropriate attire from the start of your journey and thereby would not have needed to "stop off" anywhere along a route that you may know to be limited in the number of safe/legal places to stop.
Interestingly, I wonder if anyone has been "ticketed" for pulling into such a place to take a phone call on their mobile phone?!
Sounds very unfair to me though personally, and I think if I was in your shoes (and could afford it) I'd fight them every inch of the way on principle.
I really do wish you the best of luck with it though!
Pete
gettin2dizzy
18-10-07, 12:44 PM
You only stopped. Unless there is the sign to state that isn't allowed it's maloney. MCN has a legal advice column now, may be worth a bash.
On another note, I have never used the word 'maloney' before. Today I've used it twice :)
If anyone is interested, Motorcycle News have taken up my story. Page 11 of this weeks issue,
plowsie
02-11-07, 03:13 PM
:smt026
If anyone is interested, Motorcycle News have taken up my story. Page 11 of this weeks issue,
thought that was you! :cool:, good luck
Neat - hope it has some affect overall.
phil24_7
03-11-07, 08:56 PM
I'm sure the highway code say's something about slowing down and even stopping if your visibilty is impared due to glare. It is unsafe to keep riding/driving if you cannot see!
Contest it, I recon they'll cave at the first hurdle as no judge in the country is gonna rule against that!
Can someone put the MCN bit up on here please.
:)
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