Vegetarians .. Vegans and the like …

I just read as much as possible back in 2001 when the last 'epidemic'?, was happening and talked to a few local farmers about their fears to gain as much knowledge as possible and came to my own conclusions.

Its very easy to get sucked into the news (lies) at 10 explanation of everything but most people still rely on that kind of info.

I do...I admit....distrust everything I hear on the news until I have researched it! My problem is remembering all the information crammed into my head! It hurts!

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/featur...ruthfandm.html

A basic explanation...not lies....maybe a bit simplified but it beats "lies at 10"!

I don't know the arguments for or against vaccination, it used to be unreliable and have a risk of actually causing the disease, and there's a number of different strains to vaccinate against

Funny you should mention that NW cos that is the current thinking about the influenza virus and any future bird flu outbreak.

If you get the 'flu jab' then you walk around giving everyone the flu because you can then be a carrier without going down with it fully yourself. You may still get the snnezies and cough a bit for a few days but you won't get full-blown flu. Just everyone else you come into contact with will get it....so vaccination can be a very bad thing....what the drug industry want is for this to continue so more and more people will get so sick and tired of getting flu 3 times a year they will happily go to the docs and get a flu jab...currently around $21 a pop in the States....blindly becoming another carrier.... and on it goes. Where does all the money come from to pay for all the drug companies vaccines? Tax of course...its your money! NHS money? Still your tax!

Clever innit?

Back in the 60's a certain person ah'rumsf'em'ld was heard to say, just before he became a big player in Monsanto Pharmaceuticals that, "It's a pity we can't make them ill so we can sell more drugs!" and do you know what? People don't believe this you when you tell them....they think its too far fetched to be true....they wouldn't do that to us, thats silly......well guess what!

No it isn't!

[northwind]

That link's bloody awful mate, within about 10 seconds I found this:

"The current wisdom theorises that FMD is viral in nature."

"The resultant illness and lameness causes decreased appetite, a drop in milk yield, a drop in productivity, and of course, increased care costs. Afflicted animals almost always recover, usually within a week or two. Death occurs in only 5 percent of cases (2), and the meat is fit to eat (3)."

There's absolutely no doubt that it's a virus, that comment's obviously only made to try to undermine the opposing position, but without any attempt to provide an alternative- it's argument by rumour. This is a pretty low tactic, tabloid stuff. FMD was demonstrated to have a viral cause over a hundred years ago.

Then "Almost always recover" is thrown out, right beside a 5% fatality rate, the two obviously contradict but the article just rushes past this to give the impression that 5% is minor. It also ignores that a lot of these symptoms continue past the 2 weeks mentioned- decreased milk yield can be permanent (and total), and loss of bulk takes months to recover from and can have other health impacts. No mention of secondary infection from the open sores.

Amusingly (to me at least) it then tries to link in false-positive HIV diagnosis... False positives for ELISA on HIV are substantially below 1% at worst, yet this is described as "a very high number of "false" positive HIV diagnoses". So 95% is "Almost always" but >1% is "very high" ? You can't play games with numbers like that and be taken seriously.

It also links this: "Foot and mouth is as serious to animals as a bad cold is to human beings. So why the concern?" I don't recall bad colds killing 1/20 of all people who get them, do you?

Wow 15 pages ... that's cool ... and I didn't even need to wind anyone up!!

Ok lets get back down to more philosophical stuff than FMD!!

Veggies ...

It's clear than many farmed animals have a pretty ropey existence ... but they were only ever born because of the food demands ... if you took away the demand (everyone became a hippie ) then the trade would cease and all those potential cows and chickens etc etc would never have the opportunity of life ... isn't that tragic in itself??

By not eating meat are you not robbing many animals the chance of life?!? ... Is it not better to have lived a short life than none at all?!!??

Discuss!!

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

By not eating meat are you not robbing many animals the chance of life?!? ... Is it not better to have lived a short life than none at all?!!??

no

Originally Posted by sarah

no

Well ok, but please explain yourself young lady!!

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

stuff

Originally Posted by sarah

no

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Well ok, but please explain yourself young lady!!

hmmmm, well, if you haven't been born then you can't really miss being alive

Originally Posted by sarah

hmmmm, well, if you haven't been born then you can't really miss being alive

When you are dead you don't really miss it either, coz you are like ... dead!!! ... but at least you had a life

I think it is a tricky one ...

[northwind]

You cannot kill that which does not live! Though, that's more for zombies than cows.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

When you are dead you don't really miss it either, coz you are like ... dead!!!

yup, i agree

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

... but at least you had a life

I think it is a tricky one ...

i disagree