Speed and Misconceptions about it

Chris, you'd argue green grass was blue, you know that?

[yorkie_chris]

It's just physics. Concentrate on what's going on in front of you not how fast the scenery is whizzing past your head!

Friction coefficients do not care what is going on in your (or my) tiny mind. Newton didn't care either when he wrote equations of motion.

Police riders or anyone aren't any smarter than you or I, it's bullsh*t to say they can process more information. It's just by practice and training they can pick the correct bits out to process.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

What skills do you gain at 120mph on an open road that you do not have equal skills in at 59mph ona gnarly road?
Same equations just different numbers in them.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Police riders or anyone aren't any smarter than you or I, it's bullsh*t to say they can process more information. It's just by practice and training they can pick the correct bits out to process.

I agree 100%, which answers your question on what skills they gain during training. They get to practice doing 120 as part of their training, and we don't (not legally anyway). Exactly the same reason why a TT racer's eyes and brain can process the speed better than you or I, they get the practice.

Yes, and this proves the previous point YC was trying to make. That police officers differ from normal people only through the training that they received and that any person with that level of training will travel safely at those speeds.

And Ralph, to retort to a previous point you made, I do agree that the dimwit in the 4x4 that does 20mph over everyone else (and I swear to god, there's no higher concentration of'em anywhere else in the world like in Romania) has no clue as to what his speed should be, but it does not relate in any way to legal speed. It just relates to the lack of education and consideration to others (and himself) that he's showing. I'm not saying the absence of speed limits would eliminate all of these problems, as the easing of these only depends on education.

I wonder how much it would cost, assuming the legalities could be sorted, to give all riders and drivers who wanted it (and let's face it, not everybody enjoys going fast - I've got friends who won't even drive on motorways if they can be avoided) something approaching that level of speed training. Would economies of scale then make it cheaper to train police as well? Sounds win, win to me.

Oh, andreis and Ralph, you're right about the 4x4 numpties. I've always assumed it's the totally false level of confidence that the symbols "4x4" seem to give. If you have to go for the brakes doing 70 in the snow lane, you're going sideways, no matter what you're driving.

Originally Posted by andreis

Yes, and this proves the previous point YC was trying to make. That police officers differ from normal people only through the training that they received and that any person with that level of training will travel safely at those speeds.

And Ralph, to retort to a previous point you made, I do agree that the dimwit in the 4x4 that does 20mph over everyone else (and I swear to god, there's no higher concentration of'em anywhere else in the world like in Romania) has no clue as to what his speed should be, but it does not relate in any way to legal speed. It just relates to the lack of education and consideration to others (and himself) that he's showing. I'm not saying the absence of speed limits would eliminate all of these problems, as the easing of these only depends on education.

Originally Posted by DJFridge

I wonder how much it would cost, assuming the legalities could be sorted, to give all riders and drivers who wanted it (and let's face it, not everybody enjoys going fast - I've got friends who won't even drive on motorways if they can be avoided) something approaching that level of speed training. Would economies of scale then make it cheaper to train police as well? Sounds win, win to me.

Oh, andreis and Ralph, you're right about the 4x4 numpties. I've always assumed it's the totally false level of confidence that the symbols "4x4" seem to give. If you have to go for the brakes doing 70 in the snow lane, you're going sideways, no matter what you're driving.

Yep, your both bang on IMO. The police are only different due to training and practice. And I agree that any person (except a blonde female of course ) would be just as safe.

Trouble is, how many people do you know with a driving license? Then compare that how many people you know that have been lucky enough to do the same level of training. If they have and they are not police, how much have they paid to do it?

And we are way back to what I said in post #88

Of course the 4x4 in snow numpties are not related to speed limits, most traffic running on a snow bound motorway is doing about 35-45 mph, so even if the 4x4 is 20mph hour faster, he's still below the speed limit.

Trouble is again, take away that visible hazard, and replace it with black ice, and everyone's doing 70 again, just the same as they would on a dry day in the middle of summer.

[Red Herring]

I'm sure you could work out how much it would cost if you put your mind to it. If we say that it's going to cost £40 an hour to hire an instructor, appropriate vehicle, and put fuel and consumables in it.....

Basic course, 2 weeks = 10x8 hour days = 80 hours.
Standard course, 3 weeks = 15x8 hour days = 120 hours
Advanced course, 3 weeks = 15x8 hour days = 120 hours.

Total 320 hours, but normally 2 pupils in the car so nominally 160 hours each = £6,400
(but you do need to do it in pairs as you learn whilst as a passenger as well)

So that's the cost of getting the initial training, now you need to factor in the regular practice. Most operational police drivers get to drive on UDD (Urgent Duty Driving) several times a day, lets say for arguments sake it's a total time of an hour a day. For practicalities we'll let you save up a few days and do it all at once, lets round it down a bit and insist on 8 hours (one day) every two weeks, so that's another £320 you'll need to come up with. Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh here, can't we just let you practice in your own time, in your own car? Possibly, but are you going to have the discipline to do so safely? Despite a few of us letting the side down police officers are generally considered to be reasonably trustworthy (yeah yeah I know....) but they do have quite an incentive not to abuse the system, like they can lose their job... would the same apply to all these now super trained drivers..... anyway I'm starting to ramble...

Oh I almost forgot, you need to budget for refresher training as well. In our force it's currently another weeks training, two to a car, every three years. So that's another £800 each please..... How much are we up to, I've lost count. I reckon it would be cheaper to leave things as they are and just pay the speeding fines.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

How much are we up to, I've lost count. I reckon it would be cheaper to leave things as they are and just pay the speeding fines.

RH, that's a fantastically kind offer. If I get any, I will pass them straight on to you!

All joking apart, that looks like a lot of money. Do you think we should pretend to be French and ask for an EU subsidy to lower it a bit?

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by DJFridge

RH, that's a fantastically kind offer. If I get any, I will pass them straight on to you!

All joking apart, that looks like a lot of money. Do you think we should pretend to be French and ask for an EU subsidy to lower it a bit?

It is a lot of money, which is why only a few police officers are trained to that level. The majority stay on a basic course which lets them drive the panda cars without any exemptions. Then you have the area car drivers who are the first response to emergency calls, and most of them are "standard" trained, which allows them to use blues and twos with exemptions, and in some forces carry out the initial phase of a pursuit.