SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum



Idle Banter For non SV and non bike related chat (and the odd bit of humour - but if any post isn't suitable it'll get deleted real quick).
There's also a "U" rating so please respect this. Newbies can also say "hello" here too.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14-08-11, 04:09 PM   #381
hindle8907
Member
Mega Poster
 
hindle8907's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,492
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

I think this is a good read.
__________________
2006-2007 -- Gilera Runner 50 - Sold
2007-2008 -- Hyosung XRX125 - Stolen
2009-2010 -- 05 SV650n - CAT - B
2010-Now -- 00 SV650s & 00 SV650n & GSXR 600 K2
hindle8907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-11, 04:11 PM   #382
MisterTommyH
Member
 
MisterTommyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Mids
Posts: 854
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie_chris View Post
Would I sound like a complete c*ck to suggest that we won 2 world wars by doing more with less and getting on with the job, and to suggest that people try being a little British about it and apply a stiff upper lip and a resolutely cheerful attitude?
No you wouldn't. The threat just isn't as obvious.
MisterTommyH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-11, 04:15 PM   #383
MisterTommyH
Member
 
MisterTommyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Mids
Posts: 854
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingo View Post
A few short weeks ago a senior member of the armed forces made statement about how long operations could be maintained in Libya. The primeminister made a statement with words to the effect of "you do the fighting, I'll do the talking". It is possible some of you may recall this. Source linky here... http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassi...-talking.thtml
As I understand things, the current levels of police manning are about to be reduced as part of the current round of spending cuts on public services. I for one would like to see the chief of police say to the PM "You do the talking, let us do the policing".
I know this is a simplistic view of things and the whole issue is certainly far more complex, however wouldn't it be nice to see someone bite back at those who constantly seem to be of the opinion that we should all do more with less?
just my two bobs worth.
With regard to the police cuts.....I very much support our police, and think that the actual officers try very hard, but are sometimes tied up in red tape.

I've heard many coppers moan about the amount of paperwork thats come in in the last 10 years. Would it be possible to get rid of some of the pointless paperwork so that these cuts can be made by allowing them to be more efficient rather than by cutting the number of officers?

By more efficient, I don't mean that any PCs should have to do more work, but rather that they'd spend more time out on the street instead of the office?
MisterTommyH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-11, 05:05 PM   #384
TamSV
Member
Mega Poster
 
TamSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Troon, Ayrshire
Posts: 1,812
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Squid View Post
You may have noted in my prior scribbles that I have not mentioned Socialism, always 'socialism', there is a a chasm of difference, they are not the same at all.
You're right, I missed the nuance, but I absolutely take your point. I'm not sure Blair would honestly describe himself as a socialist - the Labour Party was a vehicle of convenience for him. Brown perhaps used to be a genuine socialist but he gave it up around the same time he started to pretend he wasn't a Scot.

There's no doubt you're right that various incarnations of socialism have been perverted by selfishness, fear, greed and sloth but it's far from the only political system that can claim that. These are all very human characteristics and they are exactly what we've seen on the streets this past week IMO.

Disorder always bolsters the right. The narrative of this week from the right seems to be that the welfare state is the cause. The assumption that all the rioters/looters are in receipt of state benefits is made without the need for evidence. It may well be true, I've no idea, but it could well be the case. However, I've also seen the assumption that their parents must also be on benefits and I think that's a bit shakier.

I wouldn't describe myself as a socialist, possibly a liberal (you'll note the small L ), but I do believe in a hand up to the unlucky and the unfortunate. I think that's what many Labour voters have in mind and that particular party is their least worst credible option.

However, it won't be surprising if the voters shift to the right on this issue and I would be concerned that the deserving suffer from the actions of a small minority. That's not to say that I don't believe a large slice of benefit reform is required, but I'd rather it wasn't made quickly and in the shadow of recent events.

Policing is the other area where we may now swing too far to the right (too far for me that is, for others there seems to be no limit).

