Our Mother Tongue

[timwilky]

Northwind.

I don't disagree with you. I only pointed out the books I read as a child to illustrate my own understanding that language and the use of English does evolve by making an indirect comparison with my own experience of the evolution through the unintelligible 14th century Chaucer, 16th century Shakespeare, and Victorian Dickens. .

It is however, my contention that this evolution should take place over a considerably greater time than it takes for the current latest slang use to be adopted into the regular vocabulary of todays youth.

Whilst I thought it initially mildly amusing when the 3 year old boy next door was being admonished by his mother to reply "Whatever". I know a similar reply even at that age would have been rewarded by a sharp reminder of my manners from my own mother.

It just appears to me that generally standards are slipping in many areas, be it education, manners, behaviour. Nobody seems ready to stick their heads above the parapet to shout enough without the politically correct stuffing freedom of expression and the individual down our throats. Or politicians trying to spin a reason why yet another generation is heading for mediocrity and a life without fulfilment and reward.

Perhaps I am naive to think that the angry young men of the 50s and 60s had good intent, but todays youth don't appear to have the incentive to want to change the world. Instead they seem content let the world pass them by.

Im awaiting for the deport the immigrants post.

From other recent threads it seems a fair few people see that as the answer to all the countrys ills.

But as you say, language is fluid and is evolving. The language we use is a world away from Chaucer. Its the reason kids struggle with Shakespear in school - the language he used is different. Mind you I did find out what Maiden head meant doing Romeo & Juliet. Anyone live there?

But each generation had their own styling of language. For some reason the beatniks in the 60s spring to mind here, and the hippies. Why be surprised our children are forming their own style?

Not that I like the Americanisation of our language. And the use of Z instead of S does annoy me a little. I view it as the person posting cant make the simplest of efforts, so why should I spend any attempting to decode it? Tend to ignore most people who do that now.

[Viney]

As you point out above Tim, i think that most of todays youth, have very little respect for thier elders. i know that if i had reciprocated with "whatever" to my parents after being told off, then i would, like most, got a clip around the ear, something that is now frowned upon, and the kids know it.

As for the language, blame TV, Texting & media in general. Things evolve. Who to say that the likes of Shakespere et al, where right in the way we speak today? To be honest, i read shakespere at school and didnt have the foggiest what it was on about, although i wanted to.

Stuff happens, and i think the fact that its getting to you, just shows that we are from a different era and are just getting superseeded. It would be great to come back in 50-60 years time, if we have departed this mortal coil, and see whats occuring. We would all stand there shake our heads, and not have a clue what everyone is on about.

Something else that you picked up on. Hand writting. I know mine, since the extensive use of PC's, has deteriorated tremedously, and this is something that is sad. I even get cramp in my hand when i write long letters!

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by lynw

Im awaiting for the deport the immigrants post.

That would be be ridiculous.

Many immigrants speak and write far better English than the English. Perhaps because they have actually been taught English. Whereas, there seems to be an attitude that we the English should learn it from our parents and peers.

No wonder the sins of the parents are visited on the child.

While I to hate some slang talk, things like 'chav' talk and such annoy me, I have in my youth and adult hood butchered the English language. Still do now as my English skills are awful, I even still now pronounce the name of my home town with out a H. So its 'ayling, rather then Hayling.
As for my use of there, their and they're its just doesn't want talking about.
Our language is a beast of animal that is constantly evolving and growing, just like our lives and culture.
If you really want to be traditional, be like the welsh and speak our true tongue. What ever it was all those years ago... probably German or something.

Originally Posted by Grinch

If you really want to be traditional, be like the welsh and speak our true tongue.

Wow How many centuries would we have to go back for that ? Even then I'd take bets there was regional variations to it

As I Lancastrian I'm hardly best placed to comment on spoken English, but at least I can, when pushed, mind my P's and Q's (and t's, h's, th's etc etc )

Originally Posted by timwilky

That would be be ridiculous.

Many immigrants speak and write far better English than the English. Perhaps because they have actually been taught English. Whereas, there seems to be an attitude that we the English should learn it from our parents and peers.

No wonder the sins of the parents are visited on the child.

I agree it would be ridiculous. But going by at least 2 recent threads its become quite apparent there are a few people on here that are happy to blame all the countries ills on immigrants and believe they should be deported even if it results in their murder.

Sorry, the sarcasm took over with that post. But I really wouldnt be surprised if said people surfaced suggesting it.

I am down with all of the above, it's all cool like except if you say 'My bad...' Use of that statement by an individual should be causation for them to be hanged by the neck until they are dead. And their corpse to be used for target pratice on a Scud missile testing range.

IMHO

And incase the rope on the gallows fails, here is the firing squad.


not that I find the use of the aformentioned quasi statement annoying at all...

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by Grinch

While I to hate some slang talk, things like 'chav' talk and such annoy me, I have in my youth and adult hood butchered the English language. Still do now as my English skills are awful, I even still now pronounce the name of my home town with out a H. So its 'ayling, rather then Hayling.
As for my use of there, their and they're its just doesn't want talking about.
Our language is a beast of animal that is constantly evolving and growing, just like our lives and culture.
If you really want to be traditional, be like the welsh and speak our true tongue. What ever it was all those years ago... probably German or something.

Dan

Anyone who has ever met me will tell you I speak with a Lancashire accent. However, I am very conscious of this and when away from my own village I attempt to tone it down. Pronounciation is generally learnt for your peers. Hence the regional accents.

I am not calling for a return to any traditional English or god forbid the return of received pronunciation to the media. I just think that pride is lacking, not for a long forgotten era, but in the person. How can anyone, who would rather run with the pack instead instead of evolving for themselves have any pride.

You recognise you make mistakes with your language. We all do. To myself, the next step would be to try to rectify the mistakes. Whilst extremely difficult with speech, there is no reason for text speak, street slang etc to enter into use. Engage brain and think before you speak.

The "Whatever", I don't care attitude of todays youth leaves me cold. It is no wonder many are unemployable, who would want to invest their time, money and effort into a lost cause.

I was brought up by my parents to speak the "Queens English" but as soon as I started secondary school I adopted the "native" language spoken there which was semi-cockney. My mother used to despair!! "There is an H in Hat" etc she used to say! but I eventually "got back to speaking normally" but still find that my accent tends to adapt to whoever Im speaking to so when with my partner and mates (East End) I soon drop the H and Ts etc! but can also converse quite well with Barristers, Lawyers etc (when I worked as a legal secretary).

My Son speaks in Chav tounge which I find quite amusing - he is only doing exactly the same as I did. I never chastise him for it because I know he can speak correctly when need be - when he speaks to my parents/anyone he considers important he speaks normally but you should hear him on the phone to his mates - its unintelligible!! usually starts the sentence with the F word which is added in again at 3 word intervals, along with the word Man pronounced "Mun" every few words and plenty of "innit" and most words are "Jamaicanised".

I just try to keep up with the ever changing English language and new words - I often have the odd outburst of "am I bovvered/whatever" just for the fun of it (Im 47 btw!!).