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-   -   Brake probs (with pictures!) (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=73692)

goof 26-06-06 08:29 PM

Brake probs (with pictures!)
 
Covered this on a thread with Scoobs the other night, just adding pics into the mix!

Put on new pads but for some reason the caliper housing seems to stick out as much as the pad (shown with 1 & 2 ) - #1 also had a clip on it to hold the inner pad in place but I removed this to see if I could get any joy. As you can see I didn't, it's contacting with the disc :roll:

http://upload4.postimage.org/484557/brake.jpg

http://upload4.postimage.org/484561/disc.jpg

goof 26-06-06 10:20 PM

Thanks for the input but I don't see how it can be anything to do with the forks when I can see that the brake housing (#1 & 2) exceeds the line of the pad when it's off.

Blue Flame 27-06-06 12:29 AM

No offence but have you fitted them the right way round. IE have you tried to put the left caliper pads on the right caliper and vice versa. !!!

Itching 2 go 27-06-06 12:58 AM

TBH I cant really see what you are saying.

Have you pushed the pistons back in properly?
have you pushed the sliding bracked back properly?

northwind 27-06-06 09:19 AM

I can't figure it from the pics... The gap with the pads looks wrong to me, but I can't figure out why. Sorry, not much help! If you want a second opinuionj I can probably fire over one night this week...

goof 27-06-06 11:32 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Blue - pads deffo on right, they only go on one way!

Itching - this may be the problem, my initial set had metal clips on the rear. I assumed these were just because they were a different type of pad but it looks like clips should've been transferred?

Sid - not sure tbh :oops:

North - thanks mate, decent of you as ever :thumbsup:
Will wait and see if these clips will sort it though.

instigator 27-06-06 11:54 AM

Fitted the wheel correctly? I had this exact same problem. I took the wheel of and put it back on and tightened the axle bolt right up. It went in further than last time I remembered. Perhaps only maybe 4mm more but this stopped that part of the caliper hitting the disc.

Wheel ain't fitted properly is my educated guess.

Apparently it happens quite often.

goof 27-06-06 12:06 PM

Thanks Instigator, looks like it's back to the drawing board on that then.

Does anyone know about these pad backing clips? Have they to be transferred?

TSM 27-06-06 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof
Thanks Instigator, looks like it's back to the drawing board on that then.

Does anyone know about these pad backing clips? Have they to be transferred?

They are less than 1mm thick so would unlikely make a huge diffrence, check the way the wheel is fitted as this is the most likley soloution.

goof 27-06-06 03:14 PM

Thanks TSM and Sid, will get the front end off then and sort it. Also got new brake seals and fluid today so should be good to go (though no ruber grease was provided with seals, bloke in shop said I didn't need any :?: ).

goof 27-06-06 03:25 PM

Thanks Sid - I specifically asked him about this "should these come with rubber grease and don't I specifically need that" and he said just to use brake fluid :x
So should OEM Suzuki seals come with the grease?

Edit: also just wanted to confirm the clamps you mention above - do you mean the yoke clamps or axle clamp?

northwind 27-06-06 03:28 PM

I suppose you'd say it's not essential... Just a very good idea. Frost's will sell you a tub for about a fiver that'll last you for 5 lifetimes ;)

goof 27-06-06 03:40 PM

Confused it with my last bike and thought you might be referring to the lower headstock :-dd

goof 27-06-06 04:10 PM

Hmm, not getting much joy doing that Sid - I don't know if you can see from that pic above but the axle bolt still sticks out around 4mm so that maybe the problem.

Would this just need tightened more? (I think I'd tightenened it to the recommended torque :? ).

TSM 27-06-06 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof
Hmm, not getting much joy doing that Sid - I don't know if you can see from that pic above but the axle bolt still sticks out around 4mm so that maybe the problem.

Would this just need tightened more? (I think I'd tightenened it to the recommended torque :? ).

One way to check if the fork is bent (without removing them from the bike) is, when front is off the ground loosen the yoke clamp bolts & the lower axle clamp bolts for one of the forks, rotate the top tube slowly and see if the fork leg moves in and out, if not the right leg, try the left after tightening up the yoke clamp bolts. (warning that if you undo the yoke bolts the bike will not have any support if you lower the front down).

