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Old 25-02-15, 01:20 PM   #11
dw22
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Pob View Post
Indeed, you are spot on with that and the experience that Black & White Bikes are offering will be totally different to what you get at a No Limits or Focused Events trackday.

Firstly, it is just for novice riders. Trackdays have evolved over the years to be quite a 'professional' event. If you don't turn up in a van with a track prepped bike on paddock stands and tyre warmers then you stand out as a 'newbie'. Nothing wrong with that but it can be quite daunting and has put first timers off. With novice riders only, you'll be among similarly experienced people.

Secondly, the instruction is personal. You will be allocated an instructor to work with you all day long, from the first session to the last. You won't be left on your own to make mistakes and get disheartened, your instructor will work with you to improve you performance every step of the way. You do share this instructor with 2 other people but the group of 4 of you will be out together. Other trackday organizers do not offer this level of instruction.

Thirdly, the sessions are 30 minutes long which is 50% longer than the other days. This gives the advantage that the instructors can bring their group of 3 pupils off the track for a minute or 2 to discuss issues, make some improvements and swap the order around in the group and then get back out on track. 3o minutes is a long time and these short breaks will help the learning process massively.

Fourthly, there will be just 60 pupils at the track, that's half the amount that would be at a 'normal' trackday.

Then there are additional services available for FREE! There will be a suspension expert available to help you with bike set up. This would normally cost you 50. Also there will be a fully qualified ACU Scruitineer who is there to help you with everything from basic motorcycle maintenance to full race preparation. And of course there will be a tyre expert on site to help you with tyre issues or even just get you tyre pressures set correctly.

When you take all that into consideration, hopefully you'll see that actually it's remarkable good value for money.
I can understand where you are coming from, I first did my TD in novice on my road gsxr 600 and got a NL instructor to follow me for 2 session which helped me out greatly with my lines. On normal TD's you also have a novice only group which also you'll be among similarly experienced people.

Do you really think 30 minute sessions are beneficial to a complete novice? I personally struggled with 20 mins on track on my first few TD's, it's physically and mentally tiring. Just a suggestion...

Suspension service sounds great, so does the ACU scrutiniser however I doubt the novices are going to want to hear about full race prep, yet. You also get tyre services at normal TD's, to help with issues/correct pressure.

I do think you are offering a good service but personally not worth that much.

Take a look at NL offering a ladies only trackday with big name Maria Costello;
Limited no. of bikes on circuit
7 x 30 min sessions
Lunch included
Instruction
ex GP track
and for only 199...
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Old 25-02-15, 01:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Good idea. I know Robert Bensley of the BWM club also does organise Road Bike days which is attractive to novice TD'ers but I don't think the tuition or time on track is different to regular track days. You do have to turn up on the bike, no slicks, track bikes etc.

In regard to other schools or TD companies that provide/hire bikes, I've used rented track bikes previously (excess can be scary especially as the ones I've hired you get the full hit even if you break a 10 lever). Whilst they were decent modern bikes, they are not yours, the tyres might have had dozens of heat cycles and therefore grip is not predictable (not such an issue with Ron Haslam as they use road tyres but many companies use track day go'ers used track orientated tyres so can be less than perfect) and the bike is not set up for you so the first sessions can be just adjusting and getting used to it. I don't think I ever felt like I could go 100% (of my abilty) on a loaned bike.

A negative about unsupervised novice only days is the range of ability you might have in each group, poor lines and unpredictable behaviour/braking/concentration and a lot of companies put 40 in each group for 20 mins max, so this package looks pretty good on the face of it.

I think the best event I ever did was Nurburgring where you followed an instructor and no overtaking within the group (you overtook other groups once indicated to do so). At first I thought this would be limiting but it was amazing how quick we all become in 2 days.

Anyway, I like the initiative and will be interested in the feedback too. If B&W start doing similar packages for inter/fast will certainly be interested.
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Last edited by Balky001; 25-02-15 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 25-02-15, 01:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Quote:
Take a look at NL offering a ladies only trackday with big name Maria Costello;
Limited no. of bikes on circuit
7 x 30 min sessions
Lunch included
Instruction
ex GP track
and for only 199...
But what are you paying for, the one big name trying to teach everyone OR good personal tuition?

