View Full Version : Mother dies after refusing blood
gettin2dizzy
05-11-07, 01:45 PM
A young mother has died after giving birth to twins, following claims that she had refused a blood transfusion because of her faith.
Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions because they believe that God has forbidden it in the Bible. They believe that accepting a blood transfusion is a sin.
How sad :( Can people with authority in the church really enforce these interpretations of the bible without massive feelings of guilt and loss? Whilst she should be free to do what she wants, it makes me sad that people can live in such fear of 'god'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm
Religon/belief is the cause of most wars and most issues in this world today.
Sums it up really.
What an incredibly stupid and selfish woman. :rolleyes:
Two young children will never know their mother. I wonder what they will think of the JW religion. It's just so desperately sad. I can't understand it personally, but then again I'm not a JW.
Welsh_Wizard
05-11-07, 01:54 PM
Can't fathom this - what an absolute nutter.
Religion is by far the biggest dark cloud on this planet. Not only are we killing each other in wars in the name of religion, we are now doing when we should be celebrating the greatest moment in our lives - parenthood. Defies belief.
Stupid no, selfish yes, after all we all make choices in our life. Though the choice of being a Dad to my son is the most important, more important then my beliefs, after all I believe in my son more then god. As I can see my son here and now... Even if I did get to some pearly gate and the god looked down on me and said 'You took the blood of another person'. I would say yes, and I would do it again to spend those years with my son, oh and for a all forgiving god your very vengeful and picky.
gettin2dizzy
05-11-07, 01:58 PM
Two young children will never know their mother. I wonder what they will think of the JW religion. It's just so desperately sad. I can't understand it personally, but then again I'm not a JW.
I imagine they'll be pressured in to it. Amazing what fear can do.
Edit: ...I mean faith....:rolleyes:
husky03
05-11-07, 02:05 PM
To people who don't hold the same beliefs as this woman it will be an unexplainable decision that she made-but it was her choice,her faith and the price has been paid.
I'm not religous,but I think her actions -whether right or wrong-speak volumes for the belief she had in her god-tragic that a family have lost the strongest link among them, but if they believe the way she did they will understand her choice
husky03
05-11-07, 02:07 PM
I imagine they'll be pressured in to it. Amazing what fear can do.
Edit: ...I mean faith....:rolleyes:
How do you imagine they'll be pressured into it?-for them to pressured into it they would need to be aware of other options and then be pushed towards being jw's.
tomjones2
05-11-07, 02:29 PM
At the end of the day it was her choice, not that I agree with her beliefs but she has a right to them. She was an adult and I'm sure she didn't take the decison lightly.
Erm... sweeping statements abound... :lol:
I used to be one, from about the age of 8 'til I was old enough to choose for myself. While my mum is still a JW she wouldn't ever refuse any lifesaving opportunities on the grounds of faith.
JW's are actually pretty much the nicest bunch of people you'll ever come across (spookily nice :lol:).
I don't remember fear being the way they taught the bible. I now 'won't be saved' but I'm kewl with that and my mum's had to accept it too. :lol:
'being saved' : Going to eternal paradise when armageddon comes. JW's will go, the rest of us just die. :lol: Hurrah! :lol:
Pah... Patriarchal religions... Always all or nothing.
Spiderman
05-11-07, 02:37 PM
Selfish woman.
Any anyway the "god" portrayed in the bible, well the old testament anyway, was a god of famines/plagues/floods and very vengfull.
I can understand why some people describe themselves as "god fearing" if thats what they think god is.
i thought god was all loving and all forgiving in which case he would have told this woman "Even tho you shouldnt have taken the blood you did and i forgive you for it, especially as you did it to bring up your child not cause you just grazed you knee or anything trivial like that."
'being saved' : Going to eternal paradise when armageddon comes. JW's will go, the rest of us just die. :lol: Hurrah! :lol:
Pah... Patriarchal religions... Always all or nothing.
I was told the other day that JWs (if they're the doorbell ones) believe that there are only a finite number of places in heaven so they go around being Extra nice to bump up their niceness quota for that seat at JC's dinner table.
