Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Can I raise an issue . a "concern"

I don't want to upset anyone and apologise if this comes across as wrong.

I contemplated posting this after the funeral when the initial hurt and pain and grief and even anger have had an outlet and things have calmed down from the initial shock of Dave passing .


I knew Dave as well as many on here but not as well as some.

However , point remains I am not part of his family,

I want to be at the funeral, I want to pay my respects, but and I am going to be honest here -
I dont want to lunge,
I dont want to wave a yellow balloon etc etc
I think my / our presence there is duty enough to represent the org. I think a biker representation is a bloody strong thing for his mum to agree to (if I understand Mogs' post correctly she has said it must be so)

so , just all the bikes being there and us in numbers would in my opinion suffice.

I got sucked in by the emotion and indeed I have offered suggestions of yellow t ****s etc , but a post by someone after the Lunge suggestion and a thread started for some Happy chat .. really made me sit back and think - Thanks Mike, Thanks Tim .


We do not have monopoly on grief for Dave , He has family, close friends, childhood friends, other local not national forums etc etc . I dont think we need to stand higher or louder or more yellow to prove to anyone that we loved him more or miss him more.. a direction to the org, as Mogs has done on our behalf is sufficient I feel. In time, his family and close friends will have the strength to view the pages and outpourings and pictures etc and realise that Dave had a lot of friends that they didnt know and the commets and donations and page views in such a short time should be memorium to him from the ORG.

Yes of course I would wear a yellow armband, or tie a yellow ribbon to my bike , but in my opinion, upsetting as it may be we have to put our Grief aside, or rather subdue it and look at the bigger picture.


I hope that is not taken the wrong way - it is just a point to be pondered.

Please don't react and type immediately, sit and think




It seems that Hovis has been omni present since his passing, goodness he was on here enough before ! (bless him) I used to pop on every day to see what the argumentative bugger had posted and what reaction he got , now there are no new posts from him and yet his name is everywhere..

I miss him , I liked him, lots of you closer than me loved him - I never ever thought of him until I read his posts on here, I didnt sit in my dressing gown like I am now and not be bothered to make a brew when he was around , and yet now, this guy I only meet now and again and have a laugh with has had such a profound effect on me.. maybe it is making me question my own mortality and my life and my biking and take stock - I don't know..

but what I do know is it has affected me and I also know from experience that it will subside, not go away , but it will turn in to a warm feeling when I think of him, that;s cos I am old and I have had experience of lost loved ones before . I won't stop thinking of him but I wont be thinking of constantly as I am now.

And what I do know is that it has affected others too, and this org is a valve, an outlet for the pain and grief and the desperate feeling of uselesness and so , efforts are made to fill the void, to represent, to show the world that we had a good friend called Hovis who we lost.. but:

again I may be out of turn and I may be too early and next week might have been a better time to post my musings but :

I am not sure if AR 10 should become such a major Hovis memorium, talk of yellow everything, a life size bread sculpture, minutes silences or minutes applause, releasing balloons... etc etc ... it is all good it is all nice but I hope that in this time of grief we come to realise that maybe such thoughts are at the moment cathartic and maybe after we , and moreover his family have laid him to rest next week the populous may decide that AR10 the Hovis TT and folk drinking a salute to him over the weekend in their own way at their own pace may suffice.. Hovis was a big character , he was one of the main organisers of the AR10 but he alone was not the Org, none of us are more than the org individually but "the sum of the parts" etc .......

I am not being aggressive, offensive or dispassionate , I don't want to insult and I certainly dont want to fall out with his closest mates on here, but maybe because I was not as close as some to Dave I can take an overview not so clouded by tears and anger and say :

Ideas that have been posted are knee jerk reactions, initial thoughts and very ostentatious but understandable at this time.

Maybe the melee of the last week has born ideas that whilst with good intent and admirable are not entirely practical or even dare I say rational.

We need to do Dave proud, we need to represent the org and we need to recognise we have lost a good friend, both at the funeral and at the AR but we can do that in a way that is not so "out there" and that its very self dilutes its reason for being - and of course respects his family and his memory


My fellow orgers , close friends of Dave on here, you all know I am a nice guy (deep down) I mean no offence and I have pondered over posting this all night- I have not slept and am sat in my dressing gown as I type.

I dont want to fall out with anyone over this post. I just want to try and approach the matter from a different angle, it is not a competition, it is not a chance to show who loved Hovis the best - it is an opportunity to be united and respectfully show our grief , our friendship and our love


Well, I took the risk, but I hope it's worth it , as it was becoming a snowball that was gatheing too much too fast and maybe needs to slow down .

