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Project: Garage Find
So about 18 months ago I decided what I really needed was another bike in the garage and set about finding a project. I had heard the words "Barn Find" a lot, its something that I think would be interesting to do. When I was living in the countryside I did ask around a bit but with no luck. Looking for a bit of a fixer-up project I found an interesting Italian and an old Brit that hadn't been used for a while "Garage Finds". Negotiations began but ultimately someone else beat me to them.
I was chatting to friend at work, a RC8 rider (not of this parish) about my search and he told me he had a mate that used to ride and might still have a bike somewhere, it would be a crashed but original model Fireblade. So a few emails went back and forth between them about the bike and then I was introduced. The bike in question was not a Fireblade, that went to the great scrapyard in the sky. The bike in his garage was the bike he used before the Fireblade and before he gave up biking. He always intended to do something with it, but never got round to it. The information I had on it was basic. A Yamaha TZR250 on a R reg. Now I've always had a soft spot for the TZR and a quick calculation with my limited knowledge put it at a 3XV or at worse a 3MA model. In my opinion the 3XV model, the VTwin, is one of the best looking bikes ever made. The 3MA is a reverse cylinder engined model and is also quite good looking. They also made the 2MA and 1KT models the 2MA is the official UK import, the 1KT being the same but the Japanese home market model. Both are ugly. So me and Stretchie turn up with a trailer and the garage door is opened. Now when I said the information was basic, it was also slightly wrong. Yes it was a Yamaha TZR250 but it was on a F reg and it was a 2MA. Disappointing. But the bike was duly loaded and driven down the M4 to BaP's for temporary storage. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0320-00207.jpg The story of the bike was it was the previous owners first bike and had been well used. The front fairings were lost after he found the bulkhead of a transit van. Though thats not the only time it had found the floor, it had been repaired and continued service until the rider upgraded to a Fireblade. He parked the TZR in the garage with the intention of doing something with it at a future date, but as the years rolled on nothing happened but the occasional start up. He eventually wrote the Blade off and decided not to ride anymore, and interest in the old TZR faded so that the occasional start stopped and it sat there never to see the light of day. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0320-00208.jpg It was a couple of months before I saw it again due to housing issues but when I did I could see its potential. I decided that a bit of fresh petrol and some air in the tyres would have it though an MOT in a flash. No not really, the bike hadn't been used since 1994 or at least that was its last tax disc. It had crash damage on both sides an interesting alarm was adorning the rear of the loom and the fairing that was on it was held together with wood screws. The brakes surprisingly still operated slightly but the forks are pitted. Sitting on it the suspension at the rear feels non existent. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0320-00206.jpg So my plan is simple. Restore it, reuse what I can, replace what I can't. Get it back on the road. I'm going to make a few subtle modifications to it but nothing serious, I don't plan on a big bore or changing the swing arm or covering the fairings in fur. I want it to be a restored TZR250 2MA and any help or advise would be gratefully received. Let just hope I haven't taken on to big a project... |
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It's worth it though. I loved mine for the very short time I had it. Sooo much fun. I'd have another |
Re: Project: Garage Find
Great find. Looks like you got your work cut out there mate.
You know you can rely on me to answer any difficult technical questions ;-). Give me a shout if you need a hand, I have my own hammer and multi meter now. |
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Always a fan of projects / builds, good luck, I'll be watching for sure!
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That should be an easy enough restoration, it's a relatively simple machine and parts are still easily obtained. There are a few firms that specialise in the whole LC/PV range and thus all the likely faults you'll find are well known, and any services needed are pretty easy to come by.
As to how much work it will be that's a question of how original and/or how well finished you'd like it to be. Fun bikes too - you'll have a giggle when it's running :D. |
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As SS says, most parts are reasonably available. I suspect finding any missing bodywork will be the biggest challenge.
I may still have one or two left over 2MA parts lost in the garage. I'll have a root (when the weather improves a little). They're left over from the last TZR my wife owned: We still regret selling it, although not buying the SV that replaced it of course! (BTW, if you get fed up and want to get rid, or if you want to move it on when you finish, can I have first refusal?) |
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You wern't joking when we spoke about it Squirrel. Second Dibs on it :)
Anyways, this bunch of petrol heads might be able to help http://www.ardracing.com/tzr.html#Lb6MbdPieUii (the owner is a renound stroker tuner and racer). |
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Those are great little bikes. A friend of mine has not long ago finished his shoestring of a rebuild and it's a little cracker!
The only thing that has let him down to date was the water pump O-ring that seals the pump (in the r/h casing) from the sump. It must've gone hard or brittle with old age and was letting water into the clutch/gearbox. Good find! |
Re: Project: Garage Find
Looking forward to seeing this build. :) My neighbour (old boy) has an 80s trail bike (non road legal) of some description in his shed. Never seen it, and not been interested in buying it since I wouldn't be able to ride it on the road, but these kind of threads keep tempting me to go and find out about it.