Could be total lies of course - it just amused me to think of a Cliff Richard type just about to tuck into the starter course when a mother Theresa type pops her clogs & she was able to top trump his niceness quota.
Sorry for the derail.
Biker Biggles
05-11-07, 04:38 PM
Interesting.No one has said they think she should have been treated compulsoraly to save her life.
Yet most people, when we have the debate, think compulsory wearing of crash helmets on bikes is a good law,just in case it might save your life.
'being saved' : Going to eternal paradise when armageddon comes. JW's will go, the rest of us just die. :lol: Hurrah! :lol:
Pah... Patriarchal religions... Always all or nothing.
do you actually belive that s**t ??? you sound a bit like radicals , yes there are loads of virgins wating for you if you kill that infadel!!
Pedrosa
05-11-07, 08:34 PM
Sorry to disagree with the majority of folks here.
Religion itself is no evil thing,in fact I would go as far to say that in the main it is a good thing. It teaches right from wrong,consideration of others and often causes one to consider views that might differ from our own.
What is the problem...always has been and always will be...is how individuals choose to interpret the messages within any religious teaching.
yorkie_chris
06-11-07, 12:01 AM
do you actually belive that s**t ??? you sound a bit like radicals , yes there are loads of virgins wating for you if you kill that infadel!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cCspBW8O8c
:smt044
As for jehovas witnesses, refusing life saving treatment, IMO is a bit daft, and possibly suicidal, which I think is forbidden as well.
I hope her family feel as strongly about it as she did.
My own experience of religion is mixed, it draws the best and the worst out of people, most are caring and kind but theres always the minority of "holier than thou" morons.
As for the various religions who go door knocking, if I want converting, I'll go and convert my f##king self :smt098
do you actually belive that s**t ??? you sound a bit like radicals , yes there are loads of virgins wating for you if you kill that infadel!!
Did you actually READ my WHOLE post or are you just firing off with no grounds again???
:rolleyes:
Get your smegging facts straight before you shoot your mouth off.
Firstly: 'The rest of US just die.' As in, people NOT JW's. I'm simply explaining THEIR views. I stopped as soon as I decided it wasn't for me.
And secondly: I'm pretty DAMNED sure that I stated they're very nice people, having actually KNOWN quite a few, my mother amongst them. They're NOT radicals, they have their own peaceful religious views.
:smt013
Did you actually READ my WHOLE post or are you just firing off with no grounds again???
:rolleyes:
Get your smegging facts straight before you shoot your mouth off.
Firstly: 'The rest of US just die.' As in, people NOT JW's. I'm simply explaining THEIR views. I stopped as soon as I decided it wasn't for me.
And secondly: I'm pretty DAMNED sure that I stated they're very nice people, having actually KNOWN quite a few, my mother amongst them. They're NOT radicals, they have their own peaceful religious views.
:smt013
hit a raw nerve have I???
I never said they were radicals just alluded to that some of their stubbern minded religious poppy **** is on par with the sort of cr*p radical belive, so maybe YOU should read my posts properly before shooting your mouth off!!!
hit a raw nerve have I???
I never said they were radicals just alluded to that some of their stubbern minded religious poppy **** is on par with the sort of cr*p radical belive, so maybe YOU should read my posts properly before shooting your mouth off!!!
I quote again,
do you actually belive that s**t ??? you sound a bit like radicals , yes there are loads of virgins wating for you if you kill that infadel!!
So how was that NOT directed at me?
I quote again,
So how was that NOT directed at me?
you as in JW's
you as in JW's
But Ping had clearly stated that she is NOT a JW :?
Flamin_Squirrel
06-11-07, 10:27 AM
hit a raw nerve have I???
I never said they were radicals just alluded to that some of their stubbern minded religious poppy **** is on par with the sort of cr*p radical belive, so maybe YOU should read my posts properly before shooting your mouth off!!!