If I get PM's saying I am out of order If it means some folk think I am wrong then in the words of the immortal - "Faarrrkinn Unlluucckeeee" on me


With love

Quiff. x

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Well done Quiff, been thinking the same but to be honest a bit wary of posting anything becaue I'm a bit of a coward

I just want to be there on my bike, not make a big scene when turning up, no gimmiks, be quiet when I should be, not bounce the bike off the limiter even if that's what he used to do, let his family know he was a big part of us and do the fella proud.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

cheers Dan,

I only saying what a lot of folk are thinking..








maybe ?

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

i think thats a very good, sensible post Quiff.

i hope others react rationally, and i'm sure they will. im sure many will agree and some will disagree. like you i too have lost friends in the past and the imediate aftermath of we'll do this that and the other in memory was indeed a knee jerk, and of course affectionate and geniune, reaction.

as you've said others knew him better, so maybe my post is a pointless one, but i guess it is said in response to your concerns over upsetting people.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Spot on Quiff.

Nobody here should take offence to what you have written as you speak from the heart and all is ment with the best of intention.

We all miss the little bugger and yes we want to do him proud but we should sit and read over and over what Quiff has written as it makes sense.

Cheers for having the bollox to post this Quiff

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

My knee jerk reaction is to say 'Quite, I agree with you'.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Fully support what you are saying mate.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

I have thought the exact same thing's as you Quiff.

I believe Hovis would want us to live it large at the Hovis TT and that's what I intend to do. I will be attending his funeral, but it should be for his family to say goodbye etc.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

It is right, I had a discussion with another member briefly yesterday, but I think it seems fitting to do things properly and respectfully.

You know what though Quiff, the little buggar will be sitting up there probably thinking, 'bunch of poofs'.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Said it all in my PM.....

Respect you for posting it! x

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Dave, don't worry......I completely echo your sentiments. I've had a few PM's go back and forth with various people over ideas, only to think and PM back and take it back, realising that it's not the best way.

I have said on many threads that anything we would like to do in honour of Dave HAS to have the express permission of his mum and family because anything else would IMO be totally disrespectful.

This includes all the talk about the funeral, Lily, Drew, Viper, Fizz and Stretchie will already know from PM that another "thing" is something I think should be given a little more time. The Half Marathon was something I started to get the wheels in motion as Lily has contacted Velindre and IF we get the go ahead, it's all in place, but as with everything else, it's up to his family. They may have already decided to to the run in his place and nominated someone to do it, we can't just barge in and take over.

As you have said, others have said and I said myself as early as Sunday, we do not have the monopoly on grief for our beloved bread boy.

We need to show our love....not shout it.

Quiff, you have PM and I'll love you always....big hugs coming xxx

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff I agree wholeheartedly that at the funeral we need to consider Dave's family's grief and their wishes, and the occasion should be treated accordingly.

However, by the time the AR comes around, a lot of the grief and anger will hopefully have subsided and it may be just as appropriate to celebrate Hovis' memory in whatever way we feel suits, be it yellow balloons, whatever really. After all, the AR is a .Org event and a place where we do have a monopoly on expressing our feelings towards him.

I, like you, knew Hovis better than some on here but not as well as others, so I think the best thing would be for us to take the lead from those who were closest to him and I think they should organise whatever tribute they feel is most fitting. People can join in as much or as little as they like with those tributes/celebrations depending what they feel comfortable with

I think there's a lot in your OP that is spot on though mate and needed saying. :thumbsup:

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

good post Quiff, we all know you mean it from only one point of view, that being a respectful one.

Takes a lot to post what you did mate.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Without knowing details of the accident, will orgers on bikes at his funeral be a bit raw for his family or are they in favour of it?
Phil

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Well thought out Quiff. Hovis' passing has without a doublt sent a shockwave through the org, but you're right that even though he was larger than life here, there was more to his life than us.

People cope with grief and shock in differerent ways - I'm prone to go into 'organising and being practical' mode myself for the need of feeling of some use at a difficult time, so I understand why some may want to do that.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Hovis' mum wants a bikers funeral.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

if we do anything to remember him it should be on an org rideout/meetup.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Ok fair enough, she must be a strong lady, i could imagine other parents feeling the opposite.
Phil

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

I was worried it would start arguments and thought he wouldnt want that ..

then laughed and thought what am I saying, he would faarrkiinnn lovvee it

:D:D:D the little fool...

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, totally agree. Well posted.