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Yes! Subscribed!
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Cheers for the positive comments guys, I thought this would interest some of you.
Ruffy, if you do find anything let me know as it might be on the list. |
Re: Project: Garage Find
While it was sitting in my garage for months on end the more I looked at it the more I wanted to ride it. So I spent some time tracking down parts. It took me 4 months to get a set of plastics. Traveled to London one night to pick them up, a full set, no real damage but in need of paint. I even bought two "rust free" tanks on eBay, but more on that later.
Occasionally I would move it around a bit to see what I could spot on it that was in need. Basically the obvious missing fairings needed sorting. The handlebars, leavers and switch gear had crash damage, plus there was a nice dent in the tank. The wiring was a mess the more I looked at it. The throttle was stuck as was the fuel tap and the chain would flap in the wind. Forks were pitted so I presume the seals are gone, and the brakes need a strip and rebuild. Other than that it would be consumables. There were two keys for the bike, the seat and ignition were on one, the tank on the other. Putting the key in the ignition was much like throwing a pasty up Park Street so for that reason and the fact I feel two keys would let the bike down a replacement lockset went on the list. The list was getting longer. Anyway at some point and I don't know when exactly I made the decision to go the full distance on it and fully strip it down to powdercoat the frame and build it back up from there. So the strip down begins. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01049.jpg Tank off reviled the dirt on the inside of the frame and on the engine, plus the overall condition of the bike. It also showed how small the bike is. the amount of space under there is amazing. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01066.jpg Next it was the air box. The screws holding the lid on did their best to delay me and at one point thought that I wouldn't get them to cooperate. But in the end they relented and I was presented with a very clean air filter. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01067.jpg That promptly disintegrated as soon as I touched it... Is this an omen? |
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No, it's completely and utterly normal, thus not signifying anything bad, (or, I suppose, good), about your 'new' bike.
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Awesomeness :smt023
I remember your interest in the cost of 2 stroke engine rebuild kits. All now becomes clear. :D Have fun. |
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Well it is worrying when the first thing you touch falls apart in you hands. But having cleared off the filer (new one going on the list) the inside of the air box looks quite clean.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01068.jpg Can't say the rest of the bike is that clean once the box was removed. It actually took me 5 minutes to locate the screws for the air box clips under that amount of dirt and grime. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01070.jpg The plan now is to drop the engine out. So first remove the exhausts. Fearing the worse from my experience with SV front down pipes I was expecting the header mounting bolts to be seized or worse. Imagine my surprise when they came off so easily. I think it might have something to do with the tar that was coating them. I suspect the exhaust gaskets may have been leaking. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01055.jpg However the rear mounting bolt did complain and that had to be cut off. The exhaust is only actually held on with 3 bolts 2 in the front 1 in the rear. And the rear mount is also a rubber damper. I expect that they didn't look like mine do now back in 1987. A pair are also now on the list. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01065.jpg Once the exhausts were off I could get a better look at them. They are standard exhausts. But I think they have had a hard time. The cans have been wrapped in metal that has been tack welded on. I presume this was to hide crash damage. As for the header section, it has been repaired at some point. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01061.jpg Now as I am aiming for a standard machine I need to think about what to do with these pipes. If they are still available from Yamaha I think they might be a little on the expensive side. As are some aftermarket pipes I've seen, though they will need rejeting no doubt. But these pipes might also be expensive to repair. Alas I have some time to decide what to do with them as they are near the last things that need putting back on the bike, but if anyone has any suggestions feel free. |
Re: Project: Garage Find
The exhaust gaskets on LC/PV always leak, that's just how it is - the sun comes up in the east, sets in the west and LC exhausts are always dribbling 2T down the front of the motor. Get used to it.