As far as I'm aware there's no militant wing of the JW. We may view them as nuts, but comparing them with violent lunatics is pretty far off the mark.
you as in JW's
I am NOT a JW and you've just proven my point. :rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 10:29 AM
As far as I'm aware there's no militant wing of the JW. We may view them as nuts, but comparing them with violent lunatics is pretty far off the mark.
http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/jack%20heres_johnny.jpg
Here's Jehovah!
ok i got it wrong (again) i am big enough to conceed that!
the_runt69
06-11-07, 10:35 AM
do you actually belive that s**t ??? you sound a bit like radicals , yes there are loads of virgins wating for you if you kill that infadel!!
What good would loads of Virgins do for Ping, sure she'd prefer loads of experienced rugby playing firemen to be wating for her.
back to the thread, Im with pedrosa here religion is not a bad thing its just the lunatics who are so blinkered they cant beleive any other faith has a right to exist.
ok i got it wrong (again) i am big enough to conceed that!
Ok - despite the quite offensive comparison had I actually been a JW - we be square then.
:)
Edit: Runt - :lol: Too true... mmmmm... rugby playing firemen.... :)
Luckypants
06-11-07, 10:45 AM
ok i got it wrong (again) i am big enough to conceed that!
But not big enough to offer a public apology?
ok i got it wrong (again) i am big enough to conceed that!
But not big enough to offer a public apology?
Good point.
Ok I Publically apologise for saying that Ping was a JW and that I then compared her to a Extremist.
I am sorry.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 10:50 AM
When does the stoning begin?
(please please avoid any Monty Python quote....at all...)
Ok I Publically apologise for saying that Ping was a JW and that I then compared her to a Extremist.
I am sorry.
S'alright dude.
:)
Also, thanks for sticking up for me guys. :thumleft:
(please please avoid any Monty Python quote....at all...)
G2D, you might like this (http://www.xkcd.com/16/)cartoon.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 11:19 AM
G2D, you might like this (http://www.xkcd.com/16/)cartoon.
hehe. I do - and the following 20 minutes worth after that! :p
especially this one
http://www.xkcd.com/70/ (http://www.xkcd.com/70/)
hehe. I do - and the following 20 minutes worth after that! :p
especially this one
http://www.xkcd.com/70/ (http://www.xkcd.com/70/)
There are some real gems there. A good way to waste a day!:thumbsup:
plowsie
06-11-07, 11:37 AM
What good would loads of Virgins do for Ping
Dunno she's never asked me :smt033
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 11:51 AM
Dunno she's never asked me :smt033
Is this a confessional derail? :rolleyes:
plowsie
06-11-07, 11:56 AM
Yes :(
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 12:00 PM
Maybe someone on the org will lend you their girlfriend?
Sound good?
Ok I Publically apologise for saying that Ping was a JW and that I then compared her to a Extremist.
I am sorry.
I've just said on another thread that not all disputes can be solved by talks and that violence/war/physical action will always be around us - Have I just been proven wrong? I'm not apologising though!!:smt118
As for people calling her selfish, I think its quite unfair. her family will have known her beliefs I suspect - her husband married her also knowing this (for better/worse etc)?
I don't understand that JW religion (or many others to be fair) but we all (ok most of us) go about our lives in a way that we understand it should be whether through religion/school/parents guidance etc in other words what we've been told which we later develop as we form our own views. But who is right.
Most of our morals eminate from the bible - and what is that? Someone elses interpretation of stories from some time ago - apparently. JW's also follow the bible but have a different interpretation. What I'm getting at is that we can all interpret issues to suit what is comfortable for us. Every other interpretation is then flawed in our view. Look at your everyday 'christian' Catholic and Protestant views are wildly different. A priest can't marry, can't use contraception etc etc - who says so? = Someone else's interpretation that we have come to believe?
Daft even loony? IMHO very much so - Selfish? No more than that the every day choices we make in our own interests, road rage etc - someone ends up upset - how selfish to inflict that upset?
I like to think I'm quite tolerant and open minded but if you are a JW (or any other religion) please don't come knocking on my door!!
Most of our morals eminate from the bible
I hate it when people say that.
I don't think that is true.
I hate it when people say that.
I don't think that is true.
