Why? - Page 4 - SV650.org

25-08-12, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallout

That's what I did. Always a chance of doing a Jammy though.

At least he's got plenty of experience of fitting plastics, he won't snap the fairing trying to put it on!

Fallout · 25-08-12, 08:07 PM

I snapped a plastic lug. Fairing is fine .... unlike yours!

Just remembered your bike is red and that woman was probably a cow. Now it all makes sense.

25-08-12, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallout

I snapped a plastic lug. Fairing is fine .... unlike yours!

Just remembered your bike is red and that woman was probably a cow. Now it all makes sense.

lol! But the positive thing to come from that is the wife found a company that do new fairings for £329.99 and she said I can have one WHOOOHOOO!!!! Just need to decide what colour?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

DJ123 · 25-08-12, 08:18 PM

i think you should get your bike painted with the Delorean from back to the future on it

25-08-12, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddyjob

i think you should get your bike painted with the Delorean from back to the future on it

Good idea all I'd need then is some crazy old guy with grey hair to make it run on rubbish, what do you think Mark is it possible?

Mark_h · 25-08-12, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderace

Good idea all I'd need then is some crazy old guy with grey hair to make it run on rubbish, what do you think Mark is it possible?

Well if riding style = optimum fuel then I'm sure your will run fine on it

Just writing a rant ref why yoofs can't fix anything these days....

Mark_h · 25-08-12, 09:04 PM

Well.... where do I start....

Kids these days have it all too easy. If it breaks you get a new one. In my day it was usually broken before I got it and part of the acquisition process was to get it working. Now everything is tamper-proof sealed units and so damn cheap that the tools to fix it would be 10 times the cost of a new one so chuck it and get a new one.

Time moves on. Little Johnny gets a pushbike. In my day it would be at least fourth hand and would be delivered with a puncture. Now it's a brand new piece of full suspension junk for £70. If it gets a puncture it goes in the shed to be replaced at Christmas by a slightly bigger piece of £70 junk. My kids bikes come from the tip. Usually need a puncture repair or just a service. My 7 year old knows how to fix a puncture now. When out for a ride his bottom bracket seized, 10 minutes after coming home he had new bottom bracket bearings (no, he can't quite do this himself yet but he knows what has to be done) Total cost less than a fiver to fix.

Time moves on. Bigger Johnny gets a motorcycle. Now it's pretty hard to get a motorcycle for £70 from Asda so he finally has to get into some maintenance activities. Problem is his Dad never showed him how to fix his bike, the lawnmower, the washing machine because for the last 20 years people have replaced rather than repaired. Bike fails a bit.. Johnny goes to Halfords and buys some tools and goes about randomly rounding off bolts, stripping threads and cross-threading everything as unfortunately he's missed out on the key mechanical skills by not previously working on pushbikes, lawnmowers etc.

So Johnny now has his bike in a right old mess. Has some tools and some nuts which now don't work. A bit of Google-fu and he finds a forum like this.

Now this is actually quite a good forum because once you learn who to listen to and who to just ignore there is some great advice. If you want a laugh try posting on a Renault Forum like I had to when my TDC sensor failed, some of the responses were amazing. For some reason people feel compelled to answer even if they are clueless. Luckily years of rebuilding old jags with my dad gave me the core skills to spot useful info from garbage. Anyway, back to Poor Johnny and his newly ruined bike...

Recently there was a newby posting two problems. Asked for advice for a running problem, got advice from someone who had exactly the same symptoms and recommended a very simple, 10 second fix. OP then went off to do loads of other stuff complaining that the problem persisted and at no time tried the simple, proven recommendation from someone who has had exactly the same problem; once you get a few responses the complexity multiplies and next thing you have your ECU wired up to a scope and start re-calibrating for altitude. Same poster then posts for a simple drive-train fault. Immediate simple advice to check simple things but instead of heading advice, asks again in another section and is suddenly stripping the gearbox down rather than checking oil levels, chain tension and clutch cables all of which can be covered off in 30 seconds.

So to my mind the apparent mechanical ineptitude comes down to a few key points.

1) Until you get into cars/motorbikes, nobody fixes anything anymore so the diagnostic logic and mechanical dexterity are missing as they have not grown up in that sort of world. Most mechanically adept folks will doubtless have a picture somewhere of them being 7 years old covered in grease with a spanner in their hand helping Dad fix something.

2) Modern kit is too hard to work on. You can't guess like you used to. Some little black box somewhere will compensate for any minor tweakes you try to make. Old days you stick a live on a terminal and see what happens. These days you do that, there's a quiet Pfhut noise and you're into £500 worth of ECU. Now have to poke a DVM somewhere and see if the reading is 2.2v or 2.9v, not quite the same as "does the lamp light". Mind you you can now get a DVM for less than a fiver so probably cheaper than a bulb and a test lead anyway.