Now this is the way i found out mine was damaged, someone may dispute this method, but it worked for me, plus if it is bent and you only want a temp fix then you can find out how much rotation of the top tube will give the correct clearance you need to stop the brakes touching the disk.

Usual care should be taken with tighening all bolts prior to riding the bike and making sure no parts are binding. If you are not clear on any of this then leave it to a garage to do.

suzsv650 27-06-06 04:23 PM

right i had the same problem but mine happened when i changed my tyre!

what it is is the front spindle... ( i think thats the right name) but the bar that goes through the center of the wheal is out of line what u need to do is undo the wheal and the two bolts on the bottom tap the bar through a little (to the left when sat on the bike) do the wheal bolt up and then the two smaller ones ... thats what they did to mine when it happened to my brakes just a thought lol

TSM 27-06-06 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Squid
Wrong.

Use only rubber grease, nothing else and especially not brake fluid, SV brakes need the only slightest provocation to corrode, and brake fluid is the best way you could encourage that.

Which part are you saying will corode? Many peeps dont use rubber grease instead use brake fluid and have no probs with their brakes.

TSM 27-06-06 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzsv650
right i had the same problem but mine happened when i changed my tyre!

what it is is the front spindle... ( i think thats the right name) but the bar that goes through the center of the wheal is out of line what u need to do is undo the wheal and the two bolts on the bottom tap the bar through a little (to the left when sat on the bike) do the wheal bolt up and then the two smaller ones ... thats what they did to mine when it happened to my brakes just a thought lol

Tapping it will make little diffrence as its threaded on the otherside into the fork leg, and all you will be doing is push the other fork sideways. You want to actualy find out if its bent rather than just incorectly fitted, if the fork does not return freely to its location then something is out and possably needs to be recified.

TSM 27-06-06 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Squid
Don't tap it anywhere, this is really the wrong thing to do

Why quote me on it, i did not say tap it, granted I did not say dont tap it either.

TSM 27-06-06 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Squid
No, I was agreeing with you. No tapping should be done.

ahh ok. :oops:

jamesobrady 28-06-06 10:50 AM

Re: Brake probs (with pictures!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goof

Lads am i missing something ? The problem is as above...pieces indicated one and 2, part of the casting, are protuding past the pad and contacting the disc?
Whats playing with the forks going to change?

You've got the wrong thickness pads no?

Right footprint...wrong thickness of pad material.

Or what am i missing?

northwind 28-06-06 10:57 AM

Nah, those are the right pads. EBC HH FA229, IIRC. I had the same ones in mine.

TSM 28-06-06 10:58 AM

Re: Brake probs (with pictures!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesobrady
Lads am i missing something ? The problem is as above...pieces indicated one and 2, part of the casting, are protuding past the pad and contacting the disc?
Whats playing with the forks going to change?

You've got the wrong thickness pads no?

Right footprint...wrong thickness of pad material.

Or what am i missing?

Unlikley as that is a good amount of friction material, its not part of the casting thats protruding as the caliper is a floating unit and the bit that is sticking out does not move as its fixed to the fork leg and only the caliper body moves, but only a little, bits always run close to the disk, somtimes by a few mm.

21QUEST 28-06-06 11:24 AM

Did you find out what the problem is?

What pads(make are you using). Post up the Part number if you can as someone may be able to double check you have the right pads.

Alternatively can you post up a pic of the pad showing the rear of pads when installed in the calipers ie other side that can be seen in your first pic.

Cheers
Ben

Right I've just gone out and got a set of caliper I've got lying around. It's been ages since I looked at a standard caliper.

Anyhows I think your problem may be the pistons may be stuck.

Cheers
Ben


EDIT: Scrap that , I've had another look/think and I'm convinced the problem is pad related(backing plate too thick. It may appear counter-intuitive but think that's the problem. I've also done a comparison with a set of Nissin pads I've got and appears's that is the case. A pic would probably explain it better.



http://upload4.postimage.org/496162/DSC01009.jpg

northwind 28-06-06 11:27 AM

Good won't have the number, but he got the pads off me... I might have an unopened pack still, I could get the number off that- but I got 3 packs at the same time and fitted one just fine.

21QUEST 28-06-06 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwind
- but I got 3 packs at the same time and fitted one just fine.

Aah... missed that before my edit. Hmm... that would throw my thoery out of the window then :lol: . Maybe just a rougue set :?