I hate it too but sadly think it is true
I hate it too but sadly think it is true
Nah. I think (some) people must have had morals before the bible. I think it's more likely that the bible reflects morals rather than the other way around.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 01:13 PM
I hate it too but sadly think it is true
yeah we had no morals before the bible was written. :thumleft:
As (little) as I know about JW it stems from a single passage where you must 'abstain from blood'. Now of course that is open to translation. Ping - are you at all religious now?
Caddy2000
06-11-07, 01:17 PM
Only about rugby playing firemen! :mrgreen:
tomjones2
06-11-07, 01:17 PM
Sorry but morals do not come from the bible, the bible comes from humans morals.
If i'm not mistaken the bible, koran etc were writen by good people to allow people to have a code to live by when formal goverments were not that strong. I think a lot of these books have been twisted into something else.
These books were infomed by the current moral thinking of the day, which isnt that diffrent from today, except from views on s*x and woman rights. I mean the basic of dont kill, cheat, covert etc are still very valid.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 01:21 PM
Sorry but morals do not come from the bible, the bible comes from humans morals.
If i'm not mistaken the bible, koran etc were writen by good people to allow people to have a code to live by when formal goverments were not that strong. I think a lot of these books have been twisted into something else.
These books were infomed by the current moral thinking of the day, which isnt that diffrent from today, except from views on s*x and woman rights. I mean the basic of dont kill, cheat, covert etc are still very valid.
woah! There's a lot of disturbing parts of the Koran, and it was not mean to be taken lightly
Warthog
06-11-07, 01:24 PM
There are disturbing parts of the bible, amongst other things 22 reasons why you need to stone someone to death. Morals come from humans, they WAY predate the bible.
yeah we had no morals before the bible was written. :thumleft:
Yeah, not quite what I mean't. To be fair I can't remember much before the bible can you? Suspect that source for most of todays 'morals' will be from the bible. The bible as I understand are a collection of moral stories collected from pre bible (of course) stuff that someone at some time either from the bible or before and told us is the way to be. Whatever. Where did your morals come from? Mine were from my family and community which Grandparents and before them were influenced by religion/local beliefs.
As (little) as I know about JW it stems from a single passage where you must 'abstain from blood'. Now of course that is open to translation. Ping - are you at all religious now?
blood from a single passage.. sounds like piles...
of something:D
Sorry to disagree with the majority of folks here.
Religion itself is no evil thing,in fact I would go as far to say that in the main it is a good thing. It teaches right from wrong,consideration of others and often causes one to consider views that might differ from our own.
What is the problem...always has been and always will be...is how individuals choose to interpret the messages within any religious teaching.
I disagree with this statement to some extent. Although I dont believe religion to be evil as such, I dont think it is a very good package to teach and ask for adherence to morals. The majority of religions have always been used to offer a reward for following the code and punishment for not, but with that comes absolute devotion and the closed mind to all other points of view. Sometimes to the point of one's own death, as has been proved in this case and the death of others (jihad/crusade anyone?).
I personnally do not have a religious bone in my body, but I adhere to certain morals which allow me to live in a civilised society. I dont need religion for that and I do not believe that the morals came from religion in the first instance.
Sorry but morals do not come from the bible, the bible comes from humans morals.
If i'm not mistaken the bible, koran etc were writen by good people to allow people to have a code to live by when formal goverments were not that strong. I think a lot of these books have been twisted into something else.
These books were infomed by the current moral thinking of the day, which isnt that diffrent from today, except from views on s*x and woman rights. I mean the basic of dont kill, cheat, covert etc are still very valid.
I obviously haven't explained what I mean't sorry. You are absolutely right. What I'm saying is that our morals - which we live by now have probably been sourced from the bible as a reference material. We can't ask the people before the bible was written cos they're dead. No doubt some pedantic herbert will argue this too :rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 01:52 PM
Religion is a big pile of poo. Utter twoddle. Big bunch of ********. Complete waste of words. Massive load of crap.
I personnally do not have a religious bone in my body, but I adhere to certain morals which allow me to live in a civilised society. I dont need religion for that and I do not believe that the morals came from religion in the first instance.
