Amy Winehouse Found Dead

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Heavy drug use turns you into a moron regardless - heavy alcohol use doesn't necessarily do the same. You can go out and drink 2 or 3 pints a night and never actually be addicted and liable to kill yourself through drinking, try doing the same with smack or crack. You can stop drinking relatively easily because it is far less addcitve, you can't get off drugs anywhere near as easily and the damage done is usually far worse than drinking is by that stage.

Drink and drugs, no comparison so I don't see what your point is.

Oh my god Loz! I thought you were a bit more worldly wise than "heavy drug use turns you in a moron regardless - heavy alcohol use doesn't necessarily do the same".

If you compare two addicts, one addicted to heroin and one addicted to alcohol, very often you find the heroin addict is much more able to function and much less like a moron than the drunk.

You obviously don't have an addictive personality if you were able to stop the level of alcohol ABUSE, because that's what it was, you claim to have been partaking in so easily. Most people, even without the addictive personality trait, would be physically addicted to that amount of alcohol. Alcoholics withdrawals are far more dangerous and life threatening than any other addictive substance. Cold turkey can kill an alcoholic.

The thing is, alcohol, heroin, crack, pretty much any mind altering substance, can result in addiction. You used alcohol to sleep because of lots of hours of work, I know of people who started using amphet to get through a days work and then using valium or similar to get some sleep after a 20 hour shift. Low and behold, they ended up addicted to valium and ended up on the downward spiral.

Like I said earlier, not everything is so black and white.

Im a little confused now (must be all the booze and drugs ) are you all pretty much arguing the same thing?

No Loz is saying anyone addicted to drugs is a moron, I'm saying their not and that it's not so black and white.

Whilst I don't have sympathy for a lot of addicts, there are some who I do feel sympathy for.

understood!

Agreed: Not all addicts are useless dribbling fools, most are fully fucntioning adults who dont even see they're addiction as such. Much as lauire described of regular dependence on vodka, I'll bet if asked you'd be pushed to get an admission of alcholism but by definition of the word your actions depict that of an addict. Kudos for walking away from it, obvsiouly you're proof that addiction is not a chemical thing and more so that its purely mental - hence an illness - and I belive that puts us back on topic following on from Keithd's link to Russelbrands enlightening eulogy for Amy.

Originally Posted by Owenski

As much as it pains me to say it, If you dont think that alchol is a drug then he has a point.
Alcohol and Tabacco consumption ruins more lives than narcotic use ever has.

Irrespective of them been legally obtainable, it doesnt make addiction to those substances any less damaging and if you disagree then why do peopple top drinking and smoking?

FTR I drink, smoke and occasionally partake in illegal substances - but I recognise that if done in moderation they're all part of a good evening, if done to excess they'll ruin your life... and thats all of them fags and booze included.
EDIT: FFS type - read - then send,

Alcoholism amongst drinkers is not common, crime such as theft and burglary related to smoking tobacco is virtually unheard of. If you can't see that hard drugs - not weed or soft drugs, I'm talking about hard narcotics here - is highly addictive and socially unacceptable then I feel sorry for you. Obviously you are one of the people the anti-drugs campaigns that our previous governments and countless drug related charities spent millions of pounds trying to educate on the dangers of drug abuse and you've steered clear of the hard stuff, which is to be commended, but I'm not talking about weed or the odd pill here and there that you're doing, I'm on about the highly addictive stuff that sees people living in squalor, mugging others and breaking into houses for enough to fund their next fix.

Talking in relative terms, you'd be less likely to find alcoholics amongst drinkers, but the majority of hard drug users will be heavily addicted to their drug of choice. With alcohol it's you abusing the substance that's the problem, with drugs it's the substance abusing you.

Originally Posted by Owenski

understood!