3) Information is too accessible. Old days you'd go and see Dave. Dave would tell you or show you what to do, then you knew how to do it. Now nobody talks to Dave; they post on the web; dozens of well intentioned people give an opinion. Unfortunately poor Johnny has no experience so randomly picks a response and goes for it. Next thing bike's in bits all over the kitchen table he has 7 new wheels, a lathe on order and still just has a grubby pivot (as-if). Information is too easy to request and too easy to offer with little opportunity to assess the validity of the advice given.

4) This forum has some of the most broadly experienced individuals contributing. Unfortunately they've often forgotten that some time ago they didn't have all the answers. I'll give most things a go but these guys are perfectly happy splitting an engine in two to sort a worn widget where as I suspect most of the users of the forum would not even know how to take their rear wheel off. You then end up with well intentioned advice being offered to someone who has absolutely no ability to action it and then the discussion goes into pages of thrust washer torque settings that may as well be written in Japenese for most readers.

5) People are too lazy to actually read anything longer than a paragraph. Suspect very few people will actually get to the end of this lengthy post. What chance of them actually doing some research into the manual PDF or Haynes when they can just ask for the answer instead. No excuse for not knowing how to check oil level, chain tension, tyre pressures etc. It's just laziness. Too busy playing playstation to actually read some words and consider some actions that may either save them some money or in some cases save their life

So in summary, I think this generation is doomed, but if you have kids make sure you try to teach them how to fix stuff so they don't suffer the same fate.

Rant over ... for now ....

Note:- Hope nobody takes any of these points personally (Apart from Fallout and his grubby pin) we all need help from time to time. Even our very own mechanical Yoda needed someone to show him how to operate a simple tool but all too often you get poor advice being offered to a lazy individual who unfortunately has no experience to fall back on to and no idea where to find Dave.

25-08-12, 09:06 PM

Ha!!!

Bloody superb should have been my OP, cheers Mark!

widepants · 25-08-12, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_h

Well if riding style = optimum fuel then I'm sure your will run fine on it

Just writing a rant ref why yoofs can't fix anything these days....

I think Baron wideboy is about the most talented yoof Ive ever met.That lad can turn his hand to most things , so we're not all that doomed

Fallout · 25-08-12, 09:35 PM

I read it all Mark. I didn't want to read your senile fatherly ramblings, but I read it all.

You're actually right, but a lot of people never had the chance because their dad or Grandad or Uncle weren't mechanically minded, nor were their seniors. Any mediocre mechanical skills I have were all learnt on my todd like Nathan. But I agree our throw away culture is a travesty and if I have kids which aren't horribly mutated I will teach them everything I can about being practical.

Now go back to the home. I'll be asking the orderly why you were let out.

25-08-12, 08:07 PM	#32
Fallout Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 2,983	Re: Why? I snapped a plastic lug. Fairing is fine .... unlike yours! Just remembered your bike is red and that woman was probably a cow. Now it all makes sense. __________________ MotoGoLoco - You knows it The Shed - Suzuki GSX-R 750 K1 \| Triumph Tiger 1050 K6 Fallout Bikes (VLogs, Tutorials, Bike Vids) Fallout Breakbeat (My Music)

25-08-12, 08:18 PM	#34
DJ123 Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 3,245	Re: Why? i think you should get your bike painted with the Delorean from back to the future on it __________________ BMW F800ST