+1
plowsie
06-11-07, 02:30 PM
Religion is a big pile of poo. Utter twoddle. Big bunch of ********. Complete waste of words. Massive load of crap.
So you against it then?
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 02:36 PM
So you against it then?
Love it. I'm not against religion ( I totally am) but I do wonder if people who are religous have a screw loose, or any screw vaguely tightened at all for that matter. Use your head, if there was a god he would not strike you down for questioning your beliefs, and the pope surely wouldn't look so decrepit. I struggle to maintain respect for people who are religous.
Ping - are you at all religious now?
We went through quite a few of the christian-based faiths (i.e. baptists, JW's, etc) until my mum settled on JW's. Having learned what I've learned from all that I've opted out of the whole patriarchal religious concepts and settled with a view that pre-dates them all, as to my mind it's more balanced than any of 'em.
I am, however, unsure of the whole 'divinity' aspect. I've seen some pretty strange sh*t since I started on this path but that is by no means proof that there are deities.
There's only one major rule:
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.
I follow it simply because I agree with it.
...
*waits calmly for first knee-jerk reaction*
:smt016
Pedrosa
06-11-07, 02:38 PM
Religion is THE only way by which to live a clean and rewarding life..just ask Spidey!:)
Luckypants
06-11-07, 02:40 PM
*waits calmly for first knee-jerk reaction*
:smt016
I refer you to the portly gentleman frothing at the mouth, sat nearby....
[quote=gettin2dizzy;1332722] Use your head, if there was a god he would not strike you down for questioning your beliefs. quote]
Sounds like a new religion...
Welsh_Wizard
06-11-07, 02:47 PM
For those that take this matter a little more serious than others I suggest a book called 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins.
Really quite an unbelievable read.
Not a mindless bible-bashing, religious-burning fanatical rant but a well thought out FACTUALLY-based book on the various writings and current thoughts on God/Jesus/Bible religion in general.
10/10
ps.) I am in no way religious - just wanted to swat up on the lingo so I could give the mother-in-law an education when she gets the holy soapbox out.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 02:49 PM
For those that take this matter a little more serious than others I suggest a book called 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins.
Really quite an unbelievable read.
Not a mindless bible-bashing, religious-burning fanatical rant but a well thought out FACTUALLY-based book on the various writings and current thoughts on God/Jesus/Bible religion in general.
10/10
ps.) I am in no way religious - just wanted to swat up on the lingo so I could give the mother-in-law an education when she gets the holy soapbox out.
The hole prevent it from going slimey. Let her :)
Pedro68
06-11-07, 02:50 PM
Maybe someone on the org will lend you their girlfriend?
Can't lend you the current one, but you can certainly HAVE my ex-wife :clown:
We went through quite a few of the christian-based faiths (i.e. baptists, JW's, etc) until my mum settled on JW's. Having learned what I've learned from all that I've opted out of the whole patriarchal religious concepts and settled with a view that pre-dates them all, as to my mind it's more balanced than any of 'em.
I am, however, unsure of the whole 'divinity' aspect. I've seen some pretty strange sh*t since I started on this path but that is by no means proof that there are deities.
There's only one major rule:
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.
I follow it simply because I agree with it.
...
*waits calmly for first knee-jerk reaction*
:smt016
Can't knee jerk cos knee is wonky - but no, I like it (I think - odd kinda language that old stuff :D). Very good moral - where did it come from? I'm not religious at all and have never read the bible.
Best moral I've heard which I try to adhere to is that one about casting the first stone and all that. Probably from the bible but so what, still think its good.
Can't knee jerk cos knee is wonky - but no, I like it (I think - odd kinda language that old stuff :D). Very good moral - where did it come from? I'm not religious at all and have never read the bible.
Best moral I've heard which I try to adhere to is that one about casting the first stone and all that. Probably from the bible but so what, still think its good.
Jester'll be along shortly to burn me at the stake. :lol:
:-D
Pedro68
06-11-07, 02:56 PM
Oh, and I've known and worked with a few JW's for many a year and they have always been really nice (exceptionally nice) people. As has been said before also, I don't necessarily agree with their beliefs, but it made working out the Christmas rota easy ;-)
Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that this woman's family stated that a blood tranfusion would (may?!) not have necessarily saved her life anyway.