I felt kind of weird personally, I never met Hovis face to face but his passing has certainly affected me.

Mike

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, thank you. I have been feeling this way too, hence why I have done my upmost to contact the other forums and people in Hovis's life. This has been a very rewarding experience for me as I have realised that the org was not his life. His life was everyone he knew. I have also had the pleasure of messages on Facebook from those he worked with and some of his other chums.

However, first and foremost come his family, even before those of us who knew him best on here. This is why anything that has been discussed outside the forum has been handled with dignity and honour and will be discussed with the family when the time is right.

Quiff - you have my respect for posting, as it is very hard to do that at a time like this. I know you well enough to know how much this would have made you think, be concerned and mull over before posting. But never ever ever be worried about posting how you feal or what you feal is right......I can 100% say with pride that this is NOT what Hovis would have wanted. He respected you for being as outspoken as him and I know he has enjoyed some of your contraversial threads in the past.

So can I please ask all the org, lets try and focus less on how we can represent Hovis from here on in, but rather focus on simply remembering him in our hearts. Remembering his family, his freinds. We don't need balloons etc to do that.......simply go and look at the photo thread.

I hope to see as many of the org at the funeral as possible, not in yellow (unless they are your bike colour or leathers etc), no balloons, no revving (unless asked), no arm bands......simply being there, as a showing of solidarity for his Mum.

Please all raise a coffee / glass of water or whatever you drink at this time of the day and simply say...... "Hovis's Mum - My thoughts are with you".

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

My feelings are the same. I wont be attending the funeral, its not my place, i didnt know him personally. But he was part of my life through the .org and brought much humour to my days.
I have paid my respects through my donation to his half-marathon charity. Im sure he'd appreciate that more.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Thanks Drew.

Only one person has more Love for him than any of us and with it a bigger loss, his mum,

My thoughts are with her .

I hope things are more rational after the funeral and I for one will be returning my avatar to my normal one after I have said a last goodbye, maybe the forum will slowly get back to "normality" too.. but yea, there will be a hole there.. a big gaping yellow hole.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, respect mate. Very eloquently put.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff....you're just a dude. I didn't change my avatar, felt a bit guilty about it for a bit and then thought no......he stopped me changing it once before, so I'll leave it.

Drew.....well said too x

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff mate, an eloquent post and really does articulate what I have been feeling. I know others had that uneasiness to about OTT 'tributes'. Completely agree with the post, chapeau to you for posting.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Perhaps the ideas for "revving it up" or wearing yellow tshirts are something to bear in mind for the actual AR event next year. Everything should be toned down for the funeral, it is a time for paying our respects in an almost sedate manner, for the sakes of family members and other friends as well as the .org. It is a great thing for his mam to agree to a "biker's funeral", but there may also be others present who don't agree with such things or just don't like bikes. If that's the case then really that's their issue but we should still take that into consideration and treat the occasion as it is meant to be without drawing too much attention to the fact we're there. Although i reckon Hovis would have wanted as much fuss as possible made, we have to think about other people.

Just my tuppenceworth. I agree the Breadboy needs as good a sendoff as can be possibly managed and will be more than willing to participate in whatever is decided, just trying to see things from a different perspective.

Fab post btw Quiff #hug#

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Excellent post Quiff.
well said that man.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Good post Quiff, wholeheartedly agree.

Saying that, I can quite understand in the hours after the event that peoples emotions would lead them to the suggestions that were made.

G

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, much respect mate.

I can't agree more that it's a funeral not an org ride-out. I only met Hovis once at the Peaks ride-out and whilst he appeared to be a stand up guy, I didn't spend enough time with him to form a friendship, therefore please excuse the fact that I'm not going to attend the funeral. It's only because I don't think it's appropriate.

There are those on the forum who have suffered the loss of a good friend, there are others who want to go and pay respects to a man who they've known for a while, but have only really met on ride-outs, and then there are guys like me who have met him, but didn't really know him at all, and lots of other people in between.

I prefer to leave those who have suffered a loss alone to grieve in peace on the day of his funeral. A persons tragic death is not a bandwagon to be jumped on. I'm not suggesting anybody has because I don't know how well everybody else knew him, just explaining how I feel about it and explaining why other than an RIP and one memory from the peaks, I've stayed out of the threads, facebook groups, avatar & signature changing, etc. It's only because I feel it's not my place.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

I've said goodbye in private today. I went to church, lit a candle, Pegasus too. Left a request for a prayer at the next service. That was my private wish.
However I will be at his funeral for the respect of his family, and do what they wish rather than my own wishes.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Spot on post Quiff :cool:

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Couldn't agree with you more Quiff

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

And I echo your sentiment. Hovis was a massive character on here, so whether people met him or knew him well or not, a loss is being felt.

