Wet weather braking.

No offence taken everyone has there own style and ideas of what works for them i was just trying to point out that for a new rider extreme caution should be taken when using the rear brake in the wet due to the very limited grip available.

[dizzyblonde]

tis fair to say everyones advice to a newbie, is given with thought and braking is a personal preference in the end, it what the individual prefers. I still say to stay away from back brakes--believe me i ride around in a lot of rain oooop north or on my travels(as in France). At the end of the day a newbie can only decifer how to use their brakes from their own experiences of riding, and practising doesn't always make perfect but near as damn it

Fair enough. I agree, but I'd say be careful with both brakes but not to the extent you don't use one of them! I'd also say for new riders: get some practice in the wet so you know how hard you can brake, by finding the obligatory deserted road and progressively increasing the braking each time. You'll be surprised how fast you can brake if you are being smooth. Then you are less likely to have an "Oh 5h1t!!!!" moment when something untoward happens in front of you, followed by panic braking and locking up.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

There is a school of thought that says that in a panic situation you should bang the rear brake on hard a split second before the front. The reasoning is that it pulls the back of the bike down so there's not as much weight transfer to the front wheel when you hit the front brakes hard, which in turn will lessen the likelihood of the front locking up.

#1
The center of gravity of a bike is above its tyres, therefore any force transmitted through the tyres to slow it down it going to weight the front, and lighten the rear effectively.

#2
The force that can be applied in friction is proportional to the reaction force on the body, and the coefficient of friction, F=ma, so from this its a fair assumption that the greater the weight on the front tyre, the greater the limit of friction.

Whoever invented that arguement needs to think a little more.

However: If you do bang on the back brake first, then it'll start the weight transfer to the front, increasing the reaction force and hence the grip, so it's not all b0llocks, just the reasoning behind it

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Bear

but I think this may be a case of people being taught to fear one brake or the other, which is utter crap. Your brakes are your friends!

Agreed. You shouldnt fear one brake or the other, but learn and practice usin both, both work differently and can be used effectively in different circumstances.

I've always been a massive user of the front brake in all weathers and road conditions, Its what I feel most comfortable with and I only tend to use the rear at very slow speed and if I have to brake very heavily in an emergency I'll use it in conjunction with the front but not on its own. I dont know or care if this is right, its what works for me.

Its all about IMHO rider feel and rider confidence, confidence comes from practice and time in the saddle, I'm not afraid of my front brake or the rear, what I am afraid of is spinning up the rear in the wet, but thats a whole different thread

What Fizz said. And he managed to do it without any crawling apologies for potential insults!

[yorkie_chris]

So then...

Empty road, straight line, brake progressively untill you find the limit...

What speed to start at? Bearing in mind this is more for braking in the wet rather than stoppies (at the moment )

Do you just release the brakes if it locks? Do you get any warning?

And finally, whats the chances of ending up on your rse?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

So then...

Empty road, straight line, brake progressively untill you find the limit...

What speed to start at? Bearing in mind this is more for braking in the wet rather than stoppies (at the moment )

Do you just release the brakes if it locks? Do you get any warning?

And finally, whats the chances of ending up on your rse?

1. Start slow, 20mph, then build it up

2. Just release it instantly and re-apply, i've locked the front three times, once practising in the dry and twice in the wet when i've glanced over my shoulder and turned back to see brake lights, both times i grabbed, released and regained control to stop in time. You don't get a warning but it's fairly obvious when i happens, if you used to do huge front sheel lockups on you push-bike when you were a kid then you'll recognise the noise instantly

3. Depends on how crazy you are, 60mph first run and snatchy brake control on an iffy surface probably increases your chances

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

So then...

Empty road, straight line, brake progressively until you find the limit...

Yes, yes, and kinda. You don't have to get the wheels sliding if you don't feel comfortable, and it's better not to slide at all in the wet. The idea is to allow yourself to brake without the usual reason for the braking. This means when it comes time you aren't in panic mode over something you can get away with.

What speed to start at? Bearing in mind this is more for braking in the wet rather than stoppies (at the moment )

Start slow, say 10-15 or so, build up to whatever you are comfortable with as the road conditions allow

Do you just release the brakes if it locks? Do you get any warning?

Be prepared for it. If you are in a straight line the wheel may slide a little, and yes release the brake if it starts to slide. Beware of wet and greasy manhole covers or tar banding! I'd say try this in the dry so you know what it feels like and maybe don't attempt it in the wet as you're more likely to go down, as a slide will happen quicker. Also: try one brake at a time first so you know which end is sliding. Once you know, move on to two.

And finally, whats the chances of ending up on your rse?

It's always possible. Like I say, build up to speed slowly, be prepared to release the brake you are working on at the time, and do it in the dry first. It's weird, people always want to practice twisting their throttle, but seem reluctant to practice squeezing their brakes!

When it comes to practicing in the wet, just start to brake slowly and progressively, and increase the power of your braking as you get more confident with it. We are ALWAYS talking about a progressive squeeze rather than a grab, as a grab will almost invariably have you on your rse! You'll be surprised how fast you can stop. The main point is that you are practicing it when it isn't critical, so when it is it's easier.

Funnily enough, I need to practice this on the Kwak soon as it's very different to the SV!

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Bear

a grab will almost invariably have you on your rse!

I know; had my 125 a week when grabbing the front brake on some of that overbanding sh1te left 5 of my carpal bones in about 12 pieces. That was kinda sore.

Always trained for how to overcome panic situations, to train in a response, which all the training I've done so far seems to involve how to remove someones teeth instead of panicking.
This seems like the same thing just the bike.