Police Cuts

All impossible for many many reasons. The cost of paying people minimum wage for litter picking for one, much more expensive than giving them dole money, unless you only make them work 10 odd hours a week. Or do you just give them dole money, make them work full time, and scrap the minimum wage? Oh hang on, couldn't do that as we point at other countries and call that exploitation.

The current scheme's are moving in the right direction IMO, ie: getting much tougher on what makes you "Disabled" and removing benefits for those who are not attempting to find work. Do what you are able to do and we'll top you up, otherwise don't do what you are able to do and you won't get a penny from the state, but it will take time to turn around the tide of dole dossers that we have allowed to breed.

Forced labour can't work and shouldn't be allowed. I see no problem in the state offering somebody a minimum wage job once their six weeks jobseekers runs out, and they accept the job or they get jack sh!t in benefits, but that still has to be their choice. You need to get the dole dosser thinking "oh bugger, I need to work or I'm going to be on the streets with no food".

I'd have no problem with much tougher sentences for crime though.

AH I see what your saying, so only those who come asking for money need to be included in my labour idea. Those who are content / have found their own solution will be excluded from the outset.

Ralph:
Brainstorming generally isnt well thought out lol, I supose Id say make them work for minimum wage for the amount of hours they'd need to work in order to acumulate the amount of benifit they're claiming for.

FTR, Im not proposing this as a genuine solution, I dont expect it to get picked up in parliment and utilised Im just nutscratching.

I'm with you Ralph on the dole issue.

Though I do think that National Service is good for 2 years. would install a bit of respect and understanding in todays lot. ( big generalisation I know but I'm sure you get the gist)

I'm with MBK too - Community Service has to be worthwhile, - de icing/snow paths for the elderly, tidying comunal areas, graffit removal the hard way.
I love the idea of stocks and hard labour - tire those in prison out and they won't riot. Get them to earn privilages. Those addicted to drugs will soone be weaned off them when they're out all day doing work. Rehabilition is availabe to those who show improvement during their work and willingness to help ( and all the other stuff) only those on parole get a chance to get the skills needed on the outside world.
as for human rights - you lost them when you committed your crime - you don't get allocated special time/chefs for your religion We are a christian country and you didn't obey our rule therefore you we don't obey yours.

God It makes me sound like a complete hard nose b1tch

Originally Posted by Owenski

AH I see what your saying, so only those who come asking for money need to be included in my labour idea. Those who are content / have found their own solution will be excluded from the outset.

Exactly

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

All impossible for many many reasons. The cost of paying people minimum wage for litter picking for one, much more expensive than giving them dole money, unless you only make them work 20 odd hours a week. Or do you just give them dole money, make them work full time, and scrap the minimum wage? Oh hang on, couldn't do that as we point at other countries and call that exploitation.

The current scheme's are moving in the right direction IMO, ie: getting much tougher on what makes you "Disabled" and removing benefits for those who are not attempting to find work. Do what you are able to do and we'll top you up, otherwise don't do what you are able to do and you won't get a penny from the state, but it will take time to turn around the tide of dole dossers that we have allowed to breed.

If you look back at one of my previous posts I state that work for 5 hours and 3 hours class time. I believe industry calls this kind of arrangement an apprenticeship as the person participating recieves training and personal development assistance.

The rules on what you have to pay apprentices are very different to standard employment, £2.50 in their first year I believe. (I could be wrong, I am no expert on employment law.) Then in order to make the maths work only require them to work every other working day so that existing laws for salaries are met.

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by Bedhead

"Dole Culture" is a bit of a mismomer, it should be "Disability" culture instead, get yourself on high level DLA and you're set for life, free house, free car etc. Whilst no right thinking person would deny the genuine disabled the chance to live a normal life, there are far too many claiming disability that there is relatively bugger all wrong with, I know plenty of them personally.

Personally, I would do away with giving cash for benefits and give vouchers instead, I work beside a bookies and an offies and the place is full of those with nothing to do and all day to do it.

What utter tosh. My wife was on the upper DLA for a year whilst she recovered from cancer. Set up for life no way. Free house! sorry we own ours, worked and paid a mortgage to buy it. nobody offered any help with her housing costs. Free car, ffs she couldn't walk out the house for 6 months. It took her near on 3 years to have the strength and feeling in her feet to control a car. After 6 months, she had to start attending monthly interviews to explain why she was unfit to work. The benefits agency initially required her to attend a medical but then decided cancer was a sufficient reason for her to be ill.

She did return back to work 2 years ago. Sometimes people need a bit of help to get them through serious illness and disability. Just because you are claiming your legitimate and paid for right, it doesn't make you a scrounger

Originally Posted by timwilky

She did return back to work 2 years ago. Sometimes people need a bit of help to get them through serious illness and disability. Just because you are claiming your legitimate and paid for right, it doesn't make you a scrounger

The difference there is she's legitimate, and you and her through your working careers have paid for it.

