Alternative vote

I disagree with AV, why should someone have two attempts at selecting someone to govern? You make your single choice and then it counts just as much as anyone's vote.

As far as I am aware AV does not address the issue of proportional representation on a national level which I believe is the real issue.

I have just had a quick look at the electoral reform website and it says one of the cases for AV is:

'It penalises extremist parties, who are unlikely to gain many second-preference votes.'

No it does not!!! My uneducated assumption in this case would be that people would vote for a more 'reasonable' party as their first choice and then take a chance with their second choice.

I will be voting No in case you couldn't guess.

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

And if first past the post is so good - why is David Cameron leader of the Conservative Party? Because he came in second in the first round of votes.

Indeed... perhaps that is proof that FPTP is indeed better and should be used at the party level? Certainly as far as Labour go they should have used FPTP so that idiot Ed Miliband did not take over the party... his brother was the only person that would have stood any chance at getting me to vote for labour again.

edit: this bit was to Ed:

Indeed, and I'll certainly bow to your schedule and look forward to your thoughts. I would add that we do have several other examples of it's use, including presidential elections in Ireland & India, many states in the US, many mayoral elections and of all things, the Oscars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant...ing#Global_use

edit: and to ravingdavis:

On the extremist party bit I'm seeing some mixed messages, I can certainly see your point and share your fear that many people would go mainstream on a first preference and a bit whacky on a second. But then I'm seeing that the BNP are actively campaigning for a no to AV vote - http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/why-bnp-w...-av-referendum

[Bri w]

If Australia is an example of AV failing, why is it one of the few countries in the world with a growing economy?

Its not about the form voting takes, its about having the right people doing the right things. Both the Conservatives and Labour have some great ideas, and some great people but unfortunately they get lost in the political circus of oneupmanship.

Aaaarrrrgghh! I said I'd stay out of this thread

[Biker Biggles]

Yes for me.Not because AV is a brilliant idea but more to keep power out of the hands of the usual suspects who have let us down so badly for as long as I can remember.
I have been to Fiji,Papua New Guinea and Australia,and loved all of them so no problems there.

Originally Posted by Bri w

If Australia is an example of AV failing, why is it one of the few countries in the world with a growing economy?

Its not about the form voting takes, its about having the right people doing the right things. Both the Conservatives and Labour have some great ideas, and some great people but unfortunately they get lost in the political circus of oneupmanship.

Aaaarrrrgghh! I said I'd stay out of this thread

There can be no escape...

I'm very much with you on this. I think people's fear is that AV or, more to the point, anything other than first past the post, will give undue power to minority parties, particularly the Lib Dems. I think the current coalition has shown that while the Lib Dems have had influence they've been pretty harshly bent over and violated on several core principles and have resulted in having about as much influence as can be expected given their share of the vote. This is very much a Conservative government albeit one slightly tempered by lib dem partners.

Similarly I'd think it's given the opposition Labour party some power too now that they have the much easier task of convincing wobbling lib dem MPs to support their motions rather than breakaway tories, they can better form an effective opposition. Democracy always needs an effective opposition and I think too often in the past oppositions (of all flavours) have ended up powerless to do anything but snipe from the sidelines for four or five years.

From a personal perspective I make no bones about hating the current government, they're making Thatcher look like a left wing liberal softie and the Lib Dems have given way far too much for my liking. But, from a democratic standpoint I think we can say the current coalition is closer to being a representative government than we've had for a long time. The party with 36% of the votes (306 seats) gets to drive, the party with 23% of the votes (57 seats) gets to sit in the passenger seat and very occasionally say "you're going the wrong way" and the party with 29% of the votes (258 seats) gets to sit in the back seat and is far more empowered to repeatedly kick the driver in the backside than any opposition has been able to do for a long time.

If systems other than first past the post result in more coalitions and taking on board of a wider viewpoint from all sides then I'm kinda seeing this as a good thing. One of the worst abuses of power I saw in the last 10 years was the way deeply unpopular policies were forced through on the power of a majority and strong party whips and only saw effective opposition scrutiny when they reached the (ironically unelected) house of lords.

[TamSV]

I thought I'd bump this one as it's getting closer to decision time.

I'm genuinely not sure which way I'll go. The campaigns for both "Yes" and "No" have been disappointing - gross exaggeration from one and scaremongering nonsense about the BNP/hung parliaments from the other.

My problem is I don't like either FPTP or AV. I'd prefer a system of Proportional Representation that produces a Parliament that better reflects the people it serves.

AV is (possibly) more proportional at a constituency level but no better than FPTP nationally. I don't think it would change results much and I don't believe it would produce more hung parliaments. We'd still have Governments with minority support getting huge majorities.

So, logically I should vote against AV as it's no better than FPTP but is a bit more complicated and therefore likely to be costlier. On the other hand, I have a problem casting a vote in support of FPTP.

So, even though AV stinks, I might hold my breath and vote for it in the hope that it's a baby-step towards PR.

Anyone else in the "none of the above" camp?

[SoulKiss]

To sum things up

I have never voted in my life. I am now 26. Until my views change, I'll probably still not vote!

Why? Ignorance for lack of a better word. Fear of choosing the wrong party.

I start reading about different parties and how they vow to change things. I do not know which is better. How one semingly promising idea can actually affect many other things that make it a really, really bad idea. For example Party A says we'll cut Corporation Tax to 10%. I think its great, but it would probably affect other areas becuase the shortfall is made up elsewhere.

Party X vows this, Party Y vows that. From what I can make out no party ever comes through with most of the stuff they vow to do anyway. I am also of the belief that the majority of politians that have the power to do anything are greedy fockers with self preservation and interests at heart. Cynical much.

I am really, really, disinterested in Politics. I know I shouldnt be as it affects my life and that of my children, my business, etc. Still, there is so many conflicting views out there I dont know which one to listen to.

So I choose the easy route and don't vote. That way I cant make the wrong choice!

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

To sum things up

LOL. But it doesn't work. The Green Man drops out and you look at the second choices of the others. Their first choice votes for beer end up being disregarded and you still end up with Coffee.

Proportional representation, on the other hand, gives you three quarters of a pint and an espresso. Nice!