Can't sleep... help!

[Messie]

Originally Posted by metalangel

@Messie: What would suggest I should have done last night in preparation for today, as an example?

Stop trying to get to sleep, possibly even get up and do something else. Is there something relaxing you could do for an hour or so (maybe reading or crosswords, but not exciting like games)? In this way you get at least some sort of rest. Tonight don't go to bed early but try to go at roughly a normal time. Is you shift pattern a regular one - this can help? Does it change frequently? - this is OK if it's every 2 days but if not it needs to be longer than 5 day rotations.

Originally Posted by tigersaw

I import melatonin tablets from USA. Cant buy them here, but they are marketed as a vitamin suppliment there. For occasional use, I find they help with no side effects.
Tried proper pescription pills, worked brilliant with no problems, but once again, only for occasional use.

I didn't know they weren't available here - do you know why not? Many people take melatonin for jet lag with some good effects.
Melatonin is the naturally occuring hormone which is primarily associated with sleep. As the light levels decrease in the day so the pituitary gland instructs the release of this hormone. This has a knock on effect on other chemicals and ANS which leads to sleep - usually.

Some people also use light boxes to adjust their sleep patterns but our bodies will adjust naturally in time

[hindle8907]

Smoke a few J's of cheese, and put a long boring film on the box you will be asleep in no time.

I had quite a lot of trouble sleeping last year, most likely due to stress. In the short term what worked for me was just having a simple wind down routine - TV/PC off, quick (but relaxed) tidy, ready for bed, and then read (Smartphones and Kindles are great for reading at night without annoying the OH) until eyes too heavy to keep going. On the really bad nights would just pop downstairs and sit and read there for a while.

I quit smoking in January and have slept much better since then. Whether that's down to the smoking itself, or that I'm less stressed in general (which I am after quitting), I'm not sure.

I remember seeing a science/sleep program which said to have a hot bath an hour before wanting to sleep.
Its not the hot water that makes you tired, its the drop in body temperature after you get out, a bit like your body slowing to hibernate.

[Sir Trev]

Look out for a Paul McKenna titel called Sleep Like a Log. I had an old VHS copy which was quite useful.

Some of the tips in it are already covered but number 1 was don't go to bed until you're tired, or you just lay there awake. Also: don't read in bed (long term trains your mind that bed = sleep), bath before bed or warm milky drink was in there, get up earlier than normal and do so every day (your rhythm alters and you will naturally want to get to sleep earlier).

Plenty of self hypnosis routines out there too that relax your body and help you enpty your mind.

Originally Posted by Messie

Stop trying to get to sleep, possibly even get up and do something else. Is there something relaxing you could do for an hour or so (maybe reading or crosswords, but not exciting like games)? In this way you get at least some sort of rest. Tonight don't go to bed early but try to go at roughly a normal time. Is you shift pattern a regular one - this can help? Does it change frequently? - this is OK if it's every 2 days but if not it needs to be longer than 5 day rotations.

Shift pattern is five days of early, then a few days off, then five days of lates (with some 'normal' hours mixed in). then three days off before it starts again. The three days between lates and earlys are the worst for trying to change back to getting to bed early. So in effect it's changing back and forth every week or so between 6am-2pm and 2pm-10pm shifts.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Sir Trev

Some of the tips in it are already covered but number 1 was don't go to bed until you're tired, or you just lay there awake. Also: don't read in bed (long term trains your mind that bed = sleep), bath before bed or warm milky drink was in there, get up earlier than normal and do so every day (your rhythm alters and you will naturally want to get to sleep earlier).

The problem with number one is I can easily stay up almost the entire night. Mrs Metal subscribes to that rule and as a result sometimes doesn't come to bed until 3am (or just stays up all night!) because she hasn't felt tired yet, and consequently is shattered the following day.

The bath thing is worth a try, the only problem is your hair (if you wash it) is crazy the next day.

This topic has been covered on here a million times and have responded to most of them. I can't be asked finding my last post so I will respond again

First off I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND why (in general) people suffering with lack of sleep for long periods don't go to see their GP and take medication or if that doesn't work ask for a referral to a specialist (in this case I would suggest a psychiatrist).

Lack of sleep can have a number of effects ranging from tiredness to severe depression. Most of the times lack of sleep is related to stress and the fact that our mind will NOT switch off. Eventually we crash as our levels of hormones are depleted.

I sufferred from the type of insomnia where I could get to sleep but only sleep for a few hours before I would wake up in the middle of the night. This resulted in as you say tiredness and in my case (amongst other contributory factors) depression and panic disorders. As the consultant said to me a number of times I was hit pretty hard by it!!!

Now a year and 2 months later I am off any type of sleeping aid and can manage my sleep well enough so that it doesn't impact the rest of my life.

My advise is that firstly you see your doctor! Secondly accept the medication they give you. They are not all addictive and if they refuse to give you any then ask for a referral.. Thirdly and with regards to your shift patterns. The are 6-2 and 2-10 as you say. I would apply the following sleep schedule. Go to bed always at about 11pm. Your body will get used to that and you will be able to cope with the early wake ups better. It will give you at least a 6hr sleep assuming you sleep all those hours.

Obviously it will not happen overnight and you need to be keeping the schedule religiously!!! It took a few months with the assistance of sleeping aids (see meds).

I used to take meds that prolonged my sleep rather than knock me out.

If you need more info I am MORE than happy to talk to you. PM me your number and I will ring you.

600+ thanks so much for the detailed response. You're absolutely right that sometimes I just can't get my brain to switch off. I will try your set bedtime thing but just a question about it: when I'm on the late shift, what time do I get up in the morning? Still at 5am or a bit later?

It was also suggested by someone in work that I might not be tiring myself out enough during the day. Unfortunately work is sitting at a computer for eight hours, which is more wearing than some people realize and everyone in here says they sometimes struggle to muster the enthusiasm to go and do anything after their shift.

Thanks again!

You will get up either at 5am or later depending to how much "sleep" you have. On the days you are on the late shift this will give you time to go to the gym if you like or find another way to exercise in general. This will be tough at the beginning but your body will get used to it and in a rhythm.

Overall yes you need physical tiredness. Mental tiredness is a matter of managing switch on/off your brain. It's a life approach thing hence why you might find that your approach to things is a bit more intense than it should be.

Mastering the enthusiasm is BS! Just get on and do it. You will find that people suffering with depression actually lack any appetite to do something that they used to find fulfilling. Number one rule to get out of depression is get active. Can you see how that apply to everything irrespective of suffering from the illness?

Should I set an alarm on those days, or just let myself wake up naturally?