Any teachers in the house?

You could do the job mate, you already have the staff room ranting to a tee. Seriously though its a ******* of a job at times. Don't ever go in with a hangover, they will know!!

Originally Posted by Jackie_Black

Can you imagine being about 55 now having taught for 30 years already thinking you only have 5 years left to find it is going to be 11 instead!!

They are the ones I really feel for as well - and who knows what the retirement age will end up being when they finally reach 66?!

I wish the unions would stop trying to fight everything and pick a couple of key points to get sorted, e.g. looking out for those nearing retirement or on very low incomes.

And I really really hope that one day this country might be in a good enough state that we can lower that retirement age for everyone again...please???

[andrewsmith]

Originally Posted by dyzio

Where's the OP?

+1

The laziest Troll?

I think we can, lets reopen the mines, sell the coal and start making **** again. As much as this new government gets a lot of stick they will sort it out. Now lets not vote those other silly nannys back in eh.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

My only problem with it is that the terms and conditions of our contracts are being changed and we are not even allowed to strike.

Unfortunately, I feel it is just something that we, who get paid from the public purse, have to expect these days until times get a bit better.

With regards to I think it was Daveyrach's comment, do you think our pension just magics from thin air in the public sector or something? Do you realise we all have to pay a pretty bloody big percent a month into it???

Originally Posted by Fizzy Fish

I have thought about this a lot, being in the same situation myself re the public sector pay/pension changes, and I really can't justify why people in the private sector should pay for me to have a final salary pension when they don't have one themselves. We all have to get real and think more fairly across society, not just about ourselves. An average earnings pension is still a good deal, and has a lot more certainty than any private pensions have these days.

Same goes for the job cuts that are coming up - there just isn't the money at the moment to pay for a fat public sector. We have to accept pay freezes, even though it's getting tougher to pay the bills. And yes I may well lose my job in the next few months, and certainly some of my friends at work will do, but I will NOT go out on strike as it isn't going to make the situation any better.



The trouble is that this country is in a massive amount of debt, and therefore the pensions (along with lots of other good stuff that the population have enjoyed during the apparent times of plenty) are NOT affordable in that context. If you personally owed tens of thousands in debt, surely you would be looking to cut your outgoings to help pay it back? Even the Labour party are agreed about the need for change!



Yes, we do pay in a lot - but the final salary pensions are worth a good 20%+ of your salary, and I don't know anyone in the public sector who is paying that much out of their income. By comparison private company schemes will generally about match your contributions, and those who don't have a company scheme get f-all other than what they themselves save (and obviously the state pension).

Can you honestly stand up and say to someone who gets no extra contributions that they should pay more tax to allow you to have what you currently do?? Yes it sucks that everyone doesn't have a better, safer pension deal, and I HATE the idea of working til 66, but until some magic solution is found, why should it be so different for public vs private sector workers?

Ness, can you maybe re-read what I posted? I am not actually arguing with you, but Daveyrach, maybe unintentionally, made out like we were gifted our pensions on a plate.

I agree that at the moment, we need to expect cuts and pay freezes and such like - and I have repeatedly stated it on the forum that the private sector were hit hard the past few years with there being jobs created in the public sector for people collating the numbers of ethnic groups who were trained in 1978 to knit soup.

With my pension contributions to go up to 15% a year, and my increments to be frozen, I am going to be a fair bit worse off. But, I appreciate that times are hard and that cuts have to be made. My dad has just been made redundant, he can't get a job at the moment. I am pretty lucky and if I am perfectly honest, although I completely understand why they are doing it, and have a huge amount of sympathy for their position, I think teachers should count themselves fairly lucky too.

I'm giggling at the irony of calling it a "Day of Action" when most of them have been sitting on their ar5es doing nothing all day

I understand the feelings of the civil servant or services sector in the propositions being bandied about but it is still all under negotiation.We give these people credit for being highly intelligent so surely even a simple mind can work out that if their contributions plus the employers part does not fill the pot enough to maintain the contracted agreement things have to change.
Many in the private pension sector,me personally,have been ripped off by pension promises that have not fulfilled in growth due to the failings of world economics.One question I would ask---is it compulsory or can you opt out and go to a private pension fund?
Unfortunately the goose that lays the golden egg is constipated and I don't see why I should have to pay more tax as a laxative to benefit people who do a job of work and if they are not satisfied can change their employment if they think they would be better off elsewhere.
The union leaders never seem to suffer financially by all the strikes and when you examine their personal politics I wonder about the sheep that are following them.