Until we get feedback I think it too early to judge where the best value for money actually is.
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Old 25-02-15, 01:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

I've done 3 track days so far, the first was an MSV Novice only day at Snetterton on the 300 circuit. After that day I could have easily sold my bike and given up on the whole TD thing. There were race trucks there with a couple of tyre warmer shod race prepped bikes under awnings, clearly some sort of mix up as the MSV site clearly states no warmers or slicks on Novice Only days. Apart from the one classroom session (which was bossed by a few lads who clearly knew how to ride mostly **** taking), there was very little in the way of support or guidance for the obvious novices amongst us.
My next two TDs were with No Limits and although they do offer free tuition I chose not to approach them, probably just me being the type not to want to cause a fuss and just keep my head down I just got on with the day.
I feel that before I go and do many more TDs I need to be guided, helped, taught whatever the word is, before I develop bad habits or do something daft!
The fact that I'll have an instructor with me all day helping me develop as a rider and to give me feedback that will hopefully stay with me for many TDs to follow, fills me with confidence already and I've not even done a sighting lap yet!!
On top of that there'll be suspension and tyre support for free, I promised myself that on my next TD I'd pay to get mine set up properly, so that's 40/50 saved already.
Also with my SV becoming more Supertwin spec an ACU chap to chat to will also be a bonus.
I'm looking at it this way, I could do another 3 TDs this year and be in the same place, confidence, skill wise and picking up bad habits or kidding myself thinking I'm improving when its all in my head, and be almost 300 down.
This well thought out package was almost tailor made for TD riders like me, in the very early stages of learning lines, braking, apexes, general race craft really. I for one think its 240 well spent and I'll be back on here and TDR telling anyone that'll listen what a rewarding day I had, I'll be f*cked for days afterwards but I know I'll have had a great day.
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Old 25-02-15, 01:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

I've done 3 track days so far, the first was an MSV Novice only day at Snetterton on the 300 circuit. After that day I could have easily sold my bike and given up on the whole TD thing. There were race trucks there with a couple of tyre warmer shod race prepped bikes under awnings, clearly some sort of mix up as the MSV site clearly states no warmers or slicks on Novice Only days. Apart from the one classroom session (which was bossed by a few lads who clearly knew how to ride mostly **** taking), there was very little in the way of support or guidance for the obvious novices amongst us.
My next two TDs were with No Limits and although they do offer free tuition I chose not to approach them, probably just me being the type not to want to cause a fuss and just keep my head down I just got on with the day.
I feel that before I go and do many more TDs I need to be guided, helped, taught whatever the word is, before I develop bad habits or do something daft!
The fact that I'll have an instructor with me all day helping me develop as a rider and to give me feedback that will hopefully stay with me for many TDs to follow, fills me with confidence already and I've not even done a sighting lap yet!!
On top of that there'll be suspension and tyre support for free, I promised myself that on my next TD I'd pay to get mine set up properly, so that's 40/50 saved already.
Also with my SV becoming more Supertwin spec an ACU chap to chat to will also be a bonus.
I'm looking at it this way, I could do another 3 TDs this year and be in the same place, confidence, skill wise and picking up bad habits or kidding myself thinking I'm improving when its all in my head, and be almost 300 down.
This well thought out package was almost tailor made for TD riders like me, in the very early stages of learning lines, braking, apexes, general race craft really. I for one think its 240 well spent and I'll be back on here and TDR telling anyone that'll listen what a rewarding day I had, I'll be f*cked for days afterwards but I know I'll have had a great day.
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Old 25-02-15, 01:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Is there an echo in here?
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Old 25-02-15, 02:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Bunkle's experience is fairly typical of novices on TDs. The organisers make some effort to put real novices in the novice group but there are plenty of people who have just booked it because the day was full in inters/fast or they're just knobs, and the TD organiser either does nothing or doesn't have space in the other groups to shift them out. The real novices tend to ride all over the track anyway but adding in a few faster ones to scare them doesn't really help. Even as someone who's done a fair few days, I still feel like they mainly just take your money and send you off to do what you like.

DW22 that does sound like fair value, though as said there will still be a limited number of instructors, you are mainly paying for extra track time. At Silverstone last year they had a premium group with Troy Corser, was basically the same as a normal TD but he did some talks on technique and was out riding so talked to a few people.

I think there is a gap in the TD training market; people want to try them out but it can be quite daunting for various reasons, and once they have taken the plunge, they run out of ways to get better by just riding around on their own. The market itself will tell you how well this goes down, your price positioning etc. There are also plenty of people who don't give a crap how good their riding is, they just do it anyway, but they're already catered for.
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Old 25-02-15, 04:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

Look at the exsses if you drop the hire bike. Best get a cheap bike and you can walk away from it (ok this may be limp in some cases).
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Old 25-02-15, 09:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

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If B&W start doing similar packages for inter/fast will certainly be interested.
This is definitely something we will be looking into for future dates but again with an instructor dedicated to a small group of pupils.

The comment from Bunkle about not wanting to bother the 'free' instructor is typical and that's one of the first things I thought about when wanting to set these days up. It's a very 'British' attitude isn't it! But told to be instructed all day and that's exactly what we will do.

And also, another sweetener I forgot to mention. We have booked a photographer and due to him just trying to make a name for himself in this tricky market, all the photos will be available free of charge. No watermarks and high quality photographs that you can use on Facebook etc. The only request is that you credit the photographer. That's another 20 or 30 saved.
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Old 25-02-15, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: Novice Friendly Track Days

It gets better Paul!
I'll be calling to book tomorrow morning bud.
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