Picking your brains - Blade v BMW

It doesn't have a 'klunky gearbox'. It has a very nice gearbox indeed. Have you ever ridden one? I can only assume not!

If you have no finesse whatsoever and cannot change gear smoothly to save your life it klunks at you. So if you are a leaden footed idiot with no physical co-ordination and a phobia about klunking noises, best not buy one, but for everybody else, the gearbox is at least as good as anything most of the competition can provide. BMW have got shaft drive very well sorted indeed and have done for a number of years!

By the way, in short you haven't paid attention. The bike I originally intended to buy, the R1150GS Adventure, would have served me very well, and depreciated hardly at all, despite having a pretty poor gearbox.

The K1200GT I decided on a whim to buy instead had a much worse gearbox, amongst other deficiencies, and depreciated like a rock. When I decided to get rid after just a year, I couldn't give the GT away anywhere outside a BMW dealer. It would have cost me a lot more than the £5,000 it did cost me to get rid of it anywhere else.

Luckily the R1200GS I bought restored my faith in the brand, and despite chopping it in at 3 years with 25,000 hard miles on it, it hardly depreciated at all over its lifetime. And it was as good a bike the day I sold it as it was the day I bought it.

The new K1200GT already has 14,000 miles on it and I've only had it a year.

A word about Rydales of Cardiff, who I bought that first bike from: They are out of the motorcycle business and also under new management entirely. Good riddance.

Other than that I've had only good experiences with BMW dealers, and I've visited enough now to have come into contact with a fair selection of them, in this country and abroad.

You can try and justify your position all you like. I wouldn't touch a BMW with a bargepole, not when Yamaha make the FJR1300, Kawasaki the GTR1400, Honda the Pan Euro etc etc, all at reasonable cost and better developed...with gearboxes that don't clunk.

I have a question to ask - do you own an SV or have any intention of ever owning one?

Originally Posted by Lozzo

You can try and justify your position all you like. I wouldn't touch a BMW with a bargepole, not when Yamaha make the FJR1300,

I test rode an early one, I was seriously intending to buy one around the time that I bought that first GT, but it was uncomfortable and looked cheaply made so I gave it a miss. In hindsight I should have bought it! However, when I was in the marjet for the current GT, the FJR looked very underspecced and uninspiring.

Kawasaki the GTR1400,

I held off buying a new bike until this was launched because I liked the pictures and expected it to be good. The damned thing doesn't even have factory heated grips! The screen is too low as well. Very nice gimmicky keyless ignition, but no toys and not even a particularly good bike, despite massive price tag. Looks nice, though.

Honda the Pan Euro etc etc,

I wanted one of these when I realised that the FJR wasn't for me. But I insisted on test riding it before ponying up £14 large, and the best Honda could offer me was five minutes round the block in traffic on a non-ABS model if I went to their Kew Bridge branch. So I made a reason to travel 250 miles and turned up there on a quiet weekday when staff exceeded customers 3 - 1. to be told 'We do only do escorted test rides on Fridays, come back then!'.

In hindsight I'm glad I didn't. It's a very nice bike that had a lot of serious teething problems, all fixed by Honda, but all a pain in the backside, doesn't have a few 'nice to have' toys but does, very occasionally, very suddenly and rather rudely decide to tank-slap its riders to death. Which is why plod have sold all theirs off and got rid.

all at reasonable cost and better developed...with gearboxes that don't clunk.

Proof that you've not ridden any of the above bikes. The FJR and the Pan definitely klunk if you change gear clumsily on the move, or when you engage first gear. I assume that the GTR does as well.

That's shaft drive for you.

I have a question to ask - do you own an SV or have any intention of ever owning one?

No, and no.

I have a direct question for you. Have you ever ridden a 2005 or later K1200R, K1200S or K1200GT before condemning them?

Originally Posted by kwh

<Of the Pan Euro> In hindsight I'm glad I didn't. It's a very nice bike that had a lot of serious teething problems, all fixed by Honda, but all a pain in the backside, doesn't have a few 'nice to have' toys but does, very occasionally, very suddenly and rather rudely decide to tank-slap its riders to death. Which is why plod have sold all theirs off and got rid.