At the end of the day it was her decision to make, her decision not ours, so she chose to refuse blood if it was required because of her beliefs and paid the ultimate price, but it was her decision because of HER beliefs, not ours, so let her rest in peace. Ping, you are as entitled to your beliefs as anyone on this site and have as much right to voice them as anyone else without being called an extremist. I used to love coming on this site but getting totally ****ed off with the constant arguing and aggro.
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 03:01 PM
Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that this woman's family stated that a blood tranfusion would (may?!) not have necessarily saved her life anyway.
Because she could have caught aids or hepatitis from the blood. Think they were struggling for an argument there.
Pedro68
06-11-07, 03:05 PM
Very good moral - where did it come from? I'm not religious at all and have never read the bible.
Best moral I've heard which I try to adhere to is that one about casting the first stone and all that. Probably from the bible but so what, still think its good.
IMO, that's all the bible is ... just a bunch of moral-based stories with a few extravagances and embellishments to sell a few more copies or to attract a bigger/wider audience.
I used to go to church (many moons ago) and have chosen (since the age of about 18 ) not to bother anymore (for various reasons). I don't believe in God (at least not the bible's portrayal). I am inclined to believe that there may be A god since there is a distinct lack of proof to the contrary. I don't have extremist views, and I don't follow any particular religion as I think MANY of them have their good points (morals), and their bad points (extremist interpretations).
I'd like to think that if there is a god and s/he is "all forgiving" that s/he will forgive my ignorance when it matters most ;-)
And if there isn't ... then I won't be too disappointed when my time's up :)
Pedrosa
06-11-07, 03:10 PM
"Many Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believe that it is a gross sin to accept a blood transfusion, since the Bible states that we must "abstain from blood." (Acts 15:29)"
Spiderman
06-11-07, 03:32 PM
I wonder (and maybe the lovely Ping can enlighten me with an answer on this one) if JWs also dont eat shelfish as that is an abomination too according to the bible as well as many other things like wearing clothes woven from two diffrent cloths or something like that.
Pedrosa
06-11-07, 04:28 PM
Spidey...stop splitting hairs!:p:p
gettin2dizzy
06-11-07, 04:30 PM
Jesus was also known for sucking on the odd fag
but the dangers of smoking weren't known in those days
I wonder (and maybe the lovely Ping can enlighten me with an answer on this one) if JWs also dont eat shelfish as that is an abomination too according to the bible as well as many other things like wearing clothes woven from two diffrent cloths or something like that.
:lol: Not to my knowledge.
Our diets were never affected - the main issue was there not being much seafood in Calgary as it's quite a ways away from the sea... - and back in the late 70's/80's judging by the AWFUL clothes she dressed us in I don't think there were any restrictions there either. Apart from the restriction on good taste... Which I'm mentally scarred with... Plaid... she made me wear PLAID. *twitches*
My mum was always sensible with it (personal taste aside). :p
I
There's only one major rule:
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.
I follow it simply because I agree with it.
:smt016
Ditto, along with
Any harm you do to others you will receive back threefold.
Ditto, along with
Any harm you do to others you will receive back threefold.
I'm not overly convinced by that one. Seems similar to the Christian threat of going to Hell if you commit sins... Just a bit more immediate.
However, on the side of 'you get back what you send out', it does have some bearing. If you send out negative, you'll get negative back. Cause and effect I suppose.
:)
tomjones2
06-11-07, 07:51 PM
I obviously haven't explained what I mean't sorry. You are absolutely right. What I'm saying is that our morals - which we live by now have probably been sourced from the bible as a reference material. We can't ask the people before the bible was written cos they're dead. No doubt some pedantic herbert will argue this too :rolleyes:
You have a point, living by non-extremist religous morals is almost certainly better than living by no morals at all. We just have the luxury in the west that most of us grow up in relativley stable surrounding which allow us to form an acceptable moral code.
