Any teachers in the house?

[MisterTommyH]

Originally Posted by Messie

I meant to mention that earlier. These pensions are not gifts. We pay in to them a considerable amount, which is matched up to a point by the public purse. I believe this system of employee pays some, employer pay some, isn't limited to the public sector.

It's not, but very few companies actually put anything on and offer this. The government is starting a scheme to encourage employers to do this, but it's not compulsory. Those that do offer a contribution certainly don't put in as much (if not more) than the employee does.

I've heard figures of 6% employee, 10% employer. That won't happen anywhere else.

Just aside from this, there was talk about should we transfer the 65 age to the military. IMO - no. Unless you reach a high rank the military is not supposed to be a job for life. At the end of your term the military are supposed to give you skills to get a job in the civie world. The fact that this doesn't happen is a disgrace, but doesn't change the fact that the 65 retirement age shouldn't apply.

Originally Posted by Messie

Make up your own mind on the basis of your own informed and intelligent ideas plus listening to a varied selection of other opinions

I have thought about this a lot, being in the same situation myself re the public sector pay/pension changes, and I really can't justify why people in the private sector should pay for me to have a final salary pension when they don't have one themselves. We all have to get real and think more fairly across society, not just about ourselves. An average earnings pension is still a good deal, and has a lot more certainty than any private pensions have these days.

Same goes for the job cuts that are coming up - there just isn't the money at the moment to pay for a fat public sector. We have to accept pay freezes, even though it's getting tougher to pay the bills. And yes I may well lose my job in the next few months, and certainly some of my friends at work will do, but I will NOT go out on strike as it isn't going to make the situation any better.

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

Firstly,these pensions are affordable.Second,the government is desperate to put up the contributions not to pay for the pensions,but to pay for the national debt.

The trouble is that this country is in a massive amount of debt, and therefore the pensions (along with lots of other good stuff that the population have enjoyed during the apparent times of plenty) are NOT affordable in that context. If you personally owed tens of thousands in debt, surely you would be looking to cut your outgoings to help pay it back? Even the Labour party are agreed about the need for change!

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

With regards to I think it was Daveyrach's comment, do you think our pension just magics from thin air in the public sector or something? Do you realise we all have to pay a pretty bloody big percent a month into it???

Yes, we do pay in a lot - but the final salary pensions are worth a good 20%+ of your salary, and I don't know anyone in the public sector who is paying that much out of their income. By comparison private company schemes will generally about match your contributions, and those who don't have a company scheme get f-all other than what they themselves save (and obviously the state pension).

Can you honestly stand up and say to someone who gets no extra contributions that they should pay more tax to allow you to have what you currently do?? Yes it sucks that everyone doesn't have a better, safer pension deal, and I HATE the idea of working til 66, but until some magic solution is found, why should it be so different for public vs private sector workers?

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by Messie

As has been said they are lying. It takes a long time to get above 32K.

Sorry, I didn't catch the lying thing, I read it as his friends were stating what they earn't. If there's no truth in those figures then there's nothing to my argument and you most definitely have my sympathies...just not in the months of July and August

Originally Posted by Messie

We don't you become a teacher?

I am sure for all the hard work there would be great satisfaction in seeing kids understand things and to start making strides in subjects. But I am on the tail end of my 30's now and am a self employed freelance contractor on a decent salary, so making the move would be a big step backwards in monetary terms and do serious harm to my longer term plans.

When my long term plans take affect and I move abroad to semi retire I may find myself teaching higher education computer science in Fiji

I'll happily settle for career average pension. However I want to stop at 60 and ideally i don't want to pay much more!! Not too much to ask is it. I dont mind if they cut the final amount i get either really. I'd rather have the money now when I need it to buy as many bikes as I can get my grubby mitts on before i'm too old to ride one!

[Biker Biggles]

I too would settle for a career average,and I would be prepared to pay more in for a lower retirement age.I do the kind of job where it is not safe or practical to carry on past the age of 60,and when I started that was the age you went at.I knew my pension would not be enough so I took out a private plan as well,also maturing at age 60.I now find myself in a position where the goalposts are going to move,despite me making proper plans throughout my working life.If I carry on doing my current job up to age 66 the statistics suggest I won't survive to collect a pension at all so maybe that's the master plan.Put a stop[ to all this longevity by making the working class carry on till they just f&ck off and die.

Can you imagine being about 55 now having taught for 30 years already thinking you only have 5 years left to find it is going to be 11 instead!!

Wow, nice to see a thread take off.

Few viewpoints surprise me though, as I said initially, typical misconceptions from those that have never walked a metre in the shoes of those they are misconceiving over.

Can I ask BTW how a teacher "knows what they are getting into" when they have never walked a metre in those shoes either and everyone tells them it's 13 weeks holiday and an easy life? I just don't understand that one.

As for 13 week holidays, as somebody correctly pointed out, it's more like half that. Just like in my job I can't go out and do 6 hours of presentations 5 days a week, because I need time sat in front of my laptop doing the rest of the job, that is what most teachers spend half terms doing, at least half of the Easter and Xmas holidays, and at least a week or two of the summer break. So hang on, I get 25 days a year, that's 5 weeks, but I get to take them when it suits me.

I don't see many teachers moaning on here either, the person making the most noise initially was me, and I'm not a teacher. But they say the converted preach hardest If teachers didn't come under so much fire, they wouldn't need to put up such a defense.

48 hours a week? Ha, ha! That's less than 4 days work for many teachers. Pro rata earning £15k is probably about the same rate.

It does certainly make a difference what you teach, so some misconceptions may come from that. We know a drama teacher who admits she has a pretty easy life and says she wouldn't like to try teaching two different languages, to every level, from primary through to A level.

And finally, who posted on this thread from work today? Decided you needed to give you brain a wee break did you? Did you decide what time to make your tea and coffee too, or does you boss nail you to the desk until the official break times? Nice to be able to do that when you want isn't it! If you'd been feeling a wee bit sh!t 40 minutes into a lesson, you wouldn't have had that choice, and you may have another class pouring in for another hour immediately after that.

Woo, go ralph. Also its a nightmare if you need a poo

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by Jackie_Black

Can you imagine being about 55 now having taught for 30 years already thinking you only have 5 years left to find it is going to be 11 instead!!

Too right and as one or two have said here,surely a breach of contract?Oh no its the government so they dont have to honour contracts.

Originally Posted by Jackie_Black

Woo, go ralph. Also its a nightmare if you need a poo

Shows I do listen to my wife's moaning sometimes eh!

In complete honesty, throughout the two years of her PGCE and NQT, I have NEVER in my life known anybody that has had to work so hard. NEVER, without exception.

Anyone reading this and considering teaching as a career change, don't take it lightly.