Prison Poll

I'm all for this strike by prison officers.

It means I might get some overtime to go in and man the prisons or whatever it is we do to cover when they go on strike. Are the firemen due to go off again soon ???

We've been offered a pay rise which is about 1.2% (I think) below the rate of inflation, so I need to earn some extra somehow.

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

However as they have no right to strike, thus making the strike illegal it IS indeed criminal

Wrong.

[Biker Biggles]

I think more civil than criminal,but you probably meant illegal?
It will be interesting to see how this pans out,as almost the entire public sector is poised to follow the prison officers example. example.

[Wideboy]

good for them

don't see the need to worry prisoners still escape when they're there anyway

Definitely think we need to make use of the prisoners too. Road work would be a perfect place for it! And yes the justice system isn't always right, but what difference would that make? There's no smoke without fire! however iirc it costs the taxpayer about £60 000 a year per prisoner at the moment!!!

[northwind]

Road work's not just banging away with picks you know...

It's a tricky one, but here's one for the opponents of prison labour- Arizona's one of the states that's reintroduced the "chain gang", though in reality it's not like that any more. People have been very quick to jump on this as barbaric or "cruel and unusual"- apparently missing the point that it's voluntary. Working in prison is often done on a voluntary basis, or for a very basic wage. Some would say it's a win-win situation- it reduces boredom, and in some cases can give the prisoner a useful skill. It's also strongly linked to reduced reoffending- but that's not reliable at all, it's just as likely that prisoner's predisposed to work in prison are also less likely to reoffend, and also the criminal categories considered for prison labour tend to be less likely to reoffend (you don't give a persistantly violent offender a hammer)

On the other hand... It's rarely very productive- the classic chain gang was breakin' rocks in the hot sun, but not actually achieving much. Escapes or injuries were common too. It wasn't good for much other than unskilled heavy labour work- railroad construction was the classic. We've got very little use for that, and mechanisation would be easier, cheaper and faster than prison gangs these days anyway.

But there's a lot more to it than that. Obviously there's an economic impact- Honda America "employs" prisoners at $2 per hour to do jobs previously done by free workers at $20 an hour (allegedly). The Oregon "40-hour prison week" led to several thousand private job losses.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to see it's wide open to abuse- there's been all sorts of reported cases, such as prisoners punished for refusing "voluntary" work in parole hearings or with disciplinary measures. Abuse and exploitation of "employees" seems to be pretty epidemic too, since they don't have the protection a private citizen does, or unionisation.

But the big objection is that against the prison industry. Prison is a lucrative business, and with private prisons and prison labour we create a situation where people other than the criminals benefit from crime, and have a vested interest in putting people in prison. Again in Oregon, the number of people being imprisoned increased by 10% above underlying trends the year after the 40-hour prison working week was introduced, and continued to climb faster than the national averages for some years- it became beneficial to jail people who previously wouldn't have been. Prison labour makes reoffending cheaper than rehabilitation in some cases, and gives a financial incentive against offering parole.

Put it differently, if you ever find yourself facing a possible jail term- it could happen- do you want the person making that decision to be thinking about politics, or economics, or just your offence? Do you want there to be solid financial reasons to put you in a cage, and to keep you there for longer while you work for a pittance?

It's easy to say "If you commit a crime you forfeit your rights". How many of us has never committed a crime? You can get the jail for speeding these days, and you'd be a prime candidate for prison labour. Or for insurance fraud, that's a fairly popular one amongst vehicle owners. Or for any number of dangerous driving offences. Or for getting drunk one night, getting in a scrap and hitting someone just slightly too hard. Don't fall into the trap of making it us vs them, a lot of people in jail are Them but plenty are Us too.

PS, I've got a cold and I'm bored

Originally Posted by northwind

PS, I've got a cold and I'm bored

Not stopped you writing a very good post. It's a shame more people don't think through their views before making them.

[northwind]

And it had a Clash reference

What Northwind said. I would also reiterate that it is never a good idea for a free society to create a situation where you have no rights in certain situations. As has been said before, there are plenty of scum bags in prison but there are also plenty of people like you and me in there who have fallen on hard times or taken a wrong turn or made a wrong decision.

This ol' Chestnut, don't get me started

It cost £150,000 a year to keep a 'lifer' banged up & only 9p to produce a 9mm bullet... Make your own mind up time

If you don't want to go to prison, then don't break the law... Easy really