Why do people get restricted licenses?

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Better start digging him up and reviving him then. Getting a conviction quashed 45 years after the event is a bit crap. People get convicted of aiding and abetting every day - I used an extreme example to show just how far the law will go.

Ok, a more recent case. Raoul Moat's accomplices:

Karl Ness, 26, was given three concurrent life sentences totaling a minimum tariff of 40 years for the murder of Christopher Brown, conspiracy to murder and the attempted murder of PC David Rathband. His friend Qhurum Awan got two concurrent life sentences for conspiracy to murder and the attempted murder of PC David Rathband and will serve at least 20 years in jail. Both men were also sentenced to seven years for robbery and Ness was given five years for a firearms offence. Ness, from Dudley in North Tyneside, was with Moat on the night he shot his ex-girlfriend Samantha Stobbart and killed her new boyfriend Chris Brown - who he believed was a policeman.

Neither of these men actually killed anyone themselves, but they are both serving life for effectively aiding and abetting.

Loz, the reason behind that is because aiding and abetting murder/conspiracy to murder is treated AS murder by the courts if someone has been killed.

I don't know the law re you selling a bike to someone so I won't comment on that but I think maybe the lads would appreciate a similar offence to what you are suggesting, not murder.....

[TamSV]

The licence conviction code is LC22 - Aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence. 3-6 points.

Whether it would stick in those circumstances I don't know, but I wouldn't blame a dealer for avoiding the possibility of a problem.

For a private seller I can't see it being a problem for you if someone buys your bike and doesn't have the correct licence. If you let them test drive and they don't have a licence you could be on shakier ground.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

This is very interesting. I thought the laws were homologated across Europe now, many countries have actually changed their license categories (A, A2, B, etc) and adopted pink Euro photocards to be the same as the rest of Europe (except the French who have stayed the same as for what I can figure out it's actually their license system the rest of Europe has adopted).

Then since then things like the 3 part test (Mod1, Mod2, etc) and the 33bhp laws, have been introduced, and I thought those were European directives that we had no choice but to comply with.

So if Spain is introducing different laws, is this not the case?

In Spain, what is the law on driving with a non-EU license? Here it is OK for one year or permanent residence, then you have to get an EU license. I'm particularly interested in a friend riding a big bike in Portugal, on a Mexican motorcylce license. I can't find an answer on it on t'interweb (if I could read Portugese it might help) so I have assumed that it's the same across Europe as we all now have the same licenses.

Spain have only introduced what is supposed to be a unified approach throughout the EU. I believe they introduced it long before other countries because of the fatality rates here. One advantage over the current setup is the increase in the BHP to 47. As already stated, only bikes with a maximum of 94bhp can be restricted, so it's goodbye to GSXR's and R6's etc. Probably good news for SV650 sales though. There is also a power to weight calculation involved, but in general terms up to 94bhp can be restricted. Even some of the driving schools can't get their heads around the new regulations, and my son had to explain it to them.

I don't know about non EU licences - my Spanish is reasonable but not good enough with legal matters. I will post if I can discover more.

Prior to the introduction of the EU License we used and as far as I am aware still have an International Driving License,Green Card Insurance,Bail Bonds and Carnie do Passage,some countries will accept this to transfer it from the country of origin,others will not. An international driving license is valid for periods of 6-12 months continuous depending on the country you are in before you have to change.
i.e. You can drive on a Nigerian license in this country for six months but then must make an application for transfer or/and take a test.
Some 3rd world countries although the have a license scheme do not conform to our required criteria or standards which may or may not require that the applicant takes an EU driving test.
When I was doing international driving I always had an International License for the Middle East and North Africa mainly because it is printed in several lanuages.
You do not have to go outside Europe to have this strange situation.I know of one instance where a 19 year old Swiss driver arrived in Dover with a 44tonne artic and was refused permission to drive on British roads as I had to go to Dover and drive the truck in the UK for the Swiss company.
License legislation is very complicated when outwith the EU.

Originally Posted by martin15s

Spain have only introduced what is supposed to be a unified approach throughout the EU.... increase in the BHP to 47..... As already stated, only bikes with a maximum of 94bhp can be restricted

So are other countries going to be changing to the same?

