ABS demonstration, on an SV no less

[650]

Originally Posted by Owenski

I'll start with this seen as you like to see facts,
Simple fact, to slow down you need to by applying a breaking force. Agreed?
With ABS the braking force is intermittent, admittedly it pulses at a much higher rate than any human can its still intermittent. Simple physics would state if you can constantly brake with a force just short of that required to lock the wheels you'll slow down quicker than ANY ABS system is able to due to your braking force been constant not intermittent.

All ABS does it automate the "pump the pedal" method of rapid braking, you dont need to be Mansel or Rossi to learn to do this just dont be a retard.

Ah ok, seeing as you put it that way.....

Considering the above video included a professional motorbike rider absolutely mangling the best he could do with none ABS, I'll take that as advice over your theory. You're wrong, s.i.m.p.l.e.

Originally Posted by 650

This is one of those conversations where opinion over rules simple fact. ABS stands for anti lock, at no point should the wheel lock up and it also doesn't cause juddering to the point of causing heavy weight transfer that makes the suspension bounce up and down. Also, whoever you've spoken to about car abs being 'violent' is simply talking ****e, I've had it in every car I've had, which have all been circa 250 to 400bhp monster mobiles and the ABS has kicked in a few times, it doesn't knock the car out of shape at all, it just gives you feedback through the pedal by kicking back.

Of course it causes weight transfer, the bigger the vehicle the higher the braking power and the higher the load of transfer. You on-off brake any moving object and you load-unload via the point of ground contact (hopefully wheels) in the direction of travel.
Who said it knocks a car violently out of shape? I certainly didn't, it does smash the feck out of your foot when that peddle goes
d d d d d d dunk dunk dunk dunk.

[650]

Nah, never has in any of my cars...and certainly never heard any complaints from anyone I know with cars either. ABS isn't going to knock your bike out of shape either, as all THREE of those videos prove.

I never said it doesn't transfer weight either, would take a pretty simple minded mong to not accept that any form of slowing down does anything BUT that. I said it doesn't cause large amount, i.e. dangerous amounts of weight transfer, so the bike's going to come to a stop a lot, lot, lot quicker than any of you Rossi's can do it in.

Originally Posted by 650

And just to drill it home a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl7JQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYSdzBirTAM

the below one NINETY METRES without abs - SEVENTY FIVE on the abs bike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6...eature=related

Suck it up, abs is better.

Hmmm drill it home? Not sure I like your apparent tone but ok I'll carry on.

That first vid, much like the one in the OP shows the rider with none ABS just grab hold of the brakes. This is not a real world test!
No rider goes out in the wet and grabs a fist full that's just nuts. Ok yeah fair enough if your choice is between full on lever to the bar breaking with or without ABS, then ABS wins every time, wet or dry!

Havnt watched the 2nd two yet, will do.

Oh and "suck it up" c'mon you cant be seriously put that, have a bit of respect.

[650]

Hardly disrespect, is it. People just need to accept the fact that ABS isn't a tacky gimmick and is universally (apart from the Rossi's of the internet) accepted as being an almost absolutely necessary safety feature on any vehicle, let alone bikes. I'm not the only one who gets bored rotten, reading the yawn-tastic armchair pundits opinions on things like this. How you can determine if one guy is grabbing a handful and the other isn't, on a video that's in good old 240p is beyond me. But, whatever, opinions are like ********s...we all have them, it's just some stink of **** a bit more than others...in't it.

That 2nd video I've got to admit I didn't quite follow but I gather the jist is that those blue tables show the Non ABS model is out braked by the ABS model by roughly 20% in a straight line. Is that about right?

The 2nd vid was the best by far, told me loads I didnt know about the bikes ABS (I assume the Honda system is pretty much the same as the others?) I like that there would be no juddering, but not sure I like the idea that the brake lever essentially becomes a varied output switch. You dont hydraulically push the piston out like normal instead you tell a computer to do it? The stone age man in me says I don't like this relinquished control.

Do all these systems send power to the back wheels as well, or is that just the Combined system on the Honda?
I like how the first vid just shows the stopping distance saved by been a better rider, lol That poor first bloke 90m+ only for the 2nd to get 59m lol scares me into wondering what I'd get.
Same sort of result as the one above in vid 1, around 20% for joe public but if you're a seasoned/pro sort of rider it makes around 10%.

Sorry I didnt see it'd gone on to the next page and you were replying right back, I've been boss dodging as I wrote so sending broken responces made it easier. I'll do it in one now though.

Originally Posted by 650

Ah ok, seeing as you put it that way.....

