Leave the UK?

Personally I'm all for a bit more more proud nationalism.

Dang I shouldn't have read this thread. This afternoon I've been looking at visa applications for all sorts of places. Not Belize though And it isn't difficult to move to any of them...

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Brian

Unless you're in the trade you really don't know how widespread this problem is, and it's massive.
Look around you at how much building work is goin on in re-generation etc, the migrant workers are everywhere, undercutting everyone, undercutting our 'own' workers.

That's one way to look at it. The other is that wages in the building trade are artificially high because of the skill gap, and that now there's an adjustment happening. You mentioned high mortgages- ie, high house prices, caused largely by the high cost of building, and the inability of the industry to meet demand with supply. There aren't thousands of builders being laid off just now after all- there's a wage correction but there's not a shortage of work, the housing industry's grown as fast as it can assimilate new labour (according to the FMB). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it sucks to be part of it but it was always going to happen- whether it was immigrant labour now or internal growth.

You hear the same line from plumbers- they've gone from being able to literally name their price 5 years ago, to competing for work. Not so good if you're a plumber but it's pretty good news if your house is flooding and you don't want to pay £250 in callout fees alone. They've been in a position where they could exploit the shortages, and now they can't. Welcome to the rest of the world. But again, there's not a line of plumbers signing on, just that now they have to compete for work- we're not competing for plumbers.

Don't think I'm nimbying, nearly as many Polish people are going into financial services as have gone into construction.

Originally Posted by robchester

I dont like the idea of these East Europeans taking the money out of the economy

As mentioned above, they don't. take money out of hte economy- they add to it, and send a large chunk of that home, but that still leaves a net gain that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

Baldood can yawn if he wants, arguing based on facts is always more boring than impressive sweeping statements, even when they're wrong This is why politics is s***.

I yawned because you bore the sh!t out of me. You always jump in and have your opinion and it seems you think it's the only one that counts, it isn't. Your facts and figures, which you profess are always correct, don't mean squat to the average Brit. Even when people who are suffering as a direct result of the immigrant influx, i.e builders, myself etc, give people an insight as to what they see day in day out, you come back with your facts and statistics. Well, to be fair, you can cram them. There are people on here who couldn't care less about them. We see what is happening to our country and we don't like it one bit.

This is, to my knowledge, an open forum where anyone can post their opinion on almost any subject. Please don't think you have the monopoly to come here and try to belittle any other person's opinion. You may well know more people on here than i, again, i don't give a toss. I love my country, my fellow Brits and everything that our previous generations fought for in order for us to be able to live the lifestyles which we should be entitled to. This is the last i will post on the matter and you will not bait me again with you incessant piffle. You have your opinion, I have mine, and no matter how many of your "facts" you post here will change them.

Sean

Northy,

I agree with regards to plumbers being able to name their price in the past and now the roles have been reversed, taking advantage of a crisis (peoples homes flooding etc) and yes some of their rates are extortionate (sp?) to say the least.
Also yes, there are no long lines of unemployed builders etc, builders can allways find work, it's just that now they have to travel further finding it, especialy the self-employed 'local' tradesmen etc.

I can't really argue/discuss with you reagarding the economy aspects of it as you seem faily well educated in that matter (much more than myself) and i'd be getting out of my depth.

It's just that I do feel for our own tradesmen who are being undercut and can't afford to go any cheaper in their prices as house-prices/mortgages are so high etc.
It's mainly the tradesmen who rely on work in the Merseyside area (as an example) etc who are finding it 'harder' to find work.

I don't hold any malice or hatred againsed the Poles etc, like I said they have families to care for too, i'd do the same for mine I guess.
I've met many a Pole and never met a nasty one, they've all seemed decent people.

As for as buiding sites go, I guess at the end of the day it is the people who finance/own the sites that are doing the harm by employing the cheapest form of labour, which right now happens to be the migrant workers.
It's all down to profit I guess...

Moving right along...

I spent a couple of weeks in Canada recently, not holiday, family business.

I was truly gobsmacked by how nice the Canucks are. I mean just friendly and helpful like good people are. They remind of myself and they way I treat people and expect to be treated in return.
Sure there are issues there, like anywhere, but sometimes I look around and see that some people here seem to have lost their way at some point in the recent past.

I can't put my finger on it, but it's something to do with the way the UK seems to be adopting the worst aspects of American culture and doesn't remind me of home anymore.

I'll be giving this more thought tomorrow. I have a meeting with management and I'm not impressed with their performance of late. I'm sure they'll have issues with mine but one day I'll find a place to work that understands the symbiotic relationship between boss/worker. It's not even like they own the place...

[northwind]

Baldood, what can I say? They're not my figures, they're Immigration Watch's, anti-immigration poster boys and friends of the BNP. I decided to use theirs since that way, I didn't think anyone could say that my figures are biased.

It's funny that you talk about me not having "the monopoly to come here and try to belittle any other person's opinion"- that's pretty obvious since Iwas responding to you belittling mine. Never quite understood why the people who make the most noise about being entitled to their opinion are the same people who're quickest to take offence when anyone has a different one.

Originally Posted by Brian

It's just that I do feel for our own tradesmen who are being undercut and can't afford to go any cheaper in their prices as house-prices/mortgages are so high etc.
It's mainly the tradesmen who rely on work in the Merseyside area (as an example) etc who are finding it 'harder' to find work.

Yup, it's a rubbish situation to find yourself in. It's the same up here for my line of work... Edinburgh's taken more Polish immigrants per head than any other part of the country I think, and about half in the financial sector. I reckon it's good for the country, which is what this nationalism stuff's supposed to be about, but from a self-interest point of view it's not much fun. And I came into it too late to get the benefits of the boom too The Alamo worked out good for America but I bet that didn't make Mrs Crockett feel any better But, even though it sucks for me I still think it's the right direction to be going in, just now, as long as we plan for what happens next.

Baldood.
You are behaving obnoxiously.
Northwind is a nice guy, and an asset to the site. The fact that he backs up some arguments with intelligence and actual data (which he refs) is not a failing.

This is contrast to your arguments, which demonstrate little connection with reality, and less intelligence. Such arguments are more suited to your local BNP meeting.


I have thought about Canada too. It is unbelievably cold there in places in the winter though.

And William Shatner, he's Cannadian, got 3 of his albums lol

Originally Posted by philipMac

I have thought about Canada too. It is unbelievably cold there in places in the winter though.

I've been to Ontario in the summer, I want to check out BC next...

I do hate one thing about Canada.

Celine Dion!

But then they gave us the Arcade Fire, so we can call it even, even though I still hold Nickelback against them too!