As I've said before, what we've seen is the worst of human nature in action. These scrotes have always been with us and always will. They weren't created by socialism and they won't disappear with its abolition.

Whether our current weakness in dealing with them, or the heavy-handedness that might now follow, is the greater provocation time will tell. A lurch too far to the right now may, in the future, produce some "proper" riots.

Last edited by TamSV; 14-08-11 at 05:07 PM.
TamSV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-11, 09:51 AM   #385
Sid Squid
No, I don't lend tools.
Mega Poster
 
Sid Squid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Skunk Works, Nth London
Posts: 8,680
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
I'm not sure Blair would honestly describe himself as a socialist.
I'm significantly more of a Socialist than Mr Blair is, and I'm pretty sure he'd describe himself as Waffen SS if he thought it would appeal to the electorate, politically speaking I also rather doubt he's too often troubled by honesty, and realistically has little or no personal political affiliation, whatever was the useful vehicle - as you so rightly say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
There's no doubt you're right that various incarnations of socialism have been perverted by selfishness, fear, greed and sloth but it's far from the only political system that can claim that.
Very true, but Socialism is doomed by it's very nature always to become 'socialism', and 'socialism' is the problem that has hurt us for the last four + decades with absolutely no hope of redemption or rehabilitation. At the risk of repeating myself, the thirteen vile, self serving, wasted years from '97 on may be the most extreme and obvious example of what Socialism inexorably becomes, but it's that only by degree, not fundament. It's the left that blights us now, and it's that which we must wake up to and deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
These are all very human characteristics and they are exactly what we've seen on the streets this past week IMO.
Human nature? Hmmmm... seems more Pavlovian response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
The narrative of this week from the right seems to be that the welfare state is the cause. The assumption that all the rioters/looters are in receipt of state benefits is made without the need for evidence. It may well be true, I've no idea, but it could well be the case. However, I've also seen the assumption that their parents must also be on benefits and I think that's a bit shakier.
The welfare state is not in itself the cause, the administration therof however has a large part to play. Are all the looters in receipt of benefits? I couldn't possibly be say. Look at if differently; are the looters, generally, in/from areas of our country where the local authority is Labour controlled, where unemployment is high and that 'socialism' has inculcated with feelings of absolute right, disaffection and resentment? That's not so difficult to answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
possibly a liberal (you'll note the small L )
I did .
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
but I do believe in a hand up to the unlucky and the unfortunate.
Despite what certain people think of me, I too feel that a welfare system is a sign of a civilised and altruistic society, but let it be carefully constructed not to be too easy an option. Spoiled children's behaviour deteriorates - that's human nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
I think that's what many Labour voters have in mind
Which is precisely what the charlatan left rely upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
and that particular party is their least worst credible option.
But the reverse is clearly true, even if Labour weren't continually and intractably the victims of 'socialist' perversion, all there is after that is authoritarianism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
Policing is the other area where we may now swing too far to the right.
The Police are already out of control - the last thing we need is to bolster their sense of self-importance. The 'rioting', (it isn't), isn't the result of poor policing, but if there's little respect for the Police the blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the Police themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamSV View Post
These scrotes have always been with us and always will. They weren't created by socialism and they won't disappear with its abolition.
Created no, enabled yes, fomented certainly.
__________________
If an SV650 has a flat tyre in the forest and no-one is there to blow it up, how long will it be 'til someone posts that the reg/rec is duff and the world will end unless a CBR unit is fitted? A little bit of knowledge = a dangerous thing.

"a deathless anthem of nuclear-strength romantic angst"
Sid Squid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-11, 07:07 PM   #386
Milky Bar Kid
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Squid View Post
I'm significantly more of a Socialist than Mr Blair is, and I'm pretty sure he'd describe himself as Waffen SS if he thought it would appeal to the electorate, politically speaking I also rather doubt he's too often troubled by honesty, and realistically has little or no personal political affiliation, whatever was the useful vehicle - as you so rightly say.
Very true, but Socialism is doomed by it's very nature always to become 'socialism', and 'socialism' is the problem that has hurt us for the last four + decades with absolutely no hope of redemption or rehabilitation. At the risk of repeating myself, the thirteen vile, self serving, wasted years from '97 on may be the most extreme and obvious example of what Socialism inexorably becomes, but it's that only by degree, not fundament. It's the left that blights us now, and it's that which we must wake up to and deal with.

