£5 billion

[_Stretchie_]

Originally Posted by Baph

Oh yea, and it'll still be as insecure as hell.

Could it do with a cuddle and a re-affirming chuck on the chin

What nearly concerns me is that whilst most people here are old enough to find this worrying, for the next generation, they won't think twice about it. Kids in schools now use swipe ID cards to verify their identity, pay for school dinners and grant them access to rooms they are entitled to use. In America, 60% of parents are in favour of embedded RFID within school uniforms to track children's movements. Ostensibly to determine their location to ensure their safety, but of course, it can also be used to check for truancy and validating "alibis" for the sort of pranks all school kids commit. Even if we resist this, it's the current generation of kids, who will grow up with this at school who will consider it perfectly natural who won't object to it as adults who will subsequently let it in.

I was at the european branch of the world's biggest security conference earlier this year and a couple of the visionaries there said that ID cards would only be a temporary measure. Face recognition is getting so good that within the decade we will have a human face equivalent of ANPR that will do the vast majority of "spotting" and people will only be required to detain/verify those the computer spots. At airports, you will be ID'd and security checked by camera as you wait in line to check in, in many cases passporting will be a 2 second formality rather than principle means of identification.

You can sell people this sort of thing two ways, one is obvious and gets a lot of press; "security". The other, which in a way is far more insidious, is "convenience". If you're generally law abiding (or like me, the state/your employer already has your biometrics), you don't have much do lose by surrendering your privacy in this respect. Imagine you can pay in tescos by simply walking through the checkout with your shopping in your bags, with the amount calculated by RFID chips in food packaging, payment taken from your RFID credit card in your wallet (which can stay in your pocket) and no need for a pin/signature as your face captured by CCTV is used to verify your identity. Real Gattaca type stuff. Is your privacy worth being stuck behind some granny ineptly fumbling with a chip and pin device? Would you be tempted to forgoe privacy if it meant you didn't have to deal with that?

[Biker Biggles]

You cant stop this technology or "uninvent" it,so we should really be pushing for constitutional safeguards to prevent its misuse.We need legislation to stop information being stored unless those who wish to do so provide overiding good reason for it,and we need to prevent information being passed on from those who have it to anyone else.There should be a legal presumtion of personal privacy whereas at present the opposite seems to be the case.

I am sure I saw / read / heard somewhere that they wouldn't be compulsary...but...

When it comes to you needing a bank account / passport / drivers licence / loan / mortgage / credit card I bet the ONLY valid proof of ID accepted will be the ID card. Watch this space.

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

You cant stop this technology or "uninvent" it,so we should really be pushing for constitutional safeguards to prevent its misuse.We need legislation to stop information being stored unless those who wish to do so provide overiding good reason for it,and we need to prevent information being passed on from those who have it to anyone else.There should be a legal presumtion of personal privacy whereas at present the opposite seems to be the case.

Hahahaahhahahahahahhahahaha,

Hahahaahhahahahahahhahahaha,

Hahahaahhahahahahahhahahaha.











Hahahaahhahahahahahhahahaha.

You're right of course, but we all know that any safe guards won't be implemented with any form of competence.

Originally Posted by Baph

Oh yea, and it'll still be as insecure as hell.

Playtime anyone?

soulkiss was saying how it'd be really insecure too

[Biker Biggles]

Quite so,but Im also suggesting that it becomes a criminal offense to obtain,store or pass on information about people unless you have a bloody good reason.That would mean any information obtained for a certain purpose would have to be destroyed as soon as the purpose no longer existed or it had been completed.No more databases full of private bumph just in case someone wants to know something about you.
The side effect would be that the government could no longer accidently lose this stuff,because it would all have been destroyed.In theory at least.
It wont happen because this information is power,and they dont give that away without a fight.

just a thought, but does anyone want to try marrying up this thread with the one on Baby P, where there were tales of public services not having joint access to records and seeing the whole the story.....

(and if anyone really thinks public servants have got the time and money to use the ID system for watching the general public's every move, try applying for one of the jobs to do just that)

Originally Posted by CoolGirl

just a thought, but does anyone want to try marrying up this thread with the one on Baby P, where there were tales of public services not having joint access to records and seeing the whole the story.....

You sound like a government spokeswoman. Hording data 'just in case' is a rubbish argument, and not having it is a poor excuse for incompetence.

[northwind]

Is anyone actualyl in favour of the ID cards at all? I mean, I'm against it as a point of principle as are many people, and also I'm against it because it's a bad standard, and also I'm against it because it's so absurdly overpriced. I get 3/3, but it seems like practically everyone in the country will notch up at least 1/3. Apart from people who think it'll stop terrorism I suppose.

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

Quite so,but Im also suggesting that it becomes a criminal offense to obtain,store or pass on information about people unless you have a bloody good reason.That would mean any information obtained for a certain purpose would have to be destroyed as soon as the purpose no longer existed or it had been completed.No more databases full of private bumph just in case someone wants to know something about you.

Like some sort of Data Protection Act