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Old 02-11-10, 09:09 PM   #71
thedonal
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

Fair points. I was chatting about this topic with my Bro recently.

I do think that the whole way of managing 'controlled drugs' needs to be drastically rethought. Hell of a job though and massively multi-faceted.

If the legalisation goes ahead (which it may well), I'm sure that the DEA will be telling the INCB that it is a 'trial scheme' and that they will be 'monitoring things very closely'.

Sadly, the US has had the most destructively pig-headed attitude to drugs for a long time, much as I respect the agents and officers on the front line doing the job, the policy needs to be brought up to date. We're the same in the U of K.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:12 PM   #72
Daimo
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

Quote:
Originally Posted by beabert View Post
You do talk some crap! lol

No, I don't actually. As a former heavy user on weed, and having a good understanding of its effects as I researched a lot into it, I actually know what im talking about.

You on the other hand, should get back to reading the evening standard and the sun for your information.

Expand on what i've written that is "crap" (nice use of language btw, been to the pub?)
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Old 02-11-10, 09:19 PM   #73
thulfi
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by thedonal View Post
Why is cocaine physiologically more dangerous than, say alcohol or heroin?

Cocaine is VERY, VERY widely used (though on the decline). I'd say, on a physical harm basis, cocaine is probably similar to alcohol in some respects. It's more likely to cause a heart attack if too much is ingested in one go, but at the same time, alcohol poisoning is equally dangerous, not to mention the loss of control when you get hammered. Both can do a lot of damage to the liver.

One is legal (and marketed in some very insidious ways- think alcopops) and socially acceptable. The other isn't (depending on the crowds you hang around with!!).
this

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Originally Posted by thulfi View Post
What are you basing the thought of alcohol and cocaine being even similar when it comes to physical harm?
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Old 02-11-10, 09:22 PM   #74
Milky Bar Kid
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by Daimo View Post
No, I don't actually. As a former heavy user on weed, and having a good understanding of its effects as I researched a lot into it, I actually know what im talking about.

You on the other hand, should get back to reading the evening standard and the sun for your information.

Expand on what i've written that is "crap" (nice use of language btw, been to the pub?)
Whilst your experiences are invaluable and very interesting in a discussion like this Daimo, you seem to think that only your answer is right and don't seem to be willing to accept other peoples opinions.

Not saying you have to agree with them, however, my opinion is based on PERSONAL experience and anecdotal evidence from various types of drug users, not the newspapers.

Meh, what does it matter anyway, doubt our Govt will change anything.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:35 PM   #75
thedonal
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by thulfi View Post
this



What are you basing the thought of alcohol and cocaine being even similar when it comes to physical harm?
Where's that chart from? How is it measured? What do the 1, 2 and 3 breaks relate to? Looks rather arbitrary to me.

From (old) personal experience and observation, I would not class cocaine as considerably more dangerous than alcohol. Some of this can be measured in after effects, I'm sure some could be measured in long term use. Of course, this can also vary from person to person.

I could be completely wrong, but from the above mentioned personal experience, I do not believe that cocaine is seriously more dangerous than alcohol. I do know that it can turn nice guys into complete ****holes though!

Last edited by thedonal; 02-11-10 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:37 PM   #76
Milky Bar Kid
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by thedonal View Post
Where's that chart from?

From (old) personal experience and observation, I would not class cocaine as considerably more dangerous than alcohol. Some of this can be measured in after effects, I'm sure some could be measured in long term use.

Cocaine is also not instantly addictive in the way opiates can be (heroin, for example).
Out of curiosity, is that a medically trained opinion or just an educated guess?
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Old 02-11-10, 09:40 PM   #77
Daimo
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

Hold up luv, where have i said that.

I wrote a good debatable reply, and this person comes in with a pointless comment.

You have experience with people who have had problems. That to me is like say (example) a mother who's lost her child in a car crash due to them speeding. The mother then goes out and starts a campaign that speeding is dangerous. Ignoring the fact the child was probably driving far to fast in the first place.

Having that you have explained nothing about your experience really, I can only presume and make an assumption that your, or others, are looking to blame the drug, and not the individuals who may have been the cause of their own downfall. That is obviously on an assumption.

Also, all your conversations with heroin addicts, sorry but I can only laugh at them blaming a non addictive drug for them moving onto stuff like that. Utter tripe, those people have deeper physcological issues and blaming a mild drug for a stepping stone onto heroin is utter rubbish. Not one person I know (and I also can name a LOT of people) or have ever know has blamed weed for moving onto a much harder substance. Like you would trust what a heroin user has to say. Sure lets cook something up and inject ourselves. Its only a few steps from rolling a spliff isn't it

Im not saying im right, or wrong, im saying my experience, which is a lot. If someone comes back with no valid debatable argument (of which you didn't btw!), and writes a simplistic "your talk crap" comment, then I will reply in a manner that that person has to be spoken on.

But im the brain fried idiotic mindless ex drug taker.

Last edited by Daimo; 02-11-10 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:42 PM   #78
thedonal
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid View Post
Out of curiosity, is that a medically trained opinion or just an educated guess?
It is from an educated guess. So- as stated, I could be wrong.

But I'd be curious to understand the background behind the chart too.

Following my post edit too. It is often documented that it generally takes 1 hit of heroin to cause addiction. From my personal experience and seeing a (fairly large) number of people around me, I do not believe that cocaine is instantly physiologically addictive in the same way. And regular use brings tolerance, requiring more to get a 'hit'.

That doesn't mean that people don't get addicted- many people do. Quite often, though, with coke, it's more psychologically addictive (I guess you could argue that that is also physiologically addictive- western medicine is only now starting to make the leap that mind and body are connected)

I did have a quick search for some facts to back my 'opinion' up, but sadly, much on either side of the drugs debate is very biased, so it would be hard to easily choose reliable facts.

Last edited by thedonal; 02-11-10 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:46 PM   #79
thulfi
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by thedonal View Post
Where's that chart from?
Since you asked

Nutt, D.; King, L. A.; Saulsbury, W.; Blakemore, C. (2007). "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse". The Lancet 369 (9566): 1047.

Last edited by thulfi; 02-11-10 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 02-11-10, 09:51 PM   #80
thedonal
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Default Re: California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

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Originally Posted by thulfi View Post
Since you asked

Nutt, D.; King, L. A.; Saulsbury, W.; Blakemore, C. (2007). "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse". The Lancet 369 (9566): 1047.
Fair enough. I stand corrected!
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