Civilian Pan Euros do not tankslap. The Police models were withdrawn because the extra weight and distribution of radio gear and police equipment behind the rear wheel axle caused handling and stability problems. This does not happen on civvie models with panniers fully loaded to manufacturers recommendations. You knew that, everyone does, but you chose not to say it.

Originally Posted by kwh

<of possible or current SV ownership>

No, and no.

So why are you posting here on an SV forum when you don't have one or have any intention of ever owning one? I can only make a guess that you are here to troll, and seeing your diatribes aimed at Seggons after the EAR rideout that's been wholely confirmed.

Originally Posted by kwh

I have a direct question for you. Have you ever ridden a 2005 or later K1200R, K1200S or K1200GT before condemning them?

I've ridden the K1200S and GT, I rated both as unwieldy, overpriced underdeveloped cack. Sure they are fast, but they are unmanouverable at low speed and the gearbox is awful no matter how gentle you are with it. In 30 years of riding I can honestly say I have never found a more detestable motorcycle than any of the BMWs I have had the misfortune to ride.

Only this morning I was helping a guy fix the fuel filler cap on a R100RT, the overcomplex type with the lift up D-ring, screw thread and pins that seize up and make it impossible to open. Half a can of WD40 and a few well placed taps on the cap later and it finally opened. Of the 30 or so bikes that turned up at the meet I was at, only the BMW gave a problem. Those 30 bikes included a 1971 MZ ES250/2 Trophy that was ridden flat out the 250 odd miles to Derby from Brighton and an aging Ducati ST with stratospheric mileage.

I subscribe to a number of forums and other net related boards where bikes of all types are discussed - it's mainly the BMW owners who are so vocal about how brilliant their bikes are, but they are also the ones who spend more time travelling in recovery trucks. I'd rather buy a used RS125 Aprilia than any BMW.

Ah, I love the smell of ridiculous flamebait in the morning.

Not playing. My advice stands. If the original poster wishes to take any notice of your rabid hyperbolic armwaving, I would say more fool him.

Originally Posted by kwh

Ah, I love the smell of ridiculous flamebait in the morning.

Not playing. My advice stands. If the original poster wishes to take any notice of your rabid hyperbolic armwaving, I would say more fool him.

It's not rabid armwaving or ridiculous flamebaiting. I've worked in the bike trade in one capacity or another for the past 15 years and been riding for 15 before that- if I say or suggest something it's usually from a position of personal experience.

But, you're one of those who's always right...aren't you? Might I suggest you take your trolling elsewhere. I'm bored with you and I'm sure many other posters are too after your 'so far up yourself' rant at Seggons is anything to go by. Personally, I'll be employing that wonderful feature called the 'ignore' button as I can't be bothered with you. I'd suggest anyone else reading this does the same.

I rode the blade. Makes you feel you can conquer the world!

Well, OK - we're done here I think.

If anyone has anything useful to add to the original question please PM the originator of the thread.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Civilian Pan Euros do not tankslap. The Police models were withdrawn because the extra weight and distribution of radio gear and police equipment behind the rear wheel axle caused handling and stability problems. This does not happen on civvie models with panniers fully loaded to manufacturers recommendations. You knew that, everyone does, but you chose not to say it.

Again with the editing!

Untrue. There is nothing fundamentally different about the spec of police Pans and civilian pans, and nothing special about the weight distribution of police gear that cannot be replicated by a particular combination of camping gear and luggage in or bungied onto a top-box.

Which is why several people have been killed or seriously injured by suddenly tank-slapping Pans, around the world.

The difference is that the police ride bikes with that comination of load and weight distribution all day every day, civilians only rarely. So it happens to police riders at a higher rate than it happens to civilians.

and seeing your diatribes aimed at Seggons after the EAR rideout that's been wholely confirmed.

As I think I may have already said, with friends like you, Seggons doesn't need enemies. Have you 'helped' any other new riders the way you've 'helped' Seggons? Or do you really know no better?

In 30 years of riding I can honestly say I have never found a more detestable motorcycle than any of the BMWs I have had the misfortune to ride.

Yes, no hyperbolic armwaving flamebait there, then.

I know the new K1200 are quite able at the 'Ring, here's one accomplished rider getting it a bit wrong after the Flugpatz, too much wheelie fun and too much brake on touch down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHKltnZvnI

PS Rider was fine I believe, the bike a little less so....