Agreed: Not all addicts are useless dribbling fools, most are fully fucntioning adults who dont even see they're addiction as such. Much as lauire described of regular dependence on vodka, I'll bet if asked you'd be pushed to get an admission of alcholism but by definition of the word your actions depict that of an addict. Kudos for walking away from it, obvsiouly you're proof that addiction is not a chemical thing and more so that its purely mental - hence an illness - and I belive that puts us back on topic following on from Keithd's link to Russelbrands enlightening eulogy for Amy.

Nah, alcohol addiction is one of the physical/chemical addictions, along with heroin and crack. Other substances can be mental addictions but those three in particular are physical.

Like I said, alcohol withdrawl can actually kill someone. It can cause seizures and all sorts of nasty effects on your body. We are usually more concerned about having an alcoholic who is withdrawing than a heroin addict who has the rattles.

[Mr Speirs]

but her daddy thought she was fine?

OK, maybe I was just lucky in that my use (not abuse) of alcohol was an easy thing to kick. I was never what I'd call dependent on it, I never came home from work screaming inside to get a glass of vodka down my neck. I'd drift through, make some food, eat, read some emails and eventually sit down with the bottle and a glass. Not once did I think to myself when I was working "I hope I get finished soon cos I could do with a drink". Sure I drank a hell of a lot, but it never felt like I had a problem because I always knew I could do without, it just helped me wind down and sleep at the time. When I took holidays or went to my girlfriend's for the weekend I hardly touched the stuff.

Giving up smoking however was a nightmare. I smoked from the age of 13 or 14 and at one point was doing at least 20 a day, then I started on roll-ups and being a lazy sod I managed to cut down to 10 a day because I couldn't be ar5ed to roll one. By this time I'd only been smoking about 7 or 8 years. Then I made myself go outside to smoke and that cut me down to 5 or 6. Eventually after 35 years of regular daily smoking I managed to stop altogether, but it was absolute bloody hell for me and I don't expect or want anyone's congratulations or praise because it was a stupid thing to start in the first place. Most of the reason I found it difficult was I am not allowed to take any of the things that help you give up like patches etc because I've had a stroke and have heart problems and they could have made my health much worse.

Contrary to what you may think, I think I have an addictive personality which is why I never dared try hard drugs - I just knew that would be the end of me. From an early age I'd been around people who drank and none of them seemed any worse for it - by the time I was in my mid teens I'd seen people who dabbled with hard drugs and all of them turned from great blokes into addicted morons who couldn't function without, that was the difference. By the same token I couldn't give up motorcycling because that is like a drug to me too, you could say I am addicted to it and even trying to stop would be torture.

I'll maintain my stance on drink and drugs not being comparable in the addiction stakes. One last word though from a friend's dad who was a senior prison officer - he once told me that prisoners have virtually no access to alcohol and that's not a huge problem for them or the prison, but if the prison has a clamp down on drugs and supply gets restricted then the place is like a tinderbox ready to explode.

I come from a family tree with more than it's fair share of alcoholics, several generations have all had at least one alcoholic in them, I rarely drink myself, although it's not unknown for me when I'm off work to have a mid morning beer or three, but that's it for the whole day, don't know if it's anything to do with the genes but that's the time I most want a beer.

One thing is, sometimes I feel like I really want a drink, I'm not thirsty, but it's almost like a mild craving, it's a most un-nerving feeling and luckily I don't need to act on it, I wouldn't want to be in the grip of anything that could control me like that.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

If you think that then your contribution to any drink or drugs thread should be valued as flawed.

Originally Posted by oxford

drug: a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body:

No difference between fags and booze and soft drugs. Obviously a considerable jump in levels of harm to crack but you know.
A friend of mine recently supped himself to an early grave, maybe it's not quite as addictive but he's just as dead.

I used to regularly partake in what is now a Class A drug (for reasons nobody in world can fathom), FAR less harmful and less chance of killing you than doing a bottle of vodka.

I don't really get what argument we're having here other than you trolling with inflammatory remarks.