Sorn/technically insured? Help please!

[Ch00]

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988

A road is as follows

(a)F3 , in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes ,

Thanks Choo.

I think this answers it and Glass UK being experts in legal rights of way and legislation for the use of vehicles 'off road' I'd trust something they have published.

http://www.test.glass-uk.org/images/...barsby-pvt.pdf

It seems my neighbor could ride my bike around it without license or insurance, because

• There is no public right of way
• It is not a 'highway' (no through road, etc)
• It is not normally used for public access
• Public access is not normally tolerated by the owners (anybody with no business walking or driving up there is promptly told to hoof it, usually because they are pikeys having a recce)

So it isn't a 'road'.

It also means if any of our kids had a petrol quad, motorbike or go kart, they could use it there too.

[TamSV]

I asked someone more in the know about such things. There was some use of phrases such as "sometimes", "maybe" and "under certain circumstances" and the killer "depending on all the facts". Enough for me to continue recommending being road legal when asked for my advice.

However, on the sketchy information I provided about the situation outlined in this thread, he thought it would probably be excluded from the Road Traffic Act, although an attending Police officer may not agree. I was pointed at this case which is interesting - a priest cleared of drink driving in the church car park.

I wouldn't have thought for a minute this would have been a successful defence. I'm not sure I agree with it in this case - it doesn't seem to me to be in the public interest, but there it is. I do wonder if the court outcome would have been different if injury to a person had been involved.

The case may give you some reassurance though.

Having said that, while you might have a defence, you could still get nicked with all the hassle that entails.

That church example is very interesting thanks. I'd say a church car park was a public place and by Glass definition it does regularly see public use and public use is tolerated, so having learned what I've learned about it here I'm surprised by that verdict too. Still it will have set a precedent wont it?

If for instance I did get a little PW50 for my six year old which is quite likely very soon, it would primarily be for use at Dads and Lads pay and play sites, but if he were having an hour practice on it of a Sunday afternoon (properly silenced its quieter than my lawnmower) and grumpy old git across the road called the police, better to be abreast of the law than ignorant of it.

I totally take your point about the hassle of getting nicked though. I probably wouldnt allow it for more than 10 minutes anyway for fear of a section 59, which is just a license for a copper to write blank cheques because he wants to keep grumpy old git happy, when he was the only person in the least bit bothered by it. Section 59's are intended for teens on scoots at 2am, tossers on crossers in the local park, and car Cruzers doing doughnuts in Tescos car park, but the wording of it allows it to be applied to almost any vehicle use that somebody else happens to object to.

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PS: Grumpy old git lives directly opposite the driveway entrance and has a view straight up the driveway. He's been told in no uncertain terms when he complained that 'it's not a kiddies playground' that it is our private driveway and our kids or any other friends they invite can bike or skateboard round there until their hearts content, but if they so much as set foot on the (totally public) bit of grass opposite (which I cut and maintain BTW) he bangs on the window and shouts 'get off the grass' at them.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by Fordward

tossers on crossers in the local park

Ah, those were the days.

That's how my Dad taught me to ride a bike on his ER185 when I was about 10. He used to have to catch me when I stopped because I couldn't reach the ground.

One word of caution about teaching your kids to ride - by the time I was 14 my Dad's road bike had developed a mysterious petrol evaporation issue. Only resolved when he started noting the mileage.

Hide your keys!

Originally Posted by TamSV

One word of caution about teaching your kids to ride - by the time I was 14 my Dad's road bike had developed a mysterious petrol evaporation issue. Only resolved when he started noting the mileage.

Hide your keys!

Hmm, yeah, well at 14 I had my own so the petrol evaporation issue was from the petrol can that my Dad intended for the lawn mower. I much preferred off road though and the bike wasn't road registered, a dead giveaway if seen by a copper, so quick squirts down country lanes to get from one track to the next was the extent of my road riding. My road driving however was a different issue and the petrol evaporation issue there was from my older sisters VW Polo.

[madcockney]

Regarding that church example: it appears to have used the bit of law that states sometimes it can be private and at other times it is public. The church facilities had been rented by an organisations members. If it had been outside of that then it may have been considered "public". The law has been interpreted differently over the years, (probably due to a court case), as I can remember vehicle insurance underwriters stating that accidents in car parks were not covered as it was private land and not the public highway. These days they appear to pay out in car parks. To my knowledge only higher court cases set precedents, though judges can refer to other cases if they have a similarity in considering their judgement.