child tax credits, child benifits etc.

[arc123]

*Yawns* as he awaits the next mind numbing contribution from arc123.

Oh the irony.

Why then would you choose to come straight on to a thread following your trip to Pakistan to request such information? It's like a legless man asking for a ball to kick around.

I haven't requested anything from you. I only asked if you had an opinion. It appears not.

Originally Posted by arc123

Oh the irony.

I haven't requested anything from you. I only asked if you had an opinion. It appears not.

Of course I don't!

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

DD and Well Oiled just hear me out for a second....(I hope firstly that you are aware of the devil's advocate element to this particular line I am adopting?)

Ok yes so many people would love to have kids. But is having kids the only reason people get married? If so I think that is very odd indeed. I know many couples who never considered having children at all and have very happy marriages. I have friends who tried and tried but medical advice told them maybe it's best to forget about it.The consideration to have kids should be much further along the line once a truly solid base has been established and that it can be seen that to have children would be an enriching contribution or addition to what they already have.

To appear shocked that I questioned the right for fertility treatment is a little strange also. Why, well let's face it such treatment is a relatively new development and before it, people would accept that much as they would like to,they were not going to be able to have children. In many cases leading them to the next best option which was adoption? A child is a child after all. I don't see that not being the sperm or egg provider negates the emotion and feelings one would have toward say an adopted child?

Oh aye - seen enough of your post to know many are truly tongue in cheek (and darned funny at times), but I think there are some serious points here.

I didn't get married just to have kids but once we were married we felt, like most people, that we wanted a family. No issues with those that don't. Our friends who had problems conceiving felt the same - and once they did decide to go for a family why should the technology to help them not be avalailable to them? If the fertility treatment doesn't work, sure - offer them the adoption route, but most of us want a family of our own, and if they can be helped, then it's a proper use of NHS funds IMO.

If they are fortunate enough that treatment works, as it did for our friends, then they should be treated the same as any other family - child credit and all.

You see by me not actually expressing a personal opinion ,some very valid points have been brought forward for consideration by other peeps.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

You see by me not actually expressing a personal opinion ,some very valid points have been brought forward for consideration by other peeps.

Don't be coy...

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by graemepaterson

Because it was their choice to take that path in life......others chose to take the path of education and inevitably better money, therefore they should be better off.

But as I'm sure you're well aware not everyone is cut out for higher and further education, I know I certainly wouldn't have been which is why I left school at 16, just because they have higher education doesn't automatically mean they should be ebtter off. Also not evryone that claims tax credits left school at 16 and started churning out children peoples situations cchange, kitkat is a prime example of that if you read her post. So should she and her children have to go without just because joe blogs next door has A levels or a degree in something? Surely their cost of living would be the same if not more than Joe Blogs next door as she has children to feed and clothe?

[northwind]

Here's one for the people who say "It gets abused, so take it away". Do you approve of punishing people for the actions of others in general? Do you want to be banned from mbiking because of a minority that ride dangerously? That's what you're proposing, of course benefits get abused, it'd be more expensive to prevent it than it is to allow it... But why punish people who need it, and who've done nothing wrong, because of that?

Originally Posted by northwind

Here's one for the people who say "It gets abused, so take it away". Do you approve of punishing people for the actions of others in general? Do you want to be banned from mbiking because of a minority that ride dangerously? That's what you're proposing, of course benefits get abused, it'd be more expensive to prevent it than it is to allow it... But why punish people who need it, and who've done nothing wrong, because of that?

well said that man

Originally Posted by timwilky

Hazel

I would not think of you as a scrounger, you sound typical of my argument. Work, earn a low salary and even pay tax on it. My argument against credits etc. they are complex and do nothing to help people out of poverty. Increasing the minimum wage and reducing the personal tax burden would do more, easier to implement and do away with bureaucracy.

People should be in a position to raise their families without the state directly intervening. The governments job should be to govern and set in place an environment that enables and encourages people to be independent.

I would love to be able to earn enough not to need tax credits. Now my husband that I left earns £45k that would do me lol

Originally Posted by graemepaterson

so you get the equivalent of £1290 a month after tax.......or looking at it another way thats the equivalent of a job paying around £21.5k salary a year (before tax).

I can appreciate you think that is fair, but not meaning to annoy anyone i think its utterly shocking.

This is by no means a dig at yourself but.........I know of people who have worked damn hard at college for 2 years, then ever harder at uni for 4 years, got in debt and then got a proffesional job to be on that amount........they then pay that much tax on that amount that they cant afford to buy a house or have kids..........the VERY VERY sad fact is, they would have been better off quiting everything after school at 16 and having 2 or 3 kids.

Now THAT is what is desperatley wrong with this countries systems.

when I left school only really clever people went to uni the rest of us went out and got a job. these days every buggar goes to college or uni. kids are even paid £30 a week to stay on at school when they have not a hope in hell of passing any exams.

I feel i worked and paid tax while these uni bods were having a rip roaring time drinking and partying. they are now earning loads of dosh - good for them. but I have done my bit for the economy by working and paying tax for last 25 years. I am not saying I feel entitled to the money but Im certainly not going to turn it down.

when we all retire to our state pension it would be nice for the rich to say "sorry we dont need to claim our state pensions because were already well off" BUT NO this will be claimed if needed or not, if the money is offer'd your going to take it arnt you and that goes for everyone.