I swear that some of the old people when I went to church as a child were at least as old as the bible. ;)
I've only just caught up and read this thread. Back on topic, my first thought was the same as I think Biker Biggles was making very early on.
This an excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath)
"I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect."
How was an otherwise healthy (afaik) woman who has just given birth to two children been allowed to decide to die? When in the same society we won't allow a person with a painful and terminal condition with no children to choose to die?
Am I just treating the refusal of treatment as being the same as requesting a lethal treatment? In my mind, if you have the right to one, you should have the right to the other.
What do others think?
Pedro68
07-11-07, 11:26 AM
I swear that some of the old people when I went to church as a child were at least as old as the bible. ;)
Yeah but I never found a bible that wreaked of pi$$ before ;-) Lavender maybe ... but never ... mind.
I've only just caught up and read this thread. Back on topic, my first thought was the same as I think Biker Biggles was making very early on.
This an excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath)
"I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect."
How was an otherwise healthy (afaik) woman who has just given birth to two children been allowed to decide to die? When in the same society we won't allow a person with a painful and terminal condition with no children to choose to die?
Am I just treating the refusal of treatment as being the same as requesting a lethal treatment? In my mind, if you have the right to one, you should have the right to the other.
What do others think?
I think you have a point there actually ...
What makes a JW's refusal to accept a life-saving blood transfusion any different to a terminally ill patients wishes not to receive life-saving medication (euthanasia)?
Both are a refusal of treatment that would/could save their lives. Yet one is acceptable because it's backed by religion when another isn't?! I just don't get it :(
Alpinestarhero
07-11-07, 11:36 AM
Perhaps we should all form a religion where its acceptable to die with dignity, and therefore the doctors cant do anything when people have made a desicion that they no longer want to live because their condition is only going to make them worse and lead to death anyway.
Its a touchy subject, almost suicide but not quite. All I know is that if I get into a condition where I'm to become a vegatable, and I know thats my only destiny, then I should like to pass away before people can only remember me as a shadow of my former (extremly brilliant and fantastic) self
Matt
Pedrosa
07-11-07, 12:00 PM
I think joining the JW's should be compulsory.Just think of the savings to be made by the NHS by removing a blood transfusion service.*
*I accept that that particular piece of black humour might not be appreciated by everyone.*
Alpinestarhero
07-11-07, 12:04 PM
*I accept that that particular piece of black humour might not be appreciated by everyone.*
Nothing wrong with a bit of black humor :lol: But keep that one quiet, could become a new policy implemented by the goverment
Matt
licoricepizza
07-11-07, 01:06 PM
I find it hard to believe that a JW would give blood, so would she deserve it anyway, even if she wanted it? I hope the children (who have my deepest sympathies for the loss of their mother, no matter what beliefs she had) see the error of her ways and don't succumb to this nonsense in the same way.
Bob Marley refused treatment for a long time after he was diagnosed with a cancer due to his beliefs. He appears to have had a change of heart in the later stages of the illness, unfortunately once it was too late. His last words to his son were "Money can't buy life". I've always wondered what he'd meant by this.
gettin2dizzy
07-11-07, 01:16 PM
I find it hard to believe that a JW would give blood, so would she deserve it anyway, even if she wanted it?
I often think what would happen if you donated blood for them to store for your own personal use should you need it. I'd imagine the numbers of donors would go through the roof!
Well it now seems that the dad/husband is thinking about taking action after it turns out that they had a machine there that uses her own blood for transfusion, but no one there knew how to use it!!!
How much of this is true is anyones guess
Gazza77
07-11-07, 02:54 PM
You can donate your own blood before an operation if needed - depends on foresight I guess....
Well it now seems that the dad/husband is thinking about taking action after it turns out that they had a machine there that uses her own blood for transfusion, but no one there knew how to use it!!!
How much of this is true is anyones guess
isnt that called dyalasis??
How was an otherwise healthy (afaik) woman who has just given birth to two children been allowed to decide to die? When in the same society we won't allow a person with a painful and terminal condition with no children to choose to die?