Considering the above video included a professional motorbike rider absolutely mangling the best he could do with none ABS, I'll take that as advice over your theory. You're wrong, s.i.m.p.l.e.

My theory as you call it, is fact. Its science fact - yes its fact based on cars where you've got the added stability of 4 wheels but its fact all the same. Constant braking (without skid) will always slow you quicker than ABS, your brake tester in the 3rd vid practically proved that especially when you consider the first bike only brakes through the front, the honda ABS did both wheels! You're welcome to take pro advice over mine, tbh you'd be nuts not to, and to be ignorant to logic that's your choice too I couldnt care less.

Originally Posted by 650

Nah, never has in any of my cars...and certainly never heard any complaints from anyone I know with cars either. ABS isn't going to knock your bike out of shape either, as all THREE of those videos prove.

I never said it doesn't transfer weight either, would take a pretty simple minded mong to not accept that any form of slowing down does anything BUT that. I said it doesn't cause large amount, i.e. dangerous amounts of weight transfer, so the bike's going to come to a stop a lot, lot, lot quicker than any of you Rossi's can do it in.

The video in the OP shows the front bobbing up and down as he brakes, how is this not effecting handling?
lol so as it doesn't cause an amount of shift that YOU deem it dangerous its therefore ok? What if your levels or none-dangerous shift are different to someone elses?

Originally Posted by 650

Hardly disrespect, is it. People just need to accept the fact that ABS isn't a tacky gimmick and is universally (apart from the Rossi's of the internet) accepted as being an almost absolutely necessary safety feature on any vehicle, let alone bikes. I'm not the only one who gets bored rotten, reading the yawn-tastic armchair pundits opinions on things like this. How you can determine if one guy is grabbing a handful and the other isn't, on a video that's in good old 240p is beyond me. But, whatever, opinions are like ********s...we all have them, it's just some stink of **** a bit more than others...in't it.

Drill it home, Suck it up, Ah ok, seeing as you put it that way....., you're wrong, s.i.m.p.l.e.s.
Naaa thats not disrespectful at all. Of course it is! You wouldn't dream of talking to your boss, or your farther/farther in law or davepreston lol that way so of course its disrespectful.
I accept that ABS on bikes isnt the gimic it used to be, that honda system sounds frigging awesome to be honest. But I will NEVER admit it is an "absolutely necessary safety feature" I've been riding on and off road nearly my whole life and never died in a spectacular ball of flame yet. It might be a good aid once its refined enough to hit the mass market but until then i'll see it as a "nice extra"

FYI you can clearly see that first vid of yours shows the guy grab and not release until stationary, take a look it maybe 240p, it could be 24p for all I care but unless that guy is pumping it quicker than the frame rate than he's grabbed a fist full.

You're right, we're all entitled to have opinions just like I posted in post #20
But after my post #26 you seemed intent on forcing your opinion onto me, contrary to what you may think I do not think your opinion stinks. Your understanding of physical forces and your attitude stink but your opinion is otherwise well informed and had your approach been better I may have been more inclined to agree from the off.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Owenski

The video in the OP shows the front bobbing up and down as he brakes, how is this not effecting handling?
lol so as it doesn't cause an amount of shift that YOU deem it dangerous its therefore ok? What if your levels or none-dangerous shift are different to someone elses?

that's because he is controlling the braking using advanced methods as well as the abs. so in fact he wasn't using the full effect of the abs. if he was using the abs properly the bike would not have nodded like that as the pulse of abs is far faster. if you look really hard you can see him pulse the rear brake pedal. and that is why the statement i made about the vid being bull.

now onto abs equipped bikes... yes it works and yes it helps and for the large majority of riders out there it's a god send as most are ham fisted panic jockeys. put abs in the hand of someone who can actually ride properly and it helps even more as demonstrated by the OP vid but like all good riders he was using his knowledge and experience as well and it took over.

having rode bikes with abs i personally cant get to grips with it and do what the rider in the OP vid dose as my brain is telling my hand that the bike is about to skid and i have the exact same problem in a car.

Originally Posted by specialone

I'd like to see an average rider outperform abs (same bikes) in the dry let alone the wet.

I'd choose abs every time.

I agree with SP1, 650 and Lozzo and anyone else who is open to ABS.
It's a benefit not a hindrance, I don't want it made compulsory but I'd take it every time especially if you can select to turn it on or off.

ABS coming our way on the near future, fact.

Originally Posted by The Idle Biker

I agree with SP1, 650 and Lozzo and anyone else who is open to ABS.
It's a benefit not a hindrance, I don't want it made compulsory but I'd take it every time especially if you can select to turn it on or off.

ABS coming our way on the near future, fact.

Lol now thats a fact I agree with