Clutchless Gear change

Could someone confirm the mechanics of this?
Sid where are you... Is it good or bad?

Originally Posted by jonboy

However I'm not convinced that on the road, even riding fast, that it's a necessary technique - a small dab of clutch makes such a difference to the smoothness of the change and is surely mechanically a little more sympathetic..

I'll argue that one with you Greg. My changes are much smoother without the aid of a clutch. I sometimes go from 1st to 2nd with a bit of help from my left hand, but my "style" of riding is that I just "kick & go" from 2nd to top.

In fact, many people have commented on the smoothness of my gear changes on the videos I have done, all of which exclude the clutch. Obviously what works for one doesn't work for everybody.

As for the wear, well I guess that's possible, but like I said, it's never affected any of my bikes, and that GSXR must be getting close to 30k now, and Greeno's not had any gearbox problems that I'm aware of.

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Originally Posted by Grinch

Could someone confirm the mechanics of this?
Sid where are you... Is it good or bad?

A v. experienced mechanic I talked to about it advised against it. He said any slight benefit of reduced clutch wear is negated by wear/damage to the dogs of the gears, which of course, are far more spectacular when they fail. I said that I'd read if it was done right it didn't do any damage, he reckoned it'd need to be done near-perfectly in order for it to not have some effect on the gears.

to clutchless upshift, put slight pressure on shifter, roll back on throttle ever so lightly, this will unload tranny, the pressure of your foot will pop it right into the next gear


using clutch to shift will NOT make clutch wear any faster,

clutchless shifts are not smoother, if they are for you, you don't know how to properly use a clutch

clutchless downshifting is a little trickier, but similar, instead of rolling off throttle, you have to give is a "little" blip

it's a good skill to be able to clutchless shift (as I found out a couple weeks ago) in the event you break a clutch cable, especially the clutchless downshifting

there is no advantage to clutchless shifting, in a drag race in might give you a .05second advantage, or it might not

don't be afraid to slip clutch, SV has wet clutches and it won't hurt a wet clutch

clutchless shifting will not hurt a SV transmission, it's a constant mesh transmission, which is the reason you can so easily clutchless shift

Guys, (sorry and girls)

This is very very simple, clutchless up changes will not do any harm to your gearbox, if performed well. As most experienced readers will tell you, they are best for getting a move on, because you spend more time on the gas. Downchanges are really not advised. As someone said the main reason being that you can feed the clutch in and feel how much the engine braking is going to effect the back wheel traction.

As far as i'm aware clutchless up shifting does not cause any extra wear.

I only really do it when i'm riding at a faster pace though

Is there any real point to this for road riding? Or is it like knee-down antics? Great for the track but no real use for the road. I'm not having a dig, I really want to know. My friend says my gear changes are lightning quick yet still smooth so I've never seen the point. He does it all the time and I was once on the back of his gixxer 750, let me tell you clutchless felt and sounded bad..........vroooom, grind, bang, vrooooooom. Poor gearbox.

i used to always shift up the box without the clutch on IL4's but i find the sv smoother with the clutch, and evan using the clutch i aint no turtle.

Originally Posted by longer

Guys, (sorry and girls)

This is very very simple, clutchless up changes will not do any harm to your gearbox, if performed well.

I'm going to suggest that's the case but only if they're performed perfectly.


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[Sid Squid]

Originally Posted by Grinch

Could someone confirm the mechanics of this?
Sid where are you... Is it good or bad?

Clutchless changes...good or bad? Well I can tell you, categorically, right now:

It depends...mainly on the specific technique used.

A well executed clutchless change puts no more wear/stress/load on anything, and clearly puts less wear on the clutch, 'cos you didn't use it.

Upchanges:

There are several ways to do it, all essentially similar, differing only in detail and by the advantage they may give, (if you get it right that is).

Fastest change, used as if you're on a timed quarter, (ie drag racing):
Preload the lever firmly, roll out the throttle *just* enough for the dogs to be unloaded and the change to occur. With practice (ie lots of time on the strip), this can be a lightning fast change, the gear will go through very quickly, the time taken from on, to off, to on throttle is where the practice/skill lies, the further out you roll the throttle the longer it takes, the less you roll it out the harder the gear change is which takes longer too.
Downside: Wear, on everything, forks/grooves/pins/drum/dogs the lot, can be worth lots of time though, (relatively speaking, in a quick quarter), that said, as long as you don't make a constant habit of it, you won't break anything that quickly.

Lazy change, changing gear smoooooothly and unhurriedly just exactly like you would with the clutch, only...without:
Roll throttle out, lift gear lever, roll throttle back in again. If you do it right this change can be smoother than a cashmere codpiece, what you're looking for is for there to be no 'jerk' in the drive, bit of practice though and anyone can do it, the trick, (if there is one), is to only drop the throttle out to the point at which you would need it to be so that in the next gear you would neither be accelerating or decelerating from the speed at which you initiated the change, thus allows all the bits and pieces to be revolving at as near the same speed as possible thus they mesh together as imperceptibly as possible.
Downside: None, if you get it right, which isn't hard. Won't win you any drag races though.

Downchanges, Bit different this, similar principle to lazy change, that is: Smooooth.

First some things to know:
No matter what gear you're in, when the engine isn't running the speed of everything is nil, (yeah I know, blindingly bloody obvious, but hold that thought), that is; all the same speed. Using convenient figures, say that at 10,000rpm 1st gear makes the output shaft of the gearbox revolve at 1000rpm, 2nd 2000rpm, 3rd 3000rpm etc. Knowing this it can easily be seen that the faster the engine speed is, the further apart, relatively speaking, the speeds of the gearbox parts are. At 10,000rpm the relative speeds are 1000rpm apart, at 5000rpm 500rpm apart, at tickover (say 1000rpm, easy numbers see? I like that), the relative speeds only differ by 100rpm.

A smooth change occurs when the various bits that need to mesh are revolving at as similar speeds as is possible, in practice the slowest that you can run the engine is tickover, if you were to change down clutchless at as close to tickover as possible the relative parts would be as best speed matched as is possible. If you were to add the slightest smidgeon of throttle just as you go to change, this would unload the 'box and make the change easier, also it would speed the drive into the gearbox up a bit, such that it would be running at the slightly higher speed that the lower gear would demand to run at the same speed, just as in the the lazy change above.
Downside: Not easy to get right, and basically no advantage anyway, save for a useful technique to have when the clutch cable breaks at an inconvenient time, I have done several hundred miles like this, getting neutral while still rolling makes all the difference.