Not that a limit particularly makes sense anyway, but if you have one 47bhp makes more sense, because you could ride the likes of a 500 or even some of the older 650cc trailies unrestricted. 33bhp was introduced in the days when there was a good selection of 250's and 400's to choose from.

Don't worry about the non-EU thing, I didn't realise that you weren't Spanish. He is going to be riding a bike registered and insured at his parents address in Portugal, but he lives in Mexico and will only ride for 3 months each year in Portugal. I don't think registration and insurance are an issue as if he rented a bike it would be Portugal registered and insured. The insurance company didn't have an issue when he told them he had a Mexican license. We are pretty sure under those circumstances he can ride, and I can't believe one civilized country doesn't allow a visitor for three months to ride on the license of another civilised country. The only issue is we are working on assumptions, we haven't found anything to confirm it on the Portuguese equivalent of Direct.gov. At worst he'll have to jump on my pillion seat if we get stopped at the side of the road and a copper disagrees.

I think a copper would look at a Mexican license and hand it back, not having a clue if it was valid! MBK, do you have a list of the countries license holders that are not allowed to drive in the UK in your head?

I don't know what other countries will do,but The UK will follow suit. It gets a little more complicated with regard to ages. I'm led to believe that over 21's can go straight for the full A licence. My son is 19 and when he passes the practical test, he will have to hold the A2 licence for 2 years before applying for the A - it's not yet been disclosed as to whether a further test will be necessary.......

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

So are other countries going to be changing to the same?

Not that a limit particularly makes sense anyway, but if you have one 47bhp makes more sense, because you could ride the likes of a 500 or even some of the older 650cc trailies unrestricted. 33bhp was introduced in the days when there was a good selection of 250's and 400's to choose from.

Don't worry about the non-EU thing, I didn't realise that you weren't Spanish. He is going to be riding a bike registered and insured at his parents address in Portugal, but he lives in Mexico and will only ride for 3 months each year in Portugal. I don't think registration and insurance are an issue as if he rented a bike it would be Portugal registered and insured. The insurance company didn't have an issue when he told them he had a Mexican license. We are pretty sure under those circumstances he can ride, and I can't believe one civilized country doesn't allow a visitor for three months to ride on the license of another civilised country. The only issue is we are working on assumptions, we haven't found anything to confirm it on the Portuguese equivalent of Direct.gov. At worst he'll have to jump on my pillion seat if we get stopped at the side of the road and a copper disagrees.

I think a copper would look at a Mexican license and hand it back, not having a clue if it was valid! MBK, do you have a list of the countries license holders that are not allowed to drive in the UK in your head?

Short answer is no Ralph I'm afraid. Bluepete would be better equipped to answer a question like that - I'm no traffic expert!

I have only ever come across European licences, I think I also once saw an American one but I honestly can't remember. I'm sure the DVLA website will tell you?

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Short answer is no Ralph I'm afraid. Bluepete would be better equipped to answer a question like that - I'm no traffic expert!

I have only ever come across European licences, I think I also once saw an American one but I honestly can't remember. I'm sure the DVLA website will tell you?

Thanks. I know where to find that info here (Direct.gov), all I was trying to establish is whether an average Portuguese cop would know whether or not a Mexican license was valid in Portugal. Since you wouldn't have known if you'd come across one yesterday, I don't think the cops in the little villages we will be going through in Portugal are going to know either. My friend won't be doing any motorways or coming across any dedicated traffic cops.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Thanks. I know where to find that info here (Direct.gov), all I was trying to establish is whether an average Portuguese cop would know whether or not a Mexican license was valid in Portugal. Since you wouldn't have known if you'd come across one yesterday, I don't think the cops in the little villages we will be going through in Portugal are going to know either. My friend won't be doing any motorways or coming across any dedicated traffic cops.

I would imagine they would do the same as us and check though, not something I would risk tbh!

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

I would imagine they would do the same as us and check though, not something I would risk tbh!

He's happy to risk it and it's up to him. We can't find the answer on the internet, but he speaks perfect Portuguese, so he could find out with a few phone calls if he wanted to. The insurance company said it's OK so that's good enough for him. Portuguese people don't have the same approach to keeping it legal that we have in the UK. Drink driving is still commonplace for instance. If a copper gives him an issue he'll shrug his shoulders and say, "sorry sir, the insurance company said..."