Cheers
Ben

TSM 28-06-06 12:40 PM

Its nothing to do with the pads or caliper at alll.

It cant be as its not the caliper thats damaging the disk, its the bracket which is a fixed item onto the fork leg eg making the fork leg the place to look.

northwind 28-06-06 12:59 PM

This is great, it's like Guess Who.

Foey 28-06-06 03:47 PM

Not trying to imply you're a numpty but did you remove the front wheel for any reason, if so did you put the spacer back in.

goof 28-06-06 06:09 PM

Thanks again for all the replies - sorry I've not been about this savo to get back to you all, been busy with work stuff but I'm hoping to get out tonight and have a play. Tried the initial routine that Sid mentioned, didn't work so am going to trying HARDER!!! as suggested :D

FWIW, that side isn't the ones you sent me Northy, they are Armstrong HH I got for the other side. Will check codes when home.

Have had the front wheel off Foey but am pretty sure the spacer is there!

northwind 28-06-06 06:58 PM

Is it not :oops: Looks just like it :) I always get the sides wrong. Anyhow, it's till not the pads ;)

goof 28-06-06 09:23 PM

Ok, quick pic of the axle should let you see the distance it's protruding (big word for today :lol: ) and verify that the spacer's in there.

Re. the pad types, the set North sent were indeed EBC FA229. The set I bought (for right side, as pictured) were Armstrong GG coded PAD320221 - but they have a "cross reference" for EBC's coded FA231 (a little concerned as this isn't the same code as North's set).

FWIW, the pistons aren't retracting fully but it's not the pads that are scraping the disc, it's lug #1 on the caliper - as lug #2 isn't touching though (which is on the same plane) this would kinda back up Sid/TSM's theory of the forks.

http://upload4.postimage.org/499827/DSCF0814.jpg

TSM 28-06-06 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof
Ok, quick pic of the axle should let you see the distance it's protruding (big word for today :lol: ) and verify that the spacer's in there.

Re. the pad types, the set North sent were indeed EBC FA229. The set I bought (for right side, as pictured) were Armstrong GG coded PAD320221 - but they have a "cross reference" for EBC's coded FA231 (a little concerned as this isn't the same code as North's set).

FWIW, the pistons aren't retracting fully but it's not the pads that are scraping the disc, it's lug #1 on the caliper - as lug #2 isn't touching though (which is on the same plane) this would kinda back up Sid/TSM's theory of the forks.

No woreys about the pads, FA231 is the right caliper and the FA229 is for the left (I have checked the number on the EBC list)

The axle bolt should sit flush with the side of the leg, which its not on yours. Have to checked to see if its fully threaded into the other fork? If it was not the wheel would have some sideways movement so its unlikley as you would tell this easly.

northwind 28-06-06 09:38 PM

Don't worry, 229 is left and 231 is right! (at last, I contribute something acccurate to this thread!)

TSM 28-06-06 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwind
Don't worry, 229 is left and 231 is right! (at last, I contribute something acccurate to this thread!)

haa, too slooooo.

northwind 28-06-06 09:38 PM

God damn you TSM!

goof 28-06-06 09:53 PM

ROFL :laughat:

TSM, could you define "fully threaded into the other fork" - I mean, it's in there but obviously can't be enough if it's still sticking out the other end. The problem is (as I mentioned) was I think it was torqued to the right level when put on.

TSM 28-06-06 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof
ROFL :laughat:

TSM, could you define "fully threaded into the other fork" - I mean, it's in there but obviously can't be enough if it's still sticking out the other end. The problem is (as I mentioned) was I think it was torqued to the right level when put on.

If it was torqued up then its ok, if the wheel does not move then its ok, most likley is its the right fork.

Has the bike ever been involved in a crash on either side, by you or any other owner that you are aware? If you are not aware then you can check, look on the headstock and find where the steering stop is, put your finger over each side and it may feal like its indented a little bit.

goof 28-06-06 10:09 PM

Will need to check that tomorrow now - when you say "steering stop" do you just mean where it's on full lock to either side?

Sorry for all the questions :roll:

TSM 28-06-06 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof
Will need to check that tomorrow now - when you say "steering stop" do you just mean where it's on full lock to either side?

Sorry for all the questions :roll:

In the middle of the headstock, above the bottom yoke, just below where the front fairing mount joins on the frame.


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