These are the things set in stone by - insert your deity of choice here - eternal verities that are reassuringly certain. The pipes are rubber mounted as the motor is on fairly sloppy rubber mounts and the exhausts move a surprising amount, sloppy is good here - too securely fitted and the pipes can crack. Odd repair to the front pipes, being a stinkwheel the pipes neverevereverever rot through, (lots of lovely oil in there, worse when the pump is set wrong - which is common), so that's a bit of a mystery, crash damage perhaps? |
Re: Project: Garage Find
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Chris |
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As for the repair, possible crash damage. I know its been down the road but its an odd place to have it. But thinking about it I don't remember seeing anything on the other side as you would think if its our road salt and rust I would expect to see something on the other side to match. Strange... Quote:
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Will save you some of hundreds of pictures I'm taking to assist on reassembly but here are some highlights as it were:
To take the engine out which is the next target it is time to remove anything that connects to the engine. And in this case its the power valve pulleys first on the list. The cables were seized but replacements are to be sourced. Under the cover the seal looks good but like the rest of the bike there is a bit of dirt and rust in there. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01080.jpg However not all is bad under the covers as this is a very clean looking oil pump. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01078.jpg Drained the gear box oil which actually looked overfilled in the sight glass. Maybe this was intentional before it was parked up. Then it was draining the coolant. The coolant looked ok actually, so I think the water pump seals are still intact or at least were when the engine was last used. However the expansion tank was empty bar some sludge. Taking the radiator off was fairly straight forward. It looks in good condition however so far no joy in removing the guard. Might look at getting it cleaned up or painted before it goes back on, so I'm open to suggestions on the approach here? http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1229-01083.jpg Then the carbs. Took the throttle cable off of the throttle tube and traced it back to a junction box that feeds the two carbs, the power valve, and the oil pump. Taking the the cables off of the power valve servo looked like it was going to be a bit of a pain so I just removed the servo. Well it needs to come off anyway. And then it was taking the carbs off. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01093.jpg They don't look to bad a first but then you get to have a closer look at them. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01094.jpg Hopefully these will clean up. But I'm not disassembling them any further at the moment. I think the plan is to take the engine out next then strip the frame down. Get that painted and reassembled before working on the engine and the carbs before doing the final assembly with the fairings. Well thats the plan anyway... |
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Sid's right - you don't fit LC/PV exhausts, you hang them. |
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If only someone would pull his finger out and sort out that blast cabinet
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oohhh sub'd
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So to take the engine out...
Actually quite a simple operation. The engine is held to the frame by a rear mounting bolt and an engine cradle frame. So after locating the bolts many of which were covered by grease/ oil/ dirt/ grime I loosened them all off before removing the cradle. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01107.jpg With the cradle off I supported the engine with a jack before removing the rear bolt balancing the engine against the frame and jack. And yes the clutch cover needs replacing. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01109.jpg After that it was just a simple case of lifting the engine onto the bench. The best part was the weight, compared to an SV lump this TZR weighs next to nothing I could practically juggle with it. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01110.jpg However there is a slight issue. The generator cover looks warped as I'm fairly sure I shouldn't be able to see the alternator. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01115.jpg |
Re: Project: Garage Find
I do like the "medium" grade of hammer on show in those pics, if you were working on my XJ of similar vintage you would need at least "coarse" maybe even "extra coarse" :-P
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Ah f*ck it!!! http://berlin.iaaf.org/mm/photo/comp...3_full-lnd.jpg |
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No, you shouldn't be able to the see the rotor. That said it may not be that tragic, there are seals on both ends of the crank, ( and in the middle too - two stroke - primary compression), so the rotor runs dry.
There should be a gasket there which may not be fitted/fitted properly or perhaps damaged/incomplete, (can't see clearly in pic), even if the cover is a bit wonky you should be able to lap it enough to make it hold a nice fat gasket - no oil in there to leak out means it doesn't need to clamp up that well to be OK. |
Re: Project: Garage Find
I thought the rotor would run dry, but I wouldn't want anything to get in there and I hope rust hasn't found a home on it over the years. Checked the parts diagram and there isn't actually a gasket for it. However I think I bought a replacement for it as I remember it didn't look that smart, though I've just rummaged through the box of spares I have and can't find it at the moment...
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Now the engine is out, its a simple task of just unbolting a couple of other little bits. Or is it? Well actually yes. Wasn't to bad, one screw on the chain guard decided it wasn't going to play ball so I cut that off but then couldn't get any grip on the remaining shaft so that remains.
The only other bolts that protested movement were the 4 that held the pillion peg brackets on. All 4 were rusted so much the heads just rounded at the suggestion of a tool. I even tried turning the lights out so they couldn't see me approaching but to no avail. All were cut off and then the studs were easily turned out. The only down side is I now need 2 new pillion peg brackets. Eventually the bike looked like this: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0109-01179.jpg Coming back to the alarm and the loom. It appears to be some sort of home wiring attempt, not the prettiest and has left a spaghetti mess at the rear. I think that to activate it you needed to flick a switch under the seat, thats about it really as an additional bit of security, an extra kill switch. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01148.jpg But looking at how it attached to the loom I think I could unwire it quite easily as it appears only to connect to one wire that goes to the CDI. But it looks that there are some additional signs of repair. The indicator fuse has been bypassed from the fuse box to a separate in-line fuse. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01151.jpg But there was worse at the front. The headlight connector may have been removed somewhat aggressively in the past. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01130.jpg And there were some other problems with wires that went nowhere and others that were missing. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01131.jpg So if anyone knows where I can get a replacement loom from do let me know as it would appear that Yamaha can no longer supply me with one. |
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We got a replacement loom for our 1981 XJ550 by doing a parts search on line. What came through was a good condition used item that has not been modified. The cost was about £20 including postage. That was a year ago, it remains sat on the bike and not yet wired in! :D
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There is an ebay seller in Greece selling a*lot* of NOS Yamaha parts. It might be worth emailing them to see if they can have a look. They came up trumps with my rear light panel on my FZR400RR. The datestamp on the part was 1989!