Unions may have been a good thing in the past and do have benefits in the workplace but I can see history repeating itself if the dinosaurs leading them don't change their tactics and work harder a negotiating rather than calling for strike action that affects the very pot they are trying to get the money from.
By that I mean how many other businesses and individuals have lost money due to their strike resulting in less profits and taxes going into the government coffers?.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Ness, can you maybe re-read what I posted? I am not actually arguing with you, but Daveyrach, maybe unintentionally, made out like we were gifted our pensions on a plate.

I agree that at the moment, we need to expect cuts and pay freezes and such like - and I have repeatedly stated it on the forum that the private sector were hit hard the past few years with there being jobs created in the public sector for people collating the numbers of ethnic groups who were trained in 1978 to knit soup.

With my pension contributions to go up to 15% a year, and my increments to be frozen, I am going to be a fair bit worse off. But, I appreciate that times are hard and that cuts have to be made. My dad has just been made redundant, he can't get a job at the moment. I am pretty lucky and if I am perfectly honest, although I completely understand why they are doing it, and have a huge amount of sympathy for their position, I think teachers should count themselves fairly lucky too.

Aplogies if I've misread where you're coming from MBK. I get frustrated with the attitudes (which occur throughout both private and public sector and is certainly not limited to teachers) where people go on about what they want and how they'll go on strike to get it without taking in the bigger picture about whether it's actually feasible. (UK car industry anyone??)

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

I understand the feelings of the civil servant or services sector in the propositions being bandied about but it is still all under negotiation.We give these people credit for being highly intelligent so surely even a simple mind can work out that if their contributions plus the employers part does not fill the pot enough to maintain the contracted agreement things have to change.
Many in the private pension sector,me personally,have been ripped off by pension promises that have not fulfilled in growth due to the failings of world economics.One question I would ask---is it compulsory or can you opt out and go to a private pension fund?
Unfortunately the goose that lays the golden egg is constipated and I don't see why I should have to pay more tax as a laxative to benefit people who do a job of work and if they are not satisfied can change their employment if they think they would be better off elsewhere.
The union leaders never seem to suffer financially by all the strikes and when you examine their personal politics I wonder about the sheep that are following them.

Unions may have been a good thing in the past and do have benefits in the workplace but I can see history repeating itself if the dinosaurs leading them don't change their tactics and work harder a negotiating rather than calling for strike action that affects the very pot they are trying to get the money from.
By that I mean how many other businesses and individuals have lost money due to their strike resulting in less profits and taxes going into the government coffers?.

+1 (and I love the bit about the constipated goose BTW!)

The union leaders have a lot to answer for. At my work a lot of the union management/activists are all about the politics and not that much about the real business world. Ironically I've often found them to be quite out of touch with what their members actually think - as demonstrated on this thread, and the fact that a lot of PCS, etc union members didn't observe yesterday's strikes, most workers actually have more of a sense of perspective and are willing to make some compromises.

BTW the government have also handled this badly, and must share some of the blame for the early strikes.

One thing I have always wondered about is,is withdrawing labour a breach of contract,if you withdraw your labour you give the employer grounds to breach any contracts you may have.
I know it is all history but I worked in the coal industry and British Leyland when all the strikes were going on and I never recouped the losses of going on strike,AND after joining the police it was illegal for me to go on strike as still is I believe.
Teachers ,police,fire service as examples all have jobs that are above the national average wage
but if you are not happy with your conditions find a job you are happy in. Don't try and hold the rest of the nation to ransom and still hope to command respect from the man/woman in the street who you are adversely screwing

Just goes to show you how ferking stupid this bunch is....why not strike on a Friday???

Wonder how many phoned in sick yesterday.