Human nature? Hmmmm... seems more Pavlovian response.

The welfare state is not in itself the cause, the administration therof however has a large part to play. Are all the looters in receipt of benefits? I couldn't possibly be say. Look at if differently; are the looters, generally, in/from areas of our country where the local authority is Labour controlled, where unemployment is high and that 'socialism' has inculcated with feelings of absolute right, disaffection and resentment? That's not so difficult to answer.
I did .

Despite what certain people think of me, I too feel that a welfare system is a sign of a civilised and altruistic society, but let it be carefully constructed not to be too easy an option. Spoiled children's behaviour deteriorates - that's human nature.

Which is precisely what the charlatan left rely upon.

But the reverse is clearly true, even if Labour weren't continually and intractably the victims of 'socialist' perversion, all there is after that is authoritarianism.

The Police are already out of control - the last thing we need is to bolster their sense of self-importance. The 'rioting', (it isn't), isn't the result of poor policing, but if there's little respect for the Police the blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the Police themselves.

Created no, enabled yes, fomented certainly.
I tend to agree with Sid's posts on this thread. I am not hugely educated in politics but I do know that I had a huge dislike for Mr Blair. He is a liar, and one without a backbone at that. Bush said jump and Our Tony said "how high?".

Out of interest Sid, in what way do you think the Police are out of control? Are you meaning more of higher up the ranks and the actual organisation rather than most individual cops? Or do you mean more the laws that are being enforced? Genuinely interested. I do believe that sometimes the Govts knee jerk reaction to everything is to introduce a new law or piece of legislation. I mean, ASBO's to me are a prime example. Most ASBOs basically are "don't commit crime" so it means they are committing the original crime and breaching their ASBO where as most normal people know not to do it in the first place!

The looting that has taken place does not require any new legislation. The legislation is already there to deal with that. What it needed, IMHO, was a Home Secretary with half a clue of what they should be doing and a bit of a back bone. The looting should have been stamped out MUCH quicker by calling for mutual aid from Forces quicker and over powering them quickly. But then again, I am rank and file. What do I know? I'm only trained in how to actually deal with it on the street, as opposed to watching it on TV and making a decision in my office and signing a piece of paper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-12, 06:58 PM   #387
21QUEST
Member
Mega Poster
 
21QUEST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: HomeBound
Posts: 3,302
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Not a random resurrection as such....I justI wanted to say this "I couldn't give a Gnats wotsit if he had fired first at the police or not. If he had a gun on him(correct?), that's good enough reason for me....that he got himself killed" .

The only thing I disliked, was the way the Police handled the aftermath...but having said what I said in the first paragraph, I'm not going to lose too much sleep, with regards to that.

As for those apparently protesting(leading onto rioting) because he was shot and killed, well, must either be a bit stupid really or hadn't realised, he was carrying a weapon. I certainly wouldn't hjave been doing any protesting on account of someone who was carrying a gun illegally....we have to assume, would have been prepared to use it on someone.
__________________
Nemo me impune lacessit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lissa View Post
Blue, mate, having read a lot of your stuff I'd say 'in your head' is unknown territory for most of us

Last edited by 21QUEST; 18-03-12 at 07:01 PM.
21QUEST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-12, 07:20 PM   #388
Red Herring
Member
Mega Poster
 
Red Herring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,708
Default Re: Tottenham Riots

Personally I think 99% of those rioting couldn't give a fig about the police shooting, they just wanted an excuse to go on the rampage and they took it. If we want to get all deep and meaningful then we need to try and examine why there is so much frustration out there and the lack of any apparent willingness to do anything about it.
Red Herring is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.