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Motomatakos Chris |
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I'm one of his best customers... But unfortunately no wiring loom.
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Re: Project: Garage Find
There might be a problem.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...30-01136-1.jpg My heart sank when I noticed the metal tab over the lockstop. It sank further when I spotted the lump of weld on the lower yoke. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1230-01138.jpg I've seen this once before. The tab and weld is a quick fix to a broken lockstop. I've mulled this over for a couple of days then decided the only way to progress is to see whats under it... http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1231-01156.jpg Well the damage matches with the little history I have of it and the other signs on the bike. It appears that in a crash the bottom yoke made somewhat of an impact on the frames lockstop. And to repair the damage a quick fix of a metal tab and a lump of weld was used. The wear to the tab indicates that it was successful as I can only assume from that the bike was continued to be used after. I stuck a tank back on it and did a quick side to side with the bars and I don't see there being a problem getting an MOT. So I took the tab off. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0120-01192.jpg And this is what I'm left with. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0120-01190.jpg It looks like the bottom of the lockstop is dented in and up. I don't think its as bad as it might first appear due to the angle of the photograph, but that needs fixing as does the bottom yoke. |
Re: Project: Garage Find
It's not a big problem. Flatten off the stop on the frame and add weld to the yoke - easier to weld that. It doesn't matter which side of the meeting face has extra material on it, but make sure the faces meet square and flat - with as much area as possible - and dress them off until it stops in the right place.
At the moment the lug on the yoke has a pronounced point on it, that will make a dent in the frame very easily, as it is much softer material, which is why that steel plate has been added I suspect. |
Re: Project: Garage Find
While I decide how to fix the lockstop, which has been suggested via the TZR forum may have been fitted at the factory, I can carry on with other jobs. The first is to ready the frame for Powder Coat.
To do that I need to remove the Deltabox frame cover. After seeking some advise I warmed the cover with a heat gun and carefully slipped a Stanley knife blade under one of the edges. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0119-01187.jpg Then keeping some heat on it I worked the knife around the plate until finally it came off. I was careful to keep the heat on and would stop trying to lift the plate when it felt as if it was hardening again. When that happened I would stop with the knife and get the heat back on it. And I did this without twisting the knife or lifting it to much in one go and in the end... http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0119-01189.jpg It came off leaving just some sticky back plastic on the frame. After that I swapped to the other side and removed that one to. All I need to do now is clean the plate up. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0119-01188.jpg |
Re: Project: Garage Find
Pretty common to swap fuses to spade connectors and blade fuses rather than the round fuses. The terminals for the round fuses snap off.
Probably worth doing that, hide an aftermarket fusebox under there easy enough I reckon. |
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That may explain it then. Looking in more detail the indicator fuse holder appears to be snapped on one side. However I would have tried a more elegant solution that what is there.
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Re: Project: Garage Find
I've also taken the forks off.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...psaea5df36.jpg And apart. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0120-01202.jpg The lowers are going for powder coating and while the seals were intact which surprised me the stanchions are a little pitted. I think they are more or less clear on the area of travel but they don't look pretty elsewhere so thats the main reason for splitting them. The oil was pretty nasty as expected. The dust seals are scrap, one had rusted apart. One of the damper rods was missing a circlip so that goes on the list, but what confused me the most was the white damper rod seat or oil lock that was on one of the stanchions and not the other. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0120-01204.jpg Eventually I discovered the missing one buried in sludge stuck in its fork lower. So to get that out I transfered it to the stanchion by reinserting and apply a little percussive force so the damper rod seat was more firmly stuck in the stanchion before separating the forks again. Then to relieve the damper rod seat from the stanchion I reinserted the damper rod and a broom handle into the stanchion. Giving this set up a little gravity assisted tap the broom handle hit the damper rod that is to big to fit though the damper rod seat and so released the seat from the stanchion. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...0122-01205.jpg The stanchions have been wrapped up and sent off to Pitted Forks for re-chroming. The only downside to that is there is a 6 week lead time so if things progress then I may have to resort to Plan B to temporarily suspend the bike... |
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