Public Sector Pay Cuts

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

I'm not certain I can.

I'm unsure of where to find evidence that government funded projects cost 20x more that private equivalents.

As for government not playing a role in an economic cycle, I just can't get my head around that concept so you've got me there. What would government do? How would taxes be collected and any services purchased and provided?

My problem is with paper shufflers with titles like "central district equality coordinator for diversity services", of which Calderdale has plenty.
I'd quite happily see them in the jobseekers queue as it would leave more money for the people who deserve it and actually have a job, rather than a title. Like the firemen, police, army, doctors, dustmen.

Will the cuts work out fairly? Probably not, but it's a nice thought.

Find specialone or someone like that' post from a while ago about some foreign plasterers plastering walls an inch thick because they were paid more for using more plaster. One example of stupid waste, I bet I can find you 10 more.


Economic cycles happen all over the place. Take any firm, they all have their own economic cycle, they add value to something, pay their employees who spend it somewhere else, that firm then takes that value and might buy from the original firm.

The central government cannot be a prime-mover, they don't create any wealth, the circle can't be based on taxing the industries paid for by tax... for that to continue the efficiency would have to be >1, which can't happen.
The government provide a service, their duty is to take the minimum they can to provide that service and do it responsibly.
That's undeniably AN economic cycle, but not THE economic cycle.


You seem to have interpreted my rant about yoghurt knitting idiots in local government as an attack on everyone who works in the public sector. Maybe it came across that way.

[G]

Originally Posted by specialone

Thats absolutely true, my wife works in the NHS and there is always a scramble to spend if there is money left prior to the budget date, that isnt that often i guess though cos they keep getting screwed on everything.

That is the same in any department... there is always plenty of roadworks being done in february and march so they get their full budget next year.

Originally Posted by specialone

The pharmacutical companies charge way over the odds for stuff, you know they have rediculous expense accounts as they pay for conferences in hot sunny exotic places, they pay for food and drinks at xmas parties etc, the list is endless.
You wanna see the company cars they drive.

The pharmacutical companies spend billions on R&D to find cures for everything, they are a business, and have a product that is in demand. They are going to sell it at the best price they can, to the highest bidder. They are not going to just give it away.

The sale reps drive nice car because their jobs are extremely stressful, with long hours and they drive 40k a year. If your succesful in sales its because you have worked hard to get there, and you have to keep working damn hard to stay there.

Originally Posted by G

The pharmacutical companies spend billions on R&D to find cures for everything, they are a business, and have a product that is in demand. They are going to sell it at the best price they can, to the highest bidder. They are not going to just give it away.

The sale reps drive nice car because their jobs are extremely stressful, with long hours and they drive 40k a year. If your succesful in sales its because you have worked hard to get there, and you have to keep working damn hard to stay there.

Im not disputing their salaries, but stressful ???
The ones i have met arent in a stressful situation, actually a good friend of mine does it for a living, he swans about all over the place, chasing skirt, he hasnt got the massive company car or the enormous salary but it aint bad.
It is a business and you're right they do sometimes spend an awful lot on r&d, but there other times when they just market an existing drug and sell it for more money.
We dont get value for money which costs the taxpayer in the end.

I read somewhere last year the west mids spent £3m on outside non medical consultants, ie training and nothing to do with medicine.
Some of these guys earn a grand a day, that cant go on.
NHS doctors with sideline private practices putting their private patients through NHS clinics, not good is it.
Some people are getting very fat on the taxpayers cash.

[G]

Originally Posted by specialone

Im not disputing their salaries, but stressful ???

Stressful because if you don't hit your target, you get a warning, miss the target next month and your out of a job. They pay high and provide nice cars because the jobs are easy come easy go.

I know sales reps that have been made redundant 3 times in the same year... in the good times, not to mention the bad times.

Sales is relatively easy if you have an easy to sell product thought I guess.

Originally Posted by G

Stressful because if you don't hit your target, you get a warning, miss the target next month and your out of a job. They pay high and provide nice cars because the jobs are easy come easy go.

I know sales reps that have been made redundant 3 times in the same year... in the good times, not to mention the bad times.

Sales is relatively easy if you have an easy to sell product thought I guess.

Like you say, depends on the product, but i know some of the drug reps arent under that much pressure as its all contractual sales, once you have wined and dined the right people its all downhill then

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by G

The pharmacutical companies spend billions on R&D to find cures for everything, they are a business, and have a product that is in demand. They are going to sell it at the best price they can, to the highest bidder. They are not going to just give it away.

I think the argument was about this a while ago that the NHS was spending a fortune buying easily available drugs at inflated prices from people like astra zeneca.

Of course AZ and the like need to make a lot to spend it on R+D, which in a roundabout way benefits us. But should they charge a lot for already developed drugs is another question.

[punyXpress]

[QUOTE=G;2313506]Stressful because if you don't hit your target, you get a warning, miss the target next month and your out of a job.

That is precisely what the Public Sector should be doing!

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by punyXpress

Stressful because if you don't hit your target, you get a warning, miss the target next month and your out of a job.

That is precisely what the Public Sector should be doing!

How do you set targets? If targets are set then the "results" get tweaked to meet the targets, paper results are easier than real ones.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

I think the argument was about this a while ago that the NHS was spending a fortune buying easily available drugs at inflated prices from people like astra zeneca.

Of course AZ and the like need to make a lot to spend it on R+D, which in a roundabout way benefits us. But should they charge a lot for already developed drugs is another question.

Thats kinda what i mentioned in a earlier one of my posts, we pay too much for (sometimes) over the counter drugs, when places like tesco and asda sell them cheaper

When they do the R&D on a new drug, once approved, the sales they do to hospitals etc the prices are reflected with this in mind, for example.

these are not real figures just a illustration,

R&D on a pill costs £3m,
NHS orders 3m of them straight away at £2 each (£1 of this is r&d recovery price)
They have now recovered the R&D outlay,
Other countries place order, NHS order another 3m, global sales 20m pills, still same price, is this value for money, now we know the r&d has been paid for ages ago?

This is one area where the government should pay attention to.
Maybe government should fund R&D for certain drugs they want, and let companies make them under license.



Sorry if my point confuses you, it did me for a bit

[punyXpress]

So the second order of pills helps to pay for ongoing development - not all research bears fruit.