The only one thing I will say as I have had a few PM's from people feeling weird at being so upset when they never met Dave is this:-

We spend our time on different forums, internet sites and at different social events all the time. On here, many many people that chatted with Hovis, but never met him will be feeling this loss and I would not want those people to feel that their emotions are misplaced. It is a massive shock and his presence will be missed.

Not saying that anyone has jumped on the bandwagon and not disagreeing with Ralph, as well all know people that like to get involved just for the sake of it and that is a general comment...not directed or related to this forum or its members.

The funeral is a time for family and friends to pay repsects, anyone that wants to do that is welcome to on the wishes of Hovis' mum. What I would say is, if you want to go, go. Don't stop yourself because you feel it might be wrong to be there for any reason.
On the other hand, if you knew Hovis well and don't want to go....don't. Grief, at any level is personal and so I guess what I am saying is that we should all do what we need to do to make things easier on ourselves and support the ones around us.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Absolutely, I wouldn't want to put anyone else off going, just because I don't feel it appropriate for me to do so. All I was saying about the bandwagon, was that I didn't want to be guilty of jumping on one.

Paying respects is a perfectly valid reason to go to a funeral. I don't think I've ever been to a funeral where I didn't think "who are all those people standing at the back?". At my Gran's funeral recently I had old ladies introducing themselves saying they worked with her 50 years ago and had read of her death in the newspaper announcements, and I was touched that they taken the time out of their day to be there. In fact family are usually pleased to see the number of people who turn up. Trouble is though, and I think the root of Quiff's concern, is that a lot of people arriving in a single group may risk "taking over".

Anyway, I'm not going to post any more because this really is nothing to do with me. I only posted to show how much respect I hold for Quiff for having the guts to start this thread, and explain why as a forum member for 3 years, who has spent a weekend away with Hovis recently, I wasn't going to go myself.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, respect, 'nuff said

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Firstly, Quiff, spot on post mate. As everyone else has said from what I can see.

Pretty much my sentiments on the whole subject.

I only met Hovis a small number of times, but talked to him a fair amount via this site - usually exchanging PMs whilst we were both winding people up. So whilst I can't say I knew him, I did get on with him well.

As some will of read recently, Hovis' passing has actually made me glad I'd sold my bike. It's made me re-evaluate what I was doing, and frankly, recently, I'd been taking stupid risks on the bike. If I hadn't sold the bike before the news of Hovis' passing, I'm confident it would of gone subsequently. There's more important things to consider than my enjoyment on two wheels right now.

The above said, if (and only if) the family decide to extend an invitation to all .Orger's for the funeral - I'll be making an effort to get there. I'll also make every effort to get there by bike - but I feel it would only be fitting to turn up on an SV (unless the family extend the invitation but stipulate no bikes). Luckily, I still have the use of one. At this stage, I can't make any promises as to attendance, but then, I've not seen it written that that's the family's wishes. All I've seen is that his mum wants a bikers funeral.

So for now, I'll just sit back & wait for details to come out.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiffster - rispek for the post

I too have wondered if Hovis was becoming the Lady Di of the org - not sure that he would have wanted that :D

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Quiff, I have given this much thought I too do not wish to give offence. Thanks for making these very valid comments. I have to admit I am/was getting concerned.

Funerals are for the living not the dead, what Dave would or would not have wanted is only of secondary concern. As a group we must do nothing to upset Mrs F or the immediate family.

I visited Mrs F on Sunday, just 24 hours after the event. I went because I felt it was the right thing to do personally, not as the Orgs representative. I did pass on that there are many people on the org that thought highly of Dave and that if there were anything I or we could do then all she need do is ask. Mrs F brought up the subject of the type of funeral (I was avoiding it) and it was she that suggested bikers in all the kit and bikes attend.

I really think we should allow Mr F the opportunity to recant her decision on a Bikers funeral.

We need to keep in mind a funeral albeit a Biker funeral is not a rideout.

Many of Hovis' close friends will be meeting tommorrow, I am sure this will be discussed then, face to face, where nuances that do not transmit over the web will be understood.

Re: Hovis and the AR and grief.
 

Very good point Kevin.

I second the point this should not have a rideout ethos, even if we do ride there in groups. I find it very hard to articulate that we need to behave 'properly' to respect the family's grief, so I'm glad others more eloquent than I are able to do it.