25-08-12, 09:04 PM	#37
Mark_h Member Mega Poster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Fleet, Hampshire Posts: 2,448	Re: Why? Well.... where do I start.... Kids these days have it all too easy. If it breaks you get a new one. In my day it was usually broken before I got it and part of the acquisition process was to get it working. Now everything is tamper-proof sealed units and so damn cheap that the tools to fix it would be 10 times the cost of a new one so chuck it and get a new one. Time moves on. Little Johnny gets a pushbike. In my day it would be at least fourth hand and would be delivered with a puncture. Now it's a brand new piece of full suspension junk for £70. If it gets a puncture it goes in the shed to be replaced at Christmas by a slightly bigger piece of £70 junk. My kids bikes come from the tip. Usually need a puncture repair or just a service. My 7 year old knows how to fix a puncture now. When out for a ride his bottom bracket seized, 10 minutes after coming home he had new bottom bracket bearings (no, he can't quite do this himself yet but he knows what has to be done) Total cost less than a fiver to fix. Time moves on. Bigger Johnny gets a motorcycle. Now it's pretty hard to get a motorcycle for £70 from Asda so he finally has to get into some maintenance activities. Problem is his Dad never showed him how to fix his bike, the lawnmower, the washing machine because for the last 20 years people have replaced rather than repaired. Bike fails a bit.. Johnny goes to Halfords and buys some tools and goes about randomly rounding off bolts, stripping threads and cross-threading everything as unfortunately he's missed out on the key mechanical skills by not previously working on pushbikes, lawnmowers etc. So Johnny now has his bike in a right old mess. Has some tools and some nuts which now don't work. A bit of Google-fu and he finds a forum like this. Now this is actually quite a good forum because once you learn who to listen to and who to just ignore there is some great advice. If you want a laugh try posting on a Renault Forum like I had to when my TDC sensor failed, some of the responses were amazing. For some reason people feel compelled to answer even if they are clueless. Luckily years of rebuilding old jags with my dad gave me the core skills to spot useful info from garbage. Anyway, back to Poor Johnny and his newly ruined bike... Recently there was a newby posting two problems. Asked for advice for a running problem, got advice from someone who had exactly the same symptoms and recommended a very simple, 10 second fix. OP then went off to do loads of other stuff complaining that the problem persisted and at no time tried the simple, proven recommendation from someone who has had exactly the same problem; once you get a few responses the complexity multiplies and next thing you have your ECU wired up to a scope and start re-calibrating for altitude. Same poster then posts for a simple drive-train fault. Immediate simple advice to check simple things but instead of heading advice, asks again in another section and is suddenly stripping the gearbox down rather than checking oil levels, chain tension and clutch cables all of which can be covered off in 30 seconds. So to my mind the apparent mechanical ineptitude comes down to a few key points. 1) Until you get into cars/motorbikes, nobody fixes anything anymore so the diagnostic logic and mechanical dexterity are missing as they have not grown up in that sort of world. Most mechanically adept folks will doubtless have a picture somewhere of them being 7 years old covered in grease with a spanner in their hand helping Dad fix something. 2) Modern kit is too hard to work on. You can't guess like you used to. Some little black box somewhere will compensate for any minor tweakes you try to make. Old days you stick a live on a terminal and see what happens. These days you do that, there's a quiet Pfhut noise and you're into £500 worth of ECU. Now have to poke a DVM somewhere and see if the reading is 2.2v or 2.9v, not quite the same as "does the lamp light". Mind you you can now get a DVM for less than a fiver so probably cheaper than a bulb and a test lead anyway. 3) Information is too accessible. Old days you'd go and see Dave. Dave would tell you or show you what to do, then you knew how to do it. Now nobody talks to Dave; they post on the web; dozens of well intentioned people give an opinion. Unfortunately poor Johnny has no experience so randomly picks a response and goes for it. Next thing bike's in bits all over the kitchen table he has 7 new wheels, a lathe on order and still just has a grubby pivot (as-if). Information is too easy to request and too easy to offer with little opportunity to assess the validity of the advice given. 4) This forum has some of the most broadly experienced individuals contributing. Unfortunately they've often forgotten that some time ago they didn't have all the answers. I'll give most things a go but these guys are perfectly happy splitting an engine in two to sort a worn widget where as I suspect most of the users of the forum would not even know how to take their rear wheel off. You then end up with well intentioned advice being offered to someone who has absolutely no ability to action it and then the discussion goes into pages of thrust washer torque settings that may as well be written in Japenese for most readers. 5) People are too lazy to actually read anything longer than a paragraph. Suspect very few people will actually get to the end of this lengthy post. What chance of them actually doing some research into the manual PDF or Haynes when they can just ask for the answer instead. No excuse for not knowing how to check oil level, chain tension, tyre pressures etc. It's just laziness. Too busy playing playstation to actually read some words and consider some actions that may either save them some money or in some cases save their life So in summary, I think this generation is doomed, but if you have kids make sure you try to teach them how to fix stuff so they don't suffer the same fate. Rant over ... for now .... Note:- Hope nobody takes any of these points personally (Apart from Fallout and his grubby pin) we all need help from time to time. Even our very own mechanical Yoda needed someone to show him how to operate a simple tool but all too often you get poor advice being offered to a lazy individual who unfortunately has no experience to fall back on to and no idea where to find Dave. __________________ Don't want to be the quickest; don't want to be the best; just want to be the one having the most fun. XL125Varadero -> Curvy SV650N-Y -> SV1000N-K3 -> Multistrada 1200s Twin-tastic stuff. Minister for Sustainability *Aliquid prudentissimus delectabiles et intelligentes in adamasset lingua.*

25-08-12, 09:06 PM	#38
Thunderace Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Why? Ha!!! Bloody superb should have been my OP, cheers Mark! Last edited by Thunderace; 25-08-12 at 09:11 PM.

25-08-12, 09:35 PM	#40
Fallout Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 2,983	Re: Why? I read it all Mark. I didn't want to read your senile fatherly ramblings, but I read it all. You're actually right, but a lot of people never had the chance because their dad or Grandad or Uncle weren't mechanically minded, nor were their seniors. Any mediocre mechanical skills I have were all learnt on my todd like Nathan. But I agree our throw away culture is a travesty and if I have kids which aren't horribly mutated I will teach them everything I can about being practical. Now go back to the home. I'll be asking the orderly why you were let out. __________________ MotoGoLoco - You knows it The Shed - Suzuki GSX-R 750 K1 \| Triumph Tiger 1050 K6 Fallout Bikes (VLogs, Tutorials, Bike Vids) Fallout Breakbeat (My Music)