Am I just treating the refusal of treatment as being the same as requesting a lethal treatment? In my mind, if you have the right to one, you should have the right to the other.
What do others think?
My understanding is that anyone can refuse treatment if they are of sound mine etc. The difference with other cases is where you chose to AID your death etc in other words take specific action similar to suicide or get someone to 'kill' you.
I suppose it could be easy to say allow euthanasia the problem is that if you do allow it what would stop a 'fed up' carer bumping someone off and claiming the patient wanted it - tricky business sadly
neio, unless there is a word spellt like that that i have not come across, but dialysis (if thats how its correctly spell :s ) is for kidney problems and that. Hooked up to a bath of fluids that are regulated - i.e. help remove waste and keep levels of chemicals in the bloody normal
Terence
07-11-07, 11:00 PM
Religon/belief is the cause of most wars and most issues in this world today.
Sums it up really.
Actually it doesn't. Saying religion causes most wars is like saying gravity causes the most deaths in people jumping off bridges.
I think joining the JW's should be compulsory.Just think of the savings to be made by the NHS by removing a blood transfusion service.*
*I accept that that particular piece of black humour might not be appreciated by everyone.*
I like you:p
I think world would be much better place without religions and their rules form 500 to 2000+ years ago.
WE DON'T need religions to be decent human beings.
Maybe we should start a debate about what good / bad religions bring and see what side wins:)
I have a blood doning appointment on Wednesday. I hope that the NHS finds a good home for my red stuff. And if maybe one day I need some, then I shall be very glad to receive it and also very glad that somebody donated it.
O+ here. Everyone assumes that because it's the most common group that therefore the NHS has plenty of it. Not true - at present it's 4.64 days supply. Scary.
http://www.blood.co.uk/pages/stocklevel.html
yorkie_chris
07-11-07, 11:54 PM
Apologies for slight derail, but when you give blood do you leave it a while before getting back on the bike? ifso how long?
oh and do they accept the red stuff from those orrible filthy smokers?
I have a blood doning appointment on Wednesday.
Me too. I hope my cold has gone by then.
gettin2dizzy
08-11-07, 07:43 AM
Me too. I hope my cold has gone by then.
Where are you going? I looked and there's nowhere in south wales :(
Chris - they make you sit down for a while and then ply you with a coffee/tea/whatever and a biscuit. Typically this bit takes about 20 - 30 mins. I hop straight back on the bike. Yes they take blood from smokers. I think I'd rather have smoky blood than none at all...
fizzwheel
08-11-07, 10:28 AM
Chris - they make you sit down for a while and then ply you with a coffee/tea/whatever and a biscuit. Typically this bit takes about 20 - 30 mins. I hop straight back on the bike. Yes they take blood from smokers. I think I'd rather have smoky blood than none at all...
I go when I can I havent been for ages though as I always seem to have a cold when the blood people are in my area.
Ed's right 20 - 30 minutes and tea and biscuits afterwards, I've never felt faint or been ill aftewards, just make sure you eat a decent meal a few hours before you go and you'll be fine.
Fist time I went I got the bus as I didnt know how I would feel I asked about riding my bike driving the car as the nurse said as long as I felt well enough to do so then there wasnt a problem.
If its your first time the nurses will keep a bit more of an eye on you to make sure theres no adverse effects, dont be put off go its I think one of the most selfless things you can do.
Amanda M
08-11-07, 10:31 AM
I usually give blood too (A-). Does anyone know how long you need to leave it after having an operation?
My blood group's hilarious...
B+
:lol:
People have had the nerve to call me a pessimist??? Pah! I say.
fizzwheel
08-11-07, 10:37 AM
I usually give blood too (A-). Does anyone know how long you need to leave it after having an operation?
I'm not sure its either 12 or 24 months I think...
Have a look on here theres bound to be more info
http://www.blood.co.uk/index.html
I'm not sure its either 12 or 24 months I think...
Have a look on here theres bound to be more info
http://www.blood.co.uk/index.html
Its 12 months its the same if you've just had a tattoo as well
A+ for me i go when i can i usually have low blood pressure and i've had 3 ops in the last 3 years
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