Originally Posted by timwilky

What utter tosh. My wife was on the upper DLA for a year whilst she recovered from cancer. Set up for life no way. Free house! sorry we own ours, worked and paid a mortgage to buy it. nobody offered any help with her housing costs. Free car, ffs she couldn't walk out the house for 6 months. It took her near on 3 years to have the strength and feeling in her feet to control a car. After 6 months, she had to start attending monthly interviews to explain why she was unfit to work. The benefits agency initially required her to attend a medical but then decided cancer was a sufficient reason for her to be ill.

She did return back to work 2 years ago. Sometimes people need a bit of help to get them through serious illness and disability. Just because you are claiming your legitimate and paid for right, it doesn't make you a scrounger

TW - I don't think Bedhead was aiming his post at people who really need disability allowance. I remember you talking about how poorly your wife was treated and it is appalling that someone who has worked all their life, their husband too, and then they have a genuine, debilitating illness and the system treats them with such disregard.

But tell them you are an alcoholic with a bad back and they will bend over backwards for you and even give you money to purchase your alcohol!

I've also seen it when my gran died. My granpa and my granma worked all of their young lifes, my granma retired fairly early and it was because she suffered fairly badly with arthritis. She died 2 years ago at the age of 65 (not old by any means) after suffering from cancer. When she died, they put all of my Granpa's bills UP! So, he's getting one less pension, living in the same house, a council owned house he has lived in since it was built and worked all his life for, and the council put up his rent and council tax to full. Why? Because he has a forestry pension that he has bothered his backside to work for.

But it's all ok. I walk into a house with leather suite, lovely cream carpet and 52" plasma telly on the wall with two "genetically" unemployed folk sitting. They rant at me "my tax pays your wages." And one day, I will retort "and my tax pays for your fecking telly."

Originally Posted by timwilky

What utter tosh. My wife was on the upper DLA for a year whilst she recovered from cancer. Set up for life no way. Free house! sorry we own ours, worked and paid a mortgage to buy it. nobody offered any help with her housing costs. Free car, ffs she couldn't walk out the house for 6 months. It took her near on 3 years to have the strength and feeling in her feet to control a car. After 6 months, she had to start attending monthly interviews to explain why she was unfit to work. The benefits agency initially required her to attend a medical but then decided cancer was a sufficient reason for her to be ill.

She did return back to work 2 years ago. Sometimes people need a bit of help to get them through serious illness and disability. Just because you are claiming your legitimate and paid for right, it doesn't make you a scrounger

Sorry mate, but it's not tosh, the guy I specifically know has an unspecified back injury that stops him working, doesn't stop him riding a GSXR though, didn't stop him getting a brand new Mitsubishi as a free motor, the wife is on it too, they get their rent paid for because neither can work.

Why bother buying your own house when you can have free rent?

Like I said earlier, NOBODY will deny people who are genuinely sick what they deserve, but there are PLENTY who are swinging the lead, I bet your wife was too honest about it, my mother had a fall and broke her hip badly, then the surgeon made a balls up of plating it, it's made a huge difference to her quality of life, but because she's a brave old cow and doesn't go to the "big doc" wailing that her life is ruined she's ineligible for DLA.

There are ways to beat the system, and people can see it as a lifestyle choice, you'll never own your own house or be "rich" but if your aspirations stretch to a 50' plasma screen and 2 weeks in Benidorm, you'll find it quite comfortable.

[timwilky]

Ralph, MBK. Thank you.

I too am guilty of thinking the system is being abused. It is only when you are new to it you realise just how difficult it can be. I am sure the professional claimers have learned how to use the system to their advantage.

I have a family friend, their son has Aspergers syndrome and he is now being reassessed. The fear is they will decide he is fit to work and yes he is. However, his brain doesn't work like normal people. so if he doesn't want to do something or he wants to go out ridding on buses he will do whatever his brain tells him. Not what others want of him. His chances unless he has a very understanding boss of keeping a job for more than a day are zilch. The system would have to provide him with somebody to keep him on track, in which case it would cost more to put him into employment than it would just to pay him to ride on the bus all day.

Ironically today is my sons last day in his current job. He has been working as a landscape gardener on mininum rate for the past 18 months. But as every other person who has lost their job has gone gardening lately work has dried up and he is last in first out. So can somebody please advise me where he can get a job before he turns into Yosser. Hard working more definitely brawn not brain. He got his last one by walking past every business in the area and knocking on doors. He asked his current employer 6 times before he was taken on. He doesn't want to be a dole scrounger but after mortgage interest payments etc. would probably be better off on the dole than working.

Originally Posted by timwilky

He doesn't want to be a dole scrounger but after mortgage interest payments etc. would probably be better off on the dole than working.

Which is exactly where the problem lies, he's a healthy capable bloke, so the system needs to make him better off working, than on the dole. The only way to do that is to remove the dole money when he's not working, and top up his wages if